LabMaster
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Posts posted by LabMaster
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2 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
No name; short discussion of rumor that Bloo is potentially doing a limited tour. Not sure if that is same rumor as suspension rumor.
Hearing Bloo is going back to a similar tour as last year.
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40 minutes ago, Just Wondering said:
Why not just have a CPA correct all this and move on! Could be done in a few days!
Like the Ben Affleck character in “The Accountant”? Don’t cross him!
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1 hour ago, GUARDLING said:
Alot of arenas used to allow this, I know many stopped for a few reasons. I'm sure some still may. What I used to do is let members work those places to help pay their dues. Much bigger donors are needed to support groups. One can work themselves to death and not make much sometimes. Exposure though at these places can certainly help.
I believe at the Pats, volunteers had to be over 21 because of beer sales. That limited having mm’s participate. It was hard to get a full compliment of help each week, but it was a good way to get $$. A decent amount too as I recall.
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Reading through a few posts regarding corporate sponsorships I can see the hesitation or skepticism that there is available funding there. There is, and to affirm some of the commentary and seeing an org I help out with the advice to take from it is;
start small and build your donation program. You will not find an angel who’ll just fund you completely. Smaller bites are more attainable.
Don’t rely on a single donor or revenue source. That’s basic 101. Diversify. Diversify through several donors and several different types of donors. If you are single sourced (as they say in my work life) and it falters or fails, you also falter or fail. Think Bingo!
it takes work and it takes working at it all year long. That’s where it should be viewed as a business. It also takes a team. That is why having a large BoD works, if it is functioning properly. Hence the challenge of a BoD. Functional, egos left at the door. And a diverse board, from a talent and skill standpoint. 40 people exactly alike doesn’t work.Thanks Ghost & Guardling for your thoughtful comments.
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4 hours ago, Gantang said:
You are clearly passionate, and I will not poo-poo your post, but I have some interesting (I hope) insight into this portion. First of all, there has to be a benefit to the corporation. Bill Cook was an outlier because he became passionate about the activity, AND he could write the check on his own volition. The marketing budgets for most companies are one of the smallest budget lines. If a corps can't demonstrate a strong ROI, the company has no incentive. My wife is a CEO and her marketing department is inundated by organizations with their hands held out looking for donations. The local United Way reached out their hand yesterday, but the 2023 community giving coffers are empty. There can be no more giving until January. There is a finite amount of money to be spread around.
DRUM CORPS IS A NON-ENTITY IN THE GRAND SCHEME
I was at a dinner earlier this year with the CEO of a $1.5 billion financial institution in a city with a DCI corps. I asked her if she was familiar with the organization. She wasn't, and she had never heard of drum corps. I explained the activity a bit and told her that her city arguably has the premier drum corps in the activity.
The CEO's financial institution is in Concord. Concord only has 126,000 people and Blue Devils has been on the major drum corps map since 1973. That's 50 years of publicity that the Devils have brought to Concord, yet they are not even a blip on the radar in their home city. Imagine how insignificant corps are to communities around the country. Corporate sponsorship is a pipe dream.
Sometimes just asking could do it. Had anyone from BD ever approached them? BAC has a great relationship with Putnam Investments. Maybe there is an employee in some corporations that could introduce a corps to the Corp. A former rifle worked for John Hancock Insurance and got a $10,000 donation one year. Other corporations give to local groups, supporting the arts. They may only need to be made aware of a corps.
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5 hours ago, DWW11 said:
This is going to sound snarky but i mean it with all due respect. If i wanted to find someone to talk to about writing/getting grants, i would simply start on the internet.
Not snarky at all. Is there any specific search to look for? Like grant writing (writers) in general? Are there grant writing companies like there are resume’ writing companies?
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5 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
a well run show depending on the venue rented, how many bands you get, and how organized the show committee is can make 10-15k. work to get donations from the community for food. sell a ton of ads for your QR code program. don't go gonzo on trophies. in my years administrating for a local circuit, the hosts were beyond organized, and made money even on bad weather days.
There! Exactly the detail I was hoping could be offered. Thanks very much.
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9 hours ago, HockeyDad said:
Pot meet kettle. You’ve provided zero detailed ideas (your words).
Because I asked other posters who may have knowledge or experience with revenue creation, to share details on how to, beyond simply throwing a general idea out there. Many posters throw out cost cutting ideas but not so much revenue creation. There is a lot of brain power on DCP that could teach others about revenue creation.
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10 hours ago, cixelsyd said:
While I included a little humor, these are all real-life revenue/fundraising ideas for drum corps.
I provided a couple of dozen because as SCV teaches us, and as you said in the OP, "Don’t rely on a small number of revenue providers.".
At the same time, I think everything should be on the table. If a corps has the ability and opportunity to operate a legal and profitable bingo, why should we tell them not to?
There are several ideas, good ones too, but some folks need details on how to go about putting it in action. Some folks get stuck and can’t get off square 1. Like how to you find grant opportunities. Where is that information? Where do you find pro grant writers. Where can you learn to write grants. There must be people who have experience in this.
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3 hours ago, cixelsyd said:
Run a bingo.
Sell candles.
Apply for grants.
Collect fees from members.
Collect fees from non-members for camps that double as educational clinics ("experience camps").
Expand the above idea virtually via online music lessons.
Collect fees from auditions to offset the cost of staging them; invest any surplus back into the corps.
Tweak above fees to ensure there is a surplus.
Run related youth programs (i.e. dance, drumline, band) in profit mode, and invest the proceeds back into the corps.
Buy/sell related equipment if it can be done at a profit, and invest the proceeds back into the corps.
Rent equipment out during the off-season while it would otherwise be unused.
If you have a corps hall and/or land, rent it out when the corps is not using it.
If you don't, consider investing in the above.
Solicit donations.
Host a show.
Host two shows.
Run a marching band circuit.
Run an event ticketing service.
Sell souvenirs at DCI shows.
Sell souvenirs via an online store.
Partner with other businesses such that a percentage of sales you generate go back to the corps.
Similar to the above, a corps-branded Visa or Mastercard where 1% of purchase amount is automatically donated to the corps.
Run concessions at a local sports venue; invest the proceeds back into the corps.
Run a pep band, drumline, etc., for a local sports team; invest the fees you collect back into the corps.
Run a custom music/motion entertainment service for corporate clients; invest the fees you collect back into the corps.
Move your corps to a suburban Chicago city, and talk their local government into sponsoring the corps. (Or maybe reverse the sequence of events there.)
Collect appearance fees from DCI.
Apply for DCI membership, to increase appearance fees and add revenue sharing.
Funny (not really). No help at all.
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Through many of these threads, an ever increasing amount, poster after poster complain, point out, espouse, blather, etc.,etc. on the pitfalls of corps and impending demise of drum corps. There are lots of shoulda’s; should regionalize tours, should cut down corps size, reduce the pit, reduce instrumentation, go back to traditional uniforms, reuse instruments, limit staff, limit trucks and busses, and so on. Cost cutting is great to demand. A very logical step and should be part of the year to year managing of a corps finances. But finance management is seriously lacking in many orgs. As we have seen. Basic financial management with constant checks and balances, is not every corps forte’ or their focus. Stating the obvious here.
What is missing in the cost cutting discussions, are ideas on revenue generation. Sustainable revenue generation and creation. Saving money is good but you need to make money to save it. Corps need help in creating sustainable revenue streams. Not short term revenue creation but long term. Diversifying the portfolio. Don’t rely on a small number of revenue providers. If one goes away, you are screwed.
There is a lot of brain power on DCP, can ideas be put forth? Real, achievable, ideas with details and steps outlined to be followed, to be successful. Don’t just say run a Bingo or sell candles. Maybe say apply for grants; “here is what you can put in for, and here is the best way to do it”.Reach out for corporate sponsors; “here is who are out there that align with youth activities”; or musical programs or theater production.
Providing detailed information may hopefully get to some orgs who haven’t looked deeper into revenue streams or maybe are aware what might be available.
So what detailed ideas can be shared?-
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3 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:
Respectfully, we're arguing over which is more rare when both are. BLS statistics say there were approximately 14k pro athlete jobs in 2022 with 9% job growth rate for the next 10 yrs vs 18k pro dance jobs (not just performer, but educator, choreographer and other non performer roles) with 5% growth rate. So young people who want to be on the stage may have to settle for other roles, and still probably not get decent benefits cause those are incredibly rare. Also, only one of these jobs averages at $22/hr wages. I'm guessing you all know which one. The other averages over $90k/yr.
And this is my concern, if drum corps is a pathway to professional dance, then it's not a solid one and it doesn't lead to a sustainable career with benefits for aging bodies for most marchers. These are statistics and my own qualitative experience. But sure, you can ignore this if you want to continue to lead young people on a wild goose chase. I'm just here with a little dose of reality, having lived it.
The value for colorguard performers needs a serious look. Has for a while.
I’m not arguing I’m only pointing out one simple comparison. That’s it. That it is statistically a much lower percentage of athletes making it to the pro level than other drum corps people become professional musicians, band directors and the like. I only mentioned guard to include other dc members. Not to specifically to make a point about becoming professional dancers no more than the pro athlete percentage comparison I referenced.
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3 hours ago, dbc03 said:
My original point is that nobody is doing drum corps to become a professional marcher. DCI is not filling the nonexistent niche of creating professional marchers.
You said "DC was just a fun thing to do and helped them with their future endeavors"
This is my point! It's a fun thing to do, not a professional development program. Yes, for band directors or musicians or dancers it's somewhat related and they can learn things that they apply to their profession, but that is not the point of the activity. If DCI goes away people will still be successful musicians, band directors, and dancers, it is not a requirement for any profession.
If DCI goes away people will find other fun things to do instead and that probably won't be some new summer marching band circuit, which is what the post I was originally responding to was proposing. There is no fundamental void that DCI is filling that will be filled by some other similar activity if DCI goes away.
Maybe you did get my point. I never said anyone would be a professional marcher. I said professional musician. Or dancer. Being in dc could help them achieve that more readily that being in high school sports and becoming a pro athlete.
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3 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:
And respectfully, my point, as someone who pursued the professional dance career route, is that finding a successful career in dance is just as bleak for most. Precious few make it to a professional dance company, and those that do find that such roles don't include benefits that even remotely cover damage done to the body. The vast majority of us have side gigs. And the vast majority of us don't last in the field. It's not a viable career direction for most, especially if you don't come from money or pedigree. Drum corps, if anything, would hold most back because the dance training in drum corps is far less developed than college programs; it's a big reason for so many injuries actually. I had to unlearn so many bad drum corps dance habits and Isee it every season when I watch shows.
Thus, my experience might disprove your theory that becoming a pro dancer is more straightforward than either athlete or musician via drum corps or otherwise. It's simply not, and arguably more difficult because the underlying dancer industry infrastructure is so flimsy. And in turn, it's not often the best route for young people to rely on. Again, all based in the lived experiences of myself and others in my career cohort.
If the chance of becoming a professional dancer is less than .023% then ok as that is the percentage of a high school athlete becoming a pro.
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41 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
Erm, but are those good career choices for young people? And by extension, should they be giving up as much time as they do in drum corps to pursue them? It really really didn't work out for me well. Nor my partner. And we were escorted through all of our arts programs, celebrated the whole way with scholarships and awards. Being a soloist and excellent colorguard teacher on top of that led me to think it might've been a viable career choice. Not to mention the debt and cost of this career choice without the jobs to pay it off afterwards.
We also found that we had extremely limited sustainable work skills by the end of it all. Excellent artists! But that only gets one so far. And the marching world either paid pennies or I was beholden to misogynistic tyrant directors. The transition to viable sustainable careers was, uh, let's just stick with "tough."
I'm not arguing against drum corps here. Just saying any youth programming should either be super transparent with young people just how fluffy and niche it is, or work harder on pipelining young people into the industry. Otherwise, one might be tempted to recommend young people do summer internships, apprenticeships, or more college instead.
Edit to add: naughty naughty going off topic. To be clear DB gets no love from my corner of DCP. She was staff coordinator at SCV 04, and most know how that went for some of us members and staff.
My point was that you have a better chance, through dc or band, of being a “pro” musician or dancer, than making it to the “Pro Athlete” level through athletic programs in towns or schools. The number of people making it as a pro athlete are less than one half of one percent, if even that much.
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39 minutes ago, dbc03 said:
You think that you are arguing against my original point when you are agreeing with it
Then you don’t understand my point if you think I’m agreeing.
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2 hours ago, dbc03 said:
What are your chances of becoming a pro marcher? or a marching scholarship?
There are more effecient ways to become a better player than doing drum corps.
Funny. Pro marcher. Ha ha. You don’t do drum corps specifically to become a pro. But you know that, you’re just being argumentative for the sake of arguing. There are many former DC people who go on to become pro teachers, musicians, choreographers. DC was just a fun thing to do and helped them with their future endeavors.
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14 hours ago, dbc03 said:
I don't think the desire for summer marching band is strong enough that something else will necessarily fill the niche if DCI dies. We're talking about an activity with what, 5000 kids currently? A good portion of those are college students making tremendous sacrifices to do this particular version of competitive summer marching band. If the experience is lessened there will be even less demand.
It's not like sports where you have the chance of going pro or getting a scholarship.
Your chances of becoming a musician or dancer are far better than becoming a pro athlete. You may even have a better chance of getting a scholarship for music or dance that getting one for sports too.
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12 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
So you had to hire a different bus company just for DCI Week? And with little time to compare prices?
Hate to think how much that added to expenses. Especially if more than one crew of drivers was needed due to number of hours they are allowed to drive per 24 hours
It appears the funds they had for the failing bus co. were “reallocated”. So possibly no money lost by not being able to shop around. Bus breakdowns would have more cost impact than making a change I would think. Plus it was in Indy (championship week). Less drive time needed at that point. Seems a right decision was made given the circumstances.
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2 hours ago, jwillis35 said:
I know, I messed that up...even though I was only joking. And of course now The Cadets are out for this coming season. 😞
But yes, Boston is one of my favs and I loved their show last year. In reality Boston will be top 2 to top 4 without a doubt. The top 4 from last year should be the top 4 this year. I don't see that changing even with SCV back (we think).
I know. I was just joking with you. I appreciate your commentary during the season. It’s always balanced and fair. Just wanted to be sure you didn’t forget them lol. Sad about Cadets and hope there isn’t another to sit out as the rumor is out there.
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1 hour ago, denverjohn said:
I would be interested to see the d.c.i. rule book that defines which vehicles are defined as trucks and (to be fair) the square footage would have to be equal for each corps so Tony DiCarlo could fly out to each corps spring training with tape measure in hand.
Gonna need a bigger truck. I’m guessing there isn’t anything in the DCI rule book governing the definition of a truck.
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37 minutes ago, Slingerland said:
Yes, you could go to a 4 week season starting July 10 or so, lowering bus costs and food costs. It'll still take 3 weeks to teach the show, so no effect on pre-tour costs (which are typically $25-50,000). A short season would also reduce the number of performances, which means that many fewer opportunities to do the thing that the members of the corps routinely list in the DCI end of season survey as the primary reason why they do drum corps in the first place - to perform.
Here's my guess; if the entire activity went to Heartland or any of the other charter companies and said "hey, now we're only going to need your services for 5 weeks in stead of 8", the charter companies would likely not reduce the cost all that much, since it would make it harder for them to find other opportunities to fill those missing weeks. You might reduce the number of nights on the road by 30% for no more than a 10% drop in the overall expense. Why? Because they can.
Corps weren’t on the road for 8 weeks last year. 6 for most. Fewer for others.
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1 hour ago, RiverCityAndTroopersFan said:
Yes
shrink the tour.
It’s already been shrunk. Last season was 6 weeks long. Shorter for some corps. Number of shows also was reduced. Look back. That is a small part of the answer. Why don’t we offer more money generating ideas? Not just lip service. Real executable achievable ideas.
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39 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:
It is important that we understand where we are and how we got here, if we want the Cadets and similar corps with us perennially.
Drum corps have been taking years off, or folding permanently, for as long as there have been drum corps. That is the nature of things when an organization relies on charitable fundraising. When that charity fades, or when costs escalate beyond its ability to keep up, the corps cannot continue. Meanwhile, new corps might form just as often as old corps fail. For many years, that is how things went.
That all changed in the 1970s. Why? Because that is when the cost of operating a competing drum corps shifted from "under control" to "escalating". Some of that was self-inflicted. The one major activity response to the situation (the formation of DCI) was to add more costs. DCI was founded to make touring sustainable. Fifty years later, you can certainly claim they did that - but only for a limited number of corps. What did that do for the rest?
DCI was formed by the richest/most ambitious corps, to serve the richest/most ambitious corps. Only the richest/most ambitious corps have ever had voting power on their decisions. As a result, DCI has spent their 50 years with an institutional bias toward creating more self-inflicted cost escalation that the richest/most ambitious corps thought they could afford. Fifty years later, you can certainly claim they could afford it all - but only a limited number of corps. What did that do to the rest?
I think I will stop there, because if this does not sink in... well, we are sunk.
Please go back and look at the charter corps of DCI. I challenge you to prove they were all the richest corps serving the richest corps. Boston for one was far from rich. And within a few short years some of those corps were no longer around or were struggling. That alone confirms they were not all rich. Please let’s not have revisionist history here.
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Cadets Suspend for 2024
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Other than wildfires, mudslides and earthquakes.