[2016 Rule Congress proposals]

totally agree the members are the primary focus - but without an audience there is no performance. So, both are critical to the essence of the activity.

I disagree. We ran rehearsals on Thursday nights before the Friday football game, in the stadium, under the lights. The only people there were the staff and some parents who came early to pick up their kids. We put on some unreal performances on those nights, some of which made the director cut practice off 30 minutes early. We didn't care that there wasn't an audience, we only cared that 1) WE knew we had nailed our own individual performance, and 2) we knew what it sounded like. The audience always amps up a performance, obviously, and there is no economic viability of the activity without one. But you can perform in a vacuum and still know how well you performed based on your own self-evaluation.

[2016 Rule Congress proposals]

Funny thing is the county just upped my property tax assessment. It is now up to me to prove otherwise. They provided none, just a letter demanding more taxes :(

This happened to us in 2007, in the middle of the housing collapse, and what happened relates to this discussion. My wife (Electrical Engineering degree from Ga Tech and an MBA from Ga State) put together all the figures from a dozen comps, including recent home sales in the area showing a DECLINE in home values, not an increase. If the face of her rebuttal, they said that their algorithm for determining assessment figures was "complicated." She informed them of her academic credentials and said, "Try me." They then had to admit that the increase or decrease in assessed value of homes HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH CURRENT MARKET VALUE OF PROPERTIES!!!! It was an arbitrary decision based on need/political will. After several dozen similar confrontations over the next 12-14 months, the tax assessor's office completely changed the methodology for assessing home values and property taxes dropped 15-20% across the county, matching the drop in development and sales in the home building industry.

The moral of the story: ulterior motive. I question why this change is needed in the face of an underwhelming amount of evidence showing unavoidable harm to judges and "visual clutter" to fans eyes.

[1.5 Billion Dollar Powerball. How many drum corps do you start?]

First: don't take the annuity option. The rate of return they give you is crap. You can make 10X more investing in safe mutual funds AND have access to $625 million in two weeks. You spend 15% and save 85% and you live off of $25 million in income for life without ever touching the principle.

Second: I'd invest a portion of the money to cover all rights fees for all of DCI and DCA every year. Let anybody play anything they want.

Third: I'd set aside the same percentage for my favorite DCI and DCA corps as I do for other charitable entities. That would mean $9 million up front and $500,000 per year forever.

In case you're wondering, I've been a corporate accountant for 20 years and I have a spreadsheet that calculates every amount about winning the lottery. I did it on a dare about 8 years ago and I update it every few months. If you tip the guy who sold you the winning ticket 0.2% of your take home after taxes, that would be over $ 1 million.

[Stanford Band at it again...]

Apparently, The Rose Bowl is a home game for Stanford? They were banned from going to away games for this entire academic year (2015-2016) because of violations of the school's policies. See below:

The Stanford University marching band will not be allowed to travel to road games for one year after a university investigation found the band had violated multiple school policies, the school announced Friday [Editor’s note: Friday, March 2, 2015].

"Violations included a tradition in which a band member was given an alcoholic concoction intended to make that individual vomit publicly; an annual trip in which some band members used illegal substances; and a band selection process in which individuals were asked a number of inappropriate questions on sexual matters," the school said.

I grew up in a place and time where college marching band equaled the Georgia Redcoat Band and the Jacksonville State Marching Southerners. You won't find two better programs anywhere. JSU's long time director Dr. David Walters passed away last week, leaving behind a four decade legacy of turning out music educators, performers, and just plain fantastic people. THOSE are college bands. I just wish Cal's football team would run over the Stanford band EVERY year!

[2015 CD's are here!]

Speaking of fixes. Finals night the Crown soloist had a mic issue that left him pretty quiet on the feed. I'm wondering if that was fixed for the CD. I ordered mine but had them shipped to the house. I'm visit family until January at this point.

I specifically listened to Crown to check on this. It sounds like they used the semis performance because his solo is very clearly amplified the entire way through.

[2015 CD's are here!]

Can you elaborate more on this? What do you find unimportant in drum corps that the corps and judges nowadays admire?

I spent 45 minutes typing a reply and then hit one wrong button and *poof* it was gone.

I'll just say this: what I like about drum corps (dominant horn lines, jazz, cool drum lines, equipment work, reinventing and replaying beloved songs) was phased out about 5 years ago it seems. I have 30+ years of cd's full of what I liked, and that will do. Today's DCI is for a generation that grew up with YouTube, winter guard, and Bb horns. That's not my style.

[2015 CD's are here!]

I still get lots of power from brass lines.today. I know BD parted my hair this summer as did Crown. But i honestly disagree that a lot of the stuff today calls for RMFL like it used to.

you refer to 80 SOA...well, with the rules then, the gun had gone off so performance judging was over. Just blow baby blow! It was all about GE. Different time, different system now

It was the opener, not the closer I was referring to. And it is a different system now, and one I just don't like. The entire judging guide rewards all the elements I used to ignore in a show. Guess it just boils down to the fact that I don't like the way the activity works these days. They've basically shut all the high school kids out of it, they've made it so expensive that most kids can't afford it, and the shows require too much "thought" to enjoy. I'll leave it to you guys who can tolerate it. I'm out.

[A Pseudo-intellectual on the K-Pop break]

Look at the anger and frustration in this post, above. Marching members aren't taught how to analyze design. They're taught only to execute. Think about it. Drum corps is not a creative art form for the participants, only for the designers.

It's' true. We never ask marching members to create or question design, only to perform as instructed. As a result, you see comments like this where marching members are absolutely mystified and threatened when it comes to the very most basic design analysis. They call design analysis an "intellectual" pursuit. Doesn't have to be. Design analysis is not that hard, but to someone who has been taught only to execute, and not to question the artistic intent behind the music or show design, and taught that cleanliness is their only focus, then of course they have no ability to analyze what they're performing.

Sadly, most marching members are literally executing a performance art piece and they have no idea why. No idea what the meaning behind the show is. This is antithetical to the nature of the art of performance. For example, a pop composer has a creative impulse, writes lyrics and music to support that idea, and a song is born. He owns it. But in drum corps, someone else creates music with meaning, and marching members robotically execute it, and sometimes don't even understand it. That's just bizarre.

Marching members are watching other corps' performances and have no idea what they're watching, and get frustrated at the idea of having to research the artistic impulse behind a design element.

Sister Wendy, that crazy nun, walks around interpreting famous paintings. In her eyes, each element reveals a specific intent by the painter. She gives credence to the idea that the artist has a specific intent and his choices are conscious and meaningful. Drum corps design is the same way. For the most part, design decisions support the meaning behind the music, and each element reveals a specific intent by the designer.

I'm always shocked when drum corps participants think that show design elements are random or not worth researching. It's like, have you ever written anything? Have you ever composed music? Have you ever written or produced a film or a play? Created a collage? Selected a color pallete? Taken a class in art appreciation? And the answer is, of course not. (Now someone with a binary thought process, likely a drummer or musician will chime in here that not 100 percent of design decisions are objective, representational or conscious choices. Yay, congratulations. But most design choices are conscious creative choices, or at least influenced subconsciously by the theme. Create a drum corps show with completely randomly designed elements and I'll show you a corps in 43rd place.)

Drum corps attracts people who are essentially robots who execute, not creative thinkers. Drum corp attracts people who blindly execute music and drill. Drum corps draws people who get headaches when presented with design analysis.

Look at this message board. Very few here understand depth of concept, which is on the score sheet. Cadets created a frivolous show last year with absolutely no depth of concept, and binary thinkers on here couldn't understand why it didn't win despite its masterful execution. Most of the discussion on here is how ZYZ corps needs to really "execute" a lot better. Or how so and so's score will be a lot better once they "execute" XYZ better. And then people are mystified when their show doesn't score better than another closely scoring show with a stronger depth of concept. It's so laughable. There's little or no attention paid to why the music was selected, why the kids are performing this choice of music, and how the choreography, drill sets or choice of music supports a theme and how that impacts the score in a big way. Because that analysis requires critical thinking. That requires a creative mind. That requires the marching members to ask the show designers why they chose the elements they did. But that's regarded as insubordination.

A note to marching members, if you really want to select a corps with a winning show design, and if you really want to score well on your depth of concept, rise up! Ask the hard questions! Ask about your show concept! Ask about your depth of concept!

1) What's the meaning behind this music?

2) Who chose this music and why?

3) How do the drill sets, action and choreography support the theme?

4) Is the selected theme something you subscribe to? Something you agree with? Something with depth, humor, drama and humanity?

5) Did the person choosing the music consider you when they chose it?

6) Was this music selected simply because there's no royalty due?

7) Do the designers represent your vision?

8) Do your designers avoid discussion about why a piece of music was selected? Or give frivolous responses to questions about the meaning behind the music like "color" or "tempo or "volume"?

9) Do your designers talk more about color palette and frivolous associations that the music has, rather than on its social context, the intent of the composer or its historical context or its application to your theme? If so, it's a big red warning flag. And not a cool flag with another flag rolled up underneath it.

Again, this intellectual crap is why I can barely stand drum corps now. If they MM's are just robots following orders, why the hell should anyone march!?!?!?!? If the show is so #### high-minded that the PERFORMERS CAN'T GRASP IT, it's time for the designers to take a hike.

[2015 CD's are here!]

some of the loudest moments of 46 years of fandom have come with Bb horns that were played well, in tune and not overblown. And then some were the scouts which had a little bit of everything

Exactly....when those Bb horns are played in tune with proper support, pushing a bunch of air, and the chords are balanced, the cumulative impact is more than loud enough to impress.

loud for the sake of loud isn't good. that's what DCI has become...and I applaud it

I'm not talking about loud for the sake of loud... I'm talking about loud where loud is REQUIRED, not suggested. Listen to the final chord of Georgia SOA 1980. That's a perfectly balanced chord, it's just played at fffff instead of fff. I watched/listened to every one of the top 15 corps this year 4 times, once live at the Ga Dome and then all three shows of finals week. Maybe once did I hear a horn line play what I would consider ffff, and no one touched fffff. And you can't tell me there weren't moments where it called for it. Read the link I posted a week ago. The G bugles had more dynamics to their sound and they projected better. Listen to the Caballeros alumni corps... those people aren't half the musicians that Crown/BD/Cadets are, but they sound like all three hornlines put together.

Maybe I just prefer the days when part of the allure of the brass line was how powerful it felt and sounded. I only heard that once this year: Crown's closer. You used to hear it once or twice from every corps.

[2015 CD's are here!]

Has much less to do with the build of the instruments and a ton more to do with the way they are being played.

I beg to differ. If you don't have memories of getting your face blown off by 64 G bugles, you don't realize how weak modern Bb horns sound. Read this, it's an excellent reference on the difference between G bugles and today's horns.

http://www.drumcorpsworld.com/?p=5433%C2'>

[Show Meanings]

Between two closely-scoring corps, no judge will award a show first place to the show that has the weaker depth of concept. It's the clincher among top-scoring corps. It's what vaults a corps to the top spot. It's what provides the emotion and lasting meaning to move the audience. A corps with a strong theme, pattern and meaning will defeat a closely-scoring corps without. It's the nature of the art form. Story, theme, meaning and pattern will always trump jukebox-style production design between closely scoring corps. Substance always trumps lack of meaning. And yes, shows with a stronger depth of concept can trump better-executing scores. Depth of concept is that powerful.

And this is exactly why I don't like DCI much anymore. Why does a show have to have a d*mn concept?!?!?!? Best show I ever saw was '86 Devils. The show concept was "Compared to us... you suck."

[DCI CD's no longer available?]

There have been many corps over the decades who have not played while marching.

But not an entire show, and that's my point. What happens in bad weather when it's not safe to march? They play a standstill or go indoors and play. I've never seen a show where the staff said "Well, let's not play and just march." This is just my opinion, but I heard the USMC Drum Corps in 1987 play on stage at the auditorium where they were hosting the awards presentation for our spring band competition. So much of the impact of the USMCDC is their incredibly tight military drill, but that night nobody cared that it was a standstill concert without marching. They blew the doors out of that place and had 1500 high school kids going nuts!

Maybe it's the fact that I've spent a good part of the last 27 years listening to DCI Finals performances from 1972-2005, music only. Maybe it also has something to do with my photographic memory (which used to be MUCH better!) and the fact that I could "see" the show in my head while listening to the music. Maybe it has something to do with giving up the G bugles and that unique sound that I loved. Whatever... if the music is going to be less and less of a focus, I'll support the activity by seeing live shows and just go back and listen to the 30+ years of recordings where the music was the thing.

[DCI CD's no longer available?]

I was like that during the 90s: I listened to 70s-90s shows a TON more than I would watch them (mostly, I think, because of how easy it was to listen in a walkman, car stereo, etc vs. on a TV).

But when Cavaliers kind of revolutionized show design to emphasize visual, I stopped caring so much about just the music: just listening to a show, especially a modern show, is only half of the production and it really feels like you're missing out on stuff. It's better than nothing, sure, but I very rarely just listen to drum corps shows now. In fact, buying some of the Essentials blu-rays, and Legacy DVDs of old favorites, I've noticed more stuff about the visual aspects of shows that I knew musically inside/out: I feel like I've gotten to know those shows more taking the time to watch them on DVD or Blu.

*sigh* and that's where I started liking DCI less and less. The visuals are usually cool, but if you can't close your eyes and get into the music, what's the point? I've said before that I've seen hundreds of performances with a corps standing still and playing and I've yet to see one where they march and don't play.

[DCI CD's no longer available?]

Here's my deal with cd's vs. dvd's... I listen to drum corps 1000x more than I watch it. I listen in the car, at work, while I'm doing yard work, etc... I've always been more about the music than the visuals. I really just want cd's of the music now and I'll wait months or years before I care about watching the shows.

[Why is this HS Band show better designed than half the 2015 top 12?]

And an art film director would say that summer blockbusters are horribly boring compositions as well. But since DCI has to fund their own circuit, they don't have the luxury of tax dollars to try whatever the designers dream up. (And while I get that the top tier BOA bands have massive DCI crossover, once you start going down the ranks you will find a lot of bands that will make one rethink letting designers have completely free reign...)

Mike

Along this same idea, the Oscar winner for Best Film rarely ever goes to the highest grossing film of the year, and the best films rarely ever gross much. Titanic, Return of the King, and Forrest Gump are the only such films in the last 20 years. I would equate that to the best show design does not always get the biggest crowd response, and the most crowd-friendly show doesn't always score well.

[Recaps 2000-2003]

Gee. Thanks, Dude. I was looking and ran across a bunch of junk I've hoarded over the years. I wasted an hour.

Anyway, I found the official judges' recap for Finals 2001 (with each caption10+10 breakdown). I'll figure out something... I have no scanner.

You got a phone with a camera?

[Suncoast Sound 1988]

1993 Cadets show was boring? Wow. I'll just chalk this whole post up to false memories

For probably 10 years, I never listened to Cadets or Star when I listened to '93 cd's. They just didn't appeal to me, especially compared to Phantom and BD. It wasn't until a decade later that I began finding something to like about those two shows. I still prefer Phantom's music to what Cadets and Star played. It is strictly a matter of personal taste/appeal.

[Favorite final Finals performances?]

Ah, gottcha. Maybe GR's final FINAL (or FINAL finals) performance?

I can respect that! Can't believe he's been gone that long...

I think, in a very real way, Vanguard was a different corps going forward after '92. They moved on, but a very big part of what SCV was went with Gail. RIP

[Physical Health in Drum Corps and Synthetic Marching Fields...]

Oh the irony. Those who know the history of college football in this country, ( or decide to read up on it now ) know that the southern states actually banned football on their high school and college campuses with a sport that began in the northeast colleges. For years, the current SEC states disallowed football as a sport at their college . They once told us that football participation at their school " would never happen ".. because they intended to continue to ban it at their schools... forever. They considered the sport of football to be too dangerous. Some participants actually died in the early years of college football games that at the time were exclusively played entirely in the northeast, So as a result, early in the sport, many southern states colleges swore that this new sport of college football would never be allowed to be played at their colleges there in the South ( anyone can look this up, if they are so inclined ). We know now however how that.." its just not going to happen " ( ie, football to be played at colleges in the South ) emphatic proclamation eventually played out. And so.., what irony, huh ?

Fast forward to today, and we hear in some quarters that football will not be banned or severely curtailed. This is heard in some regions of the Country too where we were once told that tobacco would never be banned or curtailed..... or smokers negatively impacted with their continued use of it because of " massive participation " of tobacco in the local economy, and so forth. Those who think that the medical science research that is increasingly showing the long team cognitive impairments caused by concussions in football won't have a possible negative effect on football participation in the South ( or anyplace else ) remind me of the tobacco industry... just like these schools and universities in the current SEC states that once banned football there and told us at one time that football banning on their college campuses would last forever there in the South. But those who know a little about the history of football, tobacco and other things know that when people tell us something " will never happen " because of its current acceptance and popularity in a region oftentimes don't know how attitudes have oftentimes changed in time. We are already receiving data recently that shows that Pop Warner youth football participation rates during the the last 4 consecutive years have fallen nationally. Mothers make these decisions usually. And if Mom from her readings thinks her Son might do damage to his long term memory, cognitive abilities, etc, one would be a bit naive not to read the tea leaves on what this likely means to the sport of football in the coming decades... and yes, even there in the South.

You are talking about ancient history... I'm talking about modern history, since the 1950's.. Up there, football is still a game. Down here, it's as much a religion as where everyone goes on Sunday. Now, I'm not saying it's GOOD that it's this way, just that it is.

By the way, did tobacco disappear? No, I still see people under the age of 30 smoking every day, and they've been told their entire lives how bad it is for them. The same thing applies to football... they're willing to take the risk in order to play the game. Also, don't overestimate the power of "Mom" to decide what sports Junior does or does not play. Usually mom doesn't get to tell dad what his son is or isn't going to play. A lot of moms think their kid will be the one to make it to the NFL and bring home all that money and get them out of poverty. If you've never experienced a football season in a small rural community in the south, then you really don't understand. You don't have a frame of reference to compare. It's all they have and the more you try to convince them to quit, the more determined they are to play.

[Physical Health in Drum Corps and Synthetic Marching Fields...]

This was the history of my school band as well. During the 2nd quarter the stadium will slowly fill up. After the bands halftime show, the place was a ghost town. Our football team was not very good.

I guess my high school was an oddity. We had a nationally known championship band from the mid '60's through the early '80's. At the same time, the football team recorded 53 consecutive winning seasons. We had full stands for every game from kickoff through the start of the third quarter. If the score of the game was out of hand (and it often was a 20 or 30 point lead at halftime) everyone would stay to see the band, and then some would start trickling out during the second half. At one point, over 33% of the students were either in the band, on the football team, or were cheerleaders. That was with an enrollment of 1000 kids.

[Physical Health in Drum Corps and Synthetic Marching Fields...]

I live a couple of miles from Kennesaw Mountain HS. They have won the AAA national title at BOA twice, most recently last year. I attended a football game there just recently and was shocked. The football program stinks and the fans go out to show support for the kids, but the game is unwatchable. The band is there out of obligation. Their halftime performance was barely 5 minutes, and it was seriously lacking in effort. The entire event hardly seemed worth the time and money. I believe in situations like this, the marching band could survive without football, but at the same time, there are less than 140 members in the band out of an enrollment of over 2100 students. Participation rates aren't very high anyway.

There are only, what... 100 or 150 programs that could exist without football as a means of support? 95+% of high school bands would disappear without football halftimes to play. If it costs $300-$500 to march WITH support from football games, how much would it cost to march WITHOUT IT? I doubt there would be more than 5 bands in the entire state of Georgia without football.

That being said, there is no fear of football disappearing in the south. It's just not going to happen. Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Texas... these states have MASSIVE high school football participation because so much of the small community structure is built around "Friday night lights." Kids may wait longer to start playing, but by middle school, there will be football.

[Master list of edits on the Blu-Ray/DVD's]

One of the composers of the second piece Phantom did (the gladiator battle) objected to how his music was presented and withdrew his permission, so roughly half of that song had to be removed. DCI actually did a very good job with the edit, and if you hadn't seen the original show, you'd be hard pressed to notice.

Mike

Wait... he pulled his permission AFTER he got his money??? Isn't that a finalized contract? How does one get to do a "do over" on a signed contract???

[Master list of edits on the Blu-Ray/DVD's]

I was wondering if anyone had compiled a complete list of all the edits and cuts made to the DVD/Blu-Ray packages over the last several years. Obviously the big ones are Phantom 2008 and Madison 2011, but I know there have been several smaller instances, especially where corps have used samples like Cavies' Mad World and Cadets' 12.25.

I have not purchased any recent video packages but given the uncertain and precarious copyright situation I am thinking about trying to catch up...just would like to know the little things I'll be missing out on. Thanks to any and all who can shed some light here.

I was out of the loop back then... what about Phantom 2008 needed editing????

[Master list of edits on the Blu-Ray/DVD's]

Maybe the corps' overall performance was so good it merited the Finals' run, warts and all?

I've always felt the recordings were meant to record, for posterity, THE ACTUAL EVENTS THAT HAPPENED! It's not a "DCI Finals Week's Greatest Hits" recording. It's a recording of what happened on Finals night. If you don't want something ugly on there... nail your performance.

I'm sure Buckner would like to splice video of him properly fielding a ground ball into the 1986 World Series Game 6 tape... but it happened, and it's there.

One set of the '89 cd's has the actual Finals show of BD, frack and all. I like having both.

[Cadets Guard vs. Crown Percussion]

Drum Corps didn't start in 1972 just like the NFL didn't start in that 1966-1970 Merge era or Basketball in 1976. Cadets and Cavaliers have more titles than the Blue Devils. Blue Devils are front runners now like Cavaliers and Cadets and SCV were years ago. Things change, maybe we'll see a Bluecoats or Crown era in the near future!

How about this as a compromise: modern drum corps, as a 100% artistic endeavor, started with DCI in '72. Until then, under the various AL and VFW rules, it was part military display and part art. Maybe we start at the point where you no longer had to go through inspection? Or, how about we start when marching over age members was no longer a common thing? Sometimes events happen that make a natural, obvious dividing point in things. The NFL-AFL and NBA-ABA mergers are perfect examples. The leagues that emerged from those mergers played a very different game than the NFL and NBA had prior to that. The passing game from the AFL took over offenses in the NFL. It made the game more exciting, it led to higher scoring, and it appealed to more fans. The post-ABA NBA featured a more wide-open game as well, with more scoring, showcasing better athletes and preparing the league for the Bird/Magic era. Relaxing the rigid rules from the AL/VFW days allowed more artistic freedom and opened up drum corps to new fans and new participants.

You can't compare eras in drum corps, just like football or basketball... too many changes to the actual gameplay have happened to make that possible. There is the pre-DCI era and the DCI era. Blessed Sacrament won both VFW and AL titles in '58, but do they compare to the 2014 Blue Devils? No, because the activity was 95% different from one era to the other.