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ContraFart

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Everything posted by ContraFart

  1. ContraFart
    Apparently my opinion is not valid about subjective competition. Its either I agree with the outcomes or I am wrong in whatever reasoning I use regardless of how educated or uneducated it may be. If the only recourse to show my discontent is to stop buying tickets/merchandise, then its a false choice. But if you are going to stay on your high horse and say your infinate wisdom is absolute and reward shows that fans don't think should be rewarded, then we will start to go away.
  2. ContraFart
    In 2007 did BD not have a head to head win over Cadets prior to finals week? (Actually I think BD won more head to head match ups that season even though they did not meet up that often. It was a lopsided season with finals being out west) In 2011 did Cadets not have a head to head win over BD prior to finals week (They were neck and neck within .05 but cadets pulled away at the end and that is after they had to rewrite a whole bunch of drill to accommodate an injured snare drummer)? In both cases the corps that won Saturday night won the rest of the week. I would call 2008 a toss up since Phantom never won a head to head match up until finals night. 2013 is close to a toss up because if my memory serves me correctly Crown only won a couple head to head match ups prior to semis. In 2009 I think Crown had a more difficult and engaging product. In fact it's by far my favorite Crown show and one of my top 5 favorite shows ever.
  3. ContraFart
    If scores are as volatile to subjective opinion as you say, isn't any opinion valid?
  4. ContraFart
    2007 and 2011 were not toss ups. BD and Cadets respectively won all 3 nights of championships and won head to heads prior to finals week. 2013 may be more valid but the scores were following a trajectory. The only year that I think a toss up was really against BD was 2008. As for 2012, In think you are right. Crown had the most difficult drill ever written so the fact I could not be 100% clean meant a less relatable and easier to clean product could win. We will have to agree to disagree about 2009.
  5. ContraFart
    But I think its easier for you to accept than me because your theoretical preference wins more often than not.
  6. ContraFart
    It answers the second question, not the first. (BTW I think BDs concept in 2010 was so different and well done it needed to win, 2012 Crown had the most difficult drill ever written so it would never be clean, 2014 BD was technically perfect. I really just disagree with 2009 and 2015) But the point I am trying to make is that a different panel could have given a different result to almost any Saturday night (except maybe 2014) so how is that integrity of competition? And if the competition isn't important, then remember that every time BD introduces themselves as the 18 time DCI champions.
  7. ContraFart
    Cappy let me ask you another question. Would you still think the judges were getting it right to a reasonable level if BD finished 2nd instead of first all the years they won over the past decade?
  8. ContraFart
    I was using a random example and broadening the scope. The .2 number is in theory, but still plausible. Let me ask you a question. Do you think any combination of judges still would have had BD over Crown in 2015? Or to use an example that may more emotional to you, Phantom over BD in 2008? Or would a different panel yield a different result?
  9. ContraFart
    It should reasonably effect the integrity for everyone, it just effects the integrity less to those who agree with the outcome. This activity is asking its judging community to do the impossible. Judges have compare different musical styles, different marching techniques, different difficulty and athletic levels to come up with a score that will say that corps A is better than corps B. So far all this thread taught me is that judges will judge to the criteria of the sheet, but its perfectly acceptable that their own bias can effect the score and that consistently is not only not a goal, it almost seems frowned upon. The goal of any governing body of any competitive circuit should be fairness to its competitors. Is it fair to be within .2 of a championship then know you have no chance because of the judge list? I understand art is subjective. There are no common techniques required and there are no required elements that will create any objective link, but if you cannot in theory duplicate the results of any given competition, there is a problem with your scoring system.
  10. ContraFart
    But it effects the integrity of the competition and I have an issue with that.
  11. ContraFart
    If that is the case the name on the judging sheet has more weight than the performance on the field.
  12. ContraFart
    Polling is about predicting, DCI is a direct evaluation How do you know it was not an error? Therein lies the problem. There is so much fluidity and volatility, there is no way to be confident in the score, hence accusations of favoritism and conspiracy. I will use the example again. Take this years semis performance and tell them it was the finals performance and give them the finals scores. Will they know that the video they are watching had SCV .2 ahead in guard and .2 ahead in vis prof? Or will they defend BD up .3 in Guard and a perfect score in vis prof (a whole .6 point difference)? No. Because the scores once on paper create a confirmation bias.
  13. ContraFart
    Now I think you are disagreeing with me just to disagree.
  14. ContraFart
    A 2.5% error (which is .5 in a single caption) is not tolerated in any industry I know of.
  15. ContraFart
    I dont disagree with your premise. BD has a very smart and thriving organization, but its not like they exist in a vacuum. Other corps I am sure have tried to emulate their success without the same success. There are factors that make BD unique that cannot be replicated and geography is one of them. Do you think the Colts can support the same business model in the middle of IA?
  16. ContraFart
    I think geography has something to do with it.
  17. ContraFart
    I was referring to 2016
  18. ContraFart
    I thought Saturday night was better. See how personal bias can effect outcomes?
  19. ContraFart
    Its not surprising, its frustrating. BD has all of the advantages and seems to get all of the benefit of the doubt. In the end it seems that corps that want to win have to work 100 times harder than BD which makes it look like BD doesn't work at all.
  20. ContraFart
    I don't expect absolute perfection, I just want to be able to trust the number that I am seeing is not subject to bias or favoritism. Why are you dead against consistency being a goal, even if absolute consistency is unattainable?
  21. ContraFart
    Or how many Crown fans that day they got robbed in 09, 12 or 15?
  22. ContraFart
    And I am sorry but that is just not acceptable to me. Especially since the results seem to favor one drum corps over another.
  23. ContraFart
    But how many would say that Saturday night was not as good as Friday night, unless they had the scores to support their confirmation bias? If people viewed Friday night thinking it was Saturday night and only had the scores from Saturday night, would they disagree with the scores, since the performance on the field in reality yielded a different result than the scores in front of them did?
  24. ContraFart
    But dont total swings count? SCV went from +.2 to -.3 in a single night which is a .5 swing. Would that be considered in that .4 to .6 margin?
  25. ContraFart
    I already said I stood corrected at that previous statement. However the same thing happened last year with Crowns guard and the head to head was even or had crown ahead by one coming into championship week. IMO Crowns guard had the run of lifetime on Saturday night, yet still lost only on Saturday night. It still does not address the premise. If judging in and of itself if so fluid that 2 panels will not score the same exact show the same on the exact same night (which was mentioned in this thread) then what weight to the scores actually have? Why is consistency among panels not even a goal?
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