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ContraFart

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Everything posted by ContraFart

  1. ContraFart
    If scoring is nothing more than a wink and a nod, then we can't exactly call it fair competition.
  2. ContraFart
    Again lets run the experiment of a judge viewing the Friday night performance knowing only the Saturday night scores and thinking they are viewing Saturday night. Would the guard judge agree with the scores, or would they even know that the outcome was different?
  3. ContraFart
    But in other competitions, the object is to mitigate that frailty to have the most even competition possible. If you read this thread that doesn't seem to be a goal at all and we should accept these variances as the infinate wisdom of the judges.
  4. ContraFart
    If it is that volitile, then how can we call DCI a fair competition?
  5. ContraFart
    Hence my organal complaint
  6. ContraFart
    Is there a critique after finals night? No. When do the scoring anomalies happen in which I refer to? Finals night? When do scores count the most? Finals night. So is there a mechanism to challenge a score which you do not agree with that might cost you a medal or a caption award? No.
  7. ContraFart
    Let me put it this way Lets say we created an experiment where we showed judges the semis performance of SCV and BD and gave judges the scores from the finals performance. Would there be disagreements in the captions SCV won on Friday but did not win on Saturday because the video they would be watching is of SCV winning those captions, or would there just be a defense of the finals scores since that is what they think the wisdom of the judges was?
  8. ContraFart
    But read it in context with the rest of the statement. But honestly what can a score really mean if I have no idea how it was created? Did the corp have a bad night? Did the judge only look at side B the entire show? If its as fluid as you say, I have no point of reference to put any amount of faith into any score.
  9. ContraFart
    I was speaking in reference to the environmental factors
  10. ContraFart
    But if the performing groups and the judges are both fluid, then scores mean nothing. You keep trying to square a circle by saying that judges adhere to the sheets while at the same time saying no 2 judging panels will score a show the same way. You defend inconsistency by just chalking it up to human error. Either drum corps is a competition or a commented art exhibition where personal biases are expected. In order for there to be integrity to the competition, there has to be some sort of trustable consistency. Can there be slight variences in this consistency? Yes, but not half a point in a single caption on consecutive nights at the same venue when the performance level did not change in any meaningful way.
  11. ContraFart
    But those factors apply evenly to each group. If there is more risk is a book that is exposed due to the environment, then achievement score should be effected but content score should not. But my original example is based on championship week where the conditions do not change and the performance level usually raises across the board.
  12. ContraFart
    But here is where the football reference does not work. The performance variance in an NFL team can be caused by the head to head match up. A team with a good running game can be stifled by a great run defence and there is no way to change the game plan. Each drum corps show is isolated so variances cannot be caused by the actions or strategies of another team. The variances in venue that do exist can effect all corps relatively the same (weather, acoustics, field condition, etc.) I am not trying to negate the existence of a bad run. It can happen, but I think the frequency of a bad run is lower and the negative impact of a bad run is significantly mitigated the higher level the corps is....as I said before top 3 or 4.
  13. ContraFart
    Then what is an acceptable variance? Is it .05 in a caption, .5 a whole point? By the reasoning that I am getting back, there are variences in the performance, in the panels and even in vantage point a judge will have on a given night. So when are the scores a result of the corps performance and when are the scores a result of the names on the judging panel?
  14. ContraFart
    I disagree when it comes to the top 3 or 4 corps.
  15. ContraFart
    I see what you are trying to say, but not once in this entire thread has consistency been a judging goal. We are supposed to just accept that scores can swing depending on the panel. I strongly feel that the basis of competition should not fall on the names on the judging sheet.
  16. ContraFart
    I know that I am going in circles here, but if the results cannot be duplicated, then how valid is the system?
  17. ContraFart
    Then if numbers only represent opinion, then why do we have them? The numbers either represent educated evaluation in which the results can be duplicated, or they can represent opinion. NOT BOTH!
  18. ContraFart
    I may not have the vocabulary to describe what I see in the same context as the judging community, but I am far from uneducated. All in all 3 shows, all at the same venue, all have the same content, 2 shows yield similar results, the 3rd has different results. Of course I am going to question the one that is not like the others.
  19. ContraFart
    So basically you are saying that numbers shift and the sport is completely subjective, but we should blindly agree in the wisdom of the judges because my opinion doesn't count
  20. ContraFart
    And in a subjective activity do dissenting opinions hold no weight?
  21. ContraFart
    But I cannot see the meaning in those numbers when they unreasonably shift in a somewhat controlled environment.
  22. ContraFart
    You don't need to be a judge to have an opinion
  23. ContraFart
    Not when you haven't agreed with the results for the most part in nearly a decade.
  24. ContraFart
    Either the numbers mean something or they don't. You can't have it both ways.
  25. ContraFart
    But this thread is making competing arguments. 1. That judges are trained and judge to the sheets in a way that is accurate. 2. That there is fluctuation in scores due to relative viewings and a half point shift from one night to the next should be acceptable. It can't be both.
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