TheOneWhoKnows
-
Posts
1,168 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
3
Posts posted by TheOneWhoKnows
-
-
Just now, IllianaLancerContra said:
Who?
The Cadets
-
Everyone’s freaking out that they aren’t listed on the DCI website anymore
-
1 minute ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Thanks for the clarification. So this case is trying to determine who was negligent. (Penn State flashbacks coming back.) Sounds like trying to hold people in the organization responsible. And if can’t have a criminal trial to hold them responsible then hit them in the pocketbook.
Or other option of ignoring it. 👎Personally I’d prefer the individuals be sued and not the current organization.
I agree. I could see wanting to sue the organization in terms of forcing them to acknowledge, apologize, and establish practices for prevention.
But going after them for compensation is skirting the personal responsibility of those involved.
Granted, there are 10 “John Does” listed on the lawsuit. I can only assume that includes individuals that were prevalent back then. But the big name at the top is Cadets and DCI.
-
1
-
-
1 minute ago, JimF-LowBari said:
What exactly is this trial going to be about? Is it “we know who did or didn’t do what when, this is only about punishment”? Or is it Cadets and DCI didn’t do what they should have and it needs to be determined what that was? And there still are people out there victim blaming, not that a guilty verdict would change their minds
The court documents state the complaint is that the organization knew it was going to happen and didn’t stop it from happening.
So really it isn’t even about whether or not it happened, it’s about whether or not those in the organization at the time knew about it and intentionally didn’t stop it. The case skips over whether it actually happened or not.
-
1
-
1
-
-
46 minutes ago, HockeyDad said:
Ignorance as a defense. Interesting strategy. Seems like society is increasingly not buying this excuse. As an example, just two weeks ago a school shooter’s mom was found guilty of manslaughter. I know no details about it other than the headlines but I see a parallel. In one case the parent held responsible for the crime committed by the child. In Cadets case the umbrella organization (DCI) being sued for the crime of one of its members.
It’s just society hungry for lawsuits.
If you get into the details of that case regarding the Mother, I think they went way too far in charging her and subsequently a jury finding her guilty.
Recklessness? Maybe. Manslaughter in regards to their claims against her? It’s a stretch. And before anyone wants to say “well a jury found her guilty”, a jury verdict isn’t necessarily pure fact, it’s an opinion based on persuasion.
-
11 hours ago, Slingerland said:
They won't settle. The complainant wants a trial, and Cadets have offered her everything they have to settle. If the complainant is still looking for a jury trial, it'll be up to the folks to find that the preponderance of evidence supports her claim.
If I was a betting person, I'd actually put the odds in Cadets favor. But I'm not a betting person.The complainant didn’t want the trial. It was when DCI was added that a trial was demanded.
-
6 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Maybe it’s not just a case of wanting money. Could want the truth of this mess to come out publicly.
I guess my question is, isn’t the truth already out there?
-
Looks like we have a settlement conference and ultimately a trial date now
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:
I suppose that had someone started a new corps back in October/November and brought most of the former Cadets members/staff together under a different banner (say, Magic of Meadville), then that would be okay?
You’d have a stronger argument against being the same organization. Members and staff are free to go to any corps they like.
-
1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:
How far does that extend? Do we all have to avoid naming a corps "Cadets" from now on? If SCVC ever comes back, do they have to pick a different name? Will too much maroon and gold get you swept up in a lawsuit?
At least this explains why corps now change all their costuming every year.
I think it was more because the organization claimed the traditions, history, and accolades of the organization named in the lawsuit originally. Do I think a corps in PA/NJ could be named “The Cadets” or “Holy Name Cadets”, etc etc., no. No corps will be able to have that make and make a successful claim that they are different.
-
6 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
while he has allowed the suit to go on, the case has not yet been officially lost. if they lose, yes, that name is done
With the current times, there’s a 90% chance the Cadets lose this case.
-
1 hour ago, Richard Lesher said:
If there was a contingent of stakeholders in the drum corps community to build something from scratch it should be feasible. Right? There is now a vacuum the Cadets leave behind.
The strategy has been used before, yes, Cadets up and move and change Tax ID numbers. They probably have exhausted the use of that strategy.
There are people willing to be instructional staff, there are youth willing to be marching members. Now someone needs to lead a charge to generate a non profit from scratch and raise funds to go around and march in some parades.
Have a focus on performing arts for youth, and take it from there.
Don't manage money like SCV's does, and don't touch members like Cadets did and a new organization would be off to a great start.
It has to be an entirely different entity and identity. They cannot claim any of the traditions or the history of the cadets if there was a new corps created. That’s how the judge allowed this lawsuit to go against them. Sure they have a new non profit and new tax ID, but they still claim all the history and traditions of the organization.
-
4 hours ago, TOC said:
Those same sentiments are being sent to SCV.
SCV is no where near the state The Cadets are in right now.
-
48 minutes ago, LabMaster said:
I don’t believe there is any coming back for Cadets. No money now, no money coming, only money going for debts and huge legal bills. Then the legal issues themselves on top of the cost of them. All their assets are gone. They would be starting from scratch. Less than scratch actually. They need money and support. Lots of it. And the cavelry is not coming I’m afraid.
Unfortunately, this is the truth.
-
6 hours ago, Tim K said:
If they don’t get the money, victims go to court hoping to get liens put on whatever they can. If the settlement can’t be paid, the guilty party goes to court to see if the judgment amount can be reduced. Bankruptcy will probably be declared. If it can’t be paid, it can’t be paid. It happens pretty often. It’s fairly common people do not get the full settlement.
Stating this as respectively as possible since we can’t obviously know the exact intentions, but it’s why I don’t fully understand the point here. We already know there’s no money for the Cadets to pay out. Which as you stated happens pretty often. So is it to just destroy the organization? I guess I just don’t see how that avenue creates a greater good and better future for everyone. Probably going to get blowback for stating this.
-
3 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
snow lasts
We don’t even get that much snow here anymore
-
41 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
Question for lawyers here - If settlement exceeds cash available, who gets paid first - the plaintiff or the lawyers? Or is there some kind of split that is settled on?
Typically depends on lawyer-client agreement. Usually court fees/other mandatory expenses are deducted from settlements paid.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, RiverCityAndTroopersFan said:
I’m pretty sick of the random person saying cadets are gonna shut down. We went through this with SCV and they are alive and kickin’
39 minutes ago, rpbobcat said:The situation with SCV was a lot different.
If I read correctly, their issues had to do with the state compliance, including their BINGO operation.
The Cadets are dealing with both financial and legal issues.
If the stories about The Cadets liquidating assets are true, they are in a dire financial situation.
Living in North Jersey, I know a number of Cadets alumni.
They all say the same thing about the Cadets selling off pretty much everything.
From the Board Chair's October 16,2023 "Message" I anticipated some type of "follow up". But, to date, nothing.
I would think if The Cadets planned on coming back, they'd be doing some type fund raising, including for the Maroon and Gold Club.
I've been a member of the Maroon and Gold Club going back to the early 80's but haven't heard a word from the organization.
The on going litigation just makes things worse.
The "Cadets Are Being Sued . . . " thread provides a pretty good analysis of the legal problems the organization faces.
I would love to see The Cadets back on the field.
Just doesn't seem like, even if it can happen ,it won't be anytime soon.
35 minutes ago, Tim K said:What you say could prove to be true and it would be wonderful for it to be true, but there are a few things to keep in mind. Yes SCV is scheduled to field a corps this year and with some of the folks involved, it could be promising, but until we see the corps on the field, we can’t say “alive and kicken’.” I say this as someone who was surprised Spirit came back as strong as they did, so I realize you never know. However, Cadets’ situation sounds closer to Glassmen who also had to liquidate their assets after they decided not to field a corps. Glassmen never had the drama prior to the former director leaving or the drama and at times chaos that followed his departure, not to mention pending lawsuits. Cadets could compete again, but it would mean starting from scratch.
Issue is the legal process is held up and drawn out just like most legal processes.
The Cadets “can’t” fundraise because any funds they collect/have on hand could just go straight to a settlement. (I say “can’t” because they technically can, but why would you?)
They already don’t have money. Which is why DCI was added to the list of defendants. In all truth, this lawsuit could take down DCI altogether. DCI has a stronger argument against them being involved compared to The Cadets.
This isn’t the same situation as SCV. SCV just had mismanagement issues. Cadets are involved in a legal issue that has social backing and the writing is on the wall. They’re done.
-
1
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
I’m afraid you’re probably right. Jim was tearing up watching the videos. He really loves that corps.
I was thrilled to have them move to Erie and support them in every way I can and saw a great future for them here.
-
1
-
-
Unless some miracle happens, this is the end of the Cadets. So a great article summarizing some historical accomplishments.
-
5
-
-
1 hour ago, cixelsyd said:
"Business acumen"?
The activity operating model has never been much of a "business". It charges participants half of what the experience costs, then tries to make up the difference largely by begging for charitable support. In your context, "business acumen" is merely finding more ways to attract someone else's money to solve the chronic shortfall. Maybe instead, it should be having the courage and tenacity to challenge that model.
The activity product is derived from the music of others by amateur designers, and performed by amateur youth. Those immutable characteristics will prevent revenue/exposure from providing the sustainability solution all by themselves. Something else will need to change... something activity-specific. That seems to be the point of the post to which you were responding. And it seems that Nate recognizes it too, judging from his interview.
Not sure I’d refer to either the designers or performers as “amateurs”.
-
12 minutes ago, Jimmyjames said:
Is it just me, or are you always taking cheap shots at other corps....
But is it a cheap shot? There’s very very low probability the corps survives this. And who knows how messy it will get with DCI before it’s all said and done.
-
1
-
-
13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
interesting interview. honestly the business acumen is what we need, and not him getting knee deep in rules etc.
We all know one can fluff answers for the cameras, but I appreciate the candidness. He’s honest about being an outsider and said the key points regarding evolution and sustainability of the activity. The words are there, just have to see what actions bring.
-
2
-
-
10 hours ago, Tim K said:
It might be a good idea for DCI to commission a study about interest in drum corps. While it is true corps have not been replaced and costs are high, I have wondered about the overall interest of young people in drum corps. I think young people who see drum corps in performance, especially if they have band or musical backgrounds are impressed and have the potential to become fans, but do they want to be a part of the activity? Back in the circuit days, you had what we usually called Class B or prep corps that were not direct feeders to better corps though some members did move on to better corps. You also has Class A corps which were good. These corps provided a great experience, but not all folded due to expenses or mismanagement. Many could not recruit members.
In the heyday of drum corps, sports opportunities and youth activities were limited. Today you have club sports for top athletes, a wide variety of athletic opportunities. School music programs are stronger. There are better theater opportunities. Dance classes are of better quality and the stigma for boys taking dance lessens, especially if hip hop dance is involved, has lessened (though not completely disappeared). How do we get young people involved, especially in the long, and difficult work of getting a corps off the ground when there are so many other activities?
I think the issue of "lack of interest" in the activity is multifaceted. I see this all the time in the group I teach and the ones I judge. They are no where near the size they used to be 10 years ago. A lot of it is technology. Joining your local band, drum corps, etc etc. was a source of social interaction. Kids don't need to go out and seek social interaction anymore when it is in the palm of their hands.
Cost is obvious and clear, so I'm not going to get into that.
The expansion of sports clubs is another reason. We are finding kids are suddenly just way too busy all the time to do something like band.
And for a semi controversial reason is the drum corps activity has grown so much as far as technical skills and abilities it's begun to feel out of reach for people. Whether that be internal self doubt or just a recognition of not having put in time and effort to be at the level the top corps are at to even consider auditioning. Sure the product we are getting out of the activity is incredible, but one could see it that is had out paced itself as far as required skills go.
The same logic can be applied to why we don't see new corps coming out. The music industry as a whole has out credential-ized itself. If you don't have XYZ degree and some million and two accolades you aren't really seen as being fit to "run" this activity. It was local clubs and organizations backed by parents that started so many smaller drum corps. We just don't have that anymore.
-
2
-
A Great Article on The Cadets
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Rumors are their membership has been revoked