PRPhan4ever
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Posts posted by PRPhan4ever
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So sorry for the typos ... typing on a phone is hard! :) In short... my whole post was to determine if PR's percussion has some sort of answer for their low scoring. Could it be that Gwaltney has not really been labeled in DC as a 'name' or, is it that the two styles are that drastically different, or perhaps -- is the judging system a little biased towards those in the WGI circuit? Maybe it something more? New staff just starting to work together... who knows? That's why I wanted to get other opinions ... PLEASE NO FLAMES! No bashing here... just trying to assertain why their percussion is not even in the top 5. Are they that dirty? And yes I get it -- others out there are just that much better supposedly -- but I don't think that's the only assumption as of now. Insight might be helpful....
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Ok -- First off, I am NO PERCUSSIONIST..... 2nd, I am a PR "homer" as these boards seem to call it. Third, I've not marched in a DCI corps, but I have 25+ years of playing, writting, teaching experience where horn playing is concerned. What I'm about to tackle is the pit/percussion mix on a field with horns. In WGI, it's percussion, pit and colorguard on occassion. Phantom is currently sitting in 4th place in the rankings. Their percussion is what - 7th? First, Regiment has never been one to strive for winning -- they have one goal and that is to reach and move the audience. They've consistantly done this year after year and this is no surprise. What troubls me is the pit and percussion. Now I did Shane Gwaltney''s work w/WGI and think he's take over a hurculean job in rebuilding Regiment's line after Paul rennick moved to SCV. I've listened to PR 2003 to 2010 when Paul wrote the battery and his wife & he wrote the pit parts. I had just done this at the end of the season last year. The phrasing and the interweaving of the pit to battery to complimenting the horns parts -- and interludes in between was superb!
Then, I listened to 2011 & 2012. This was only audio on a surround sound home theater system. What I did not hear was that complex melding of the pit parts to the horns on the field. At times, I hear NO pit! Sometimes, like in 2012, I hear the amplified asian theme inbetween OVER the pit... shouldn't it be the other way around? Now, I've read all the threads on here RE: Paul Rennick, his teaching style, his perfection to detail and i am not demeaning Mr. Gwaltney's work at all... but it seems that this years judging system and the new breakdown isn't helping Regiment's percussion at all. I've read Shane's bio, and am well familiar w/Paul's (I've volunteered since 2003 and before that and have atteneded and recorded MANY a rehearsal) so I know how Paul Rennick does things.
My post here is to figure out (in my own genre)what is the difference between the two men and how the fit w/Regiment?
They both write excellent charts -- a percussion professional here in PA has confirmed this, and I am wondering if the judges aren't a bit leary of WGI personalities or, do they just feel - before seeing/hearing/judging a line that's taught by a WGI professional as opposed to a seasoned DCI mega percussion name like Paul Rennick. Something is amiss. Phantom seems more musical than cadets, but cadets have just beaten them (and many others of late) and Regiment just can't seem to pick up that perc score --- my feel from listening as I mentioned to comparison years and that the perfect blend that brass and pit/battery had while Rennick was at PR are not as flowing, not as interweaving, and this could be the fact that there have been two different horn arrangers in Gwaltney's first two years.
Take 2012 for example.... I heaflow is concened.r drums alot and great playing, but no pit! Or, I hear the pit, and hardly drums.... there are portions where the battery is all the way in teh back of the field -- which may make them more dissonant? I am not sure... but the two men are great at what they do, but drastically different where musical flow between the two are heard. Anyone else feel this way? Is it perhaps that WGI & DCI writting are that different in competition sense, or, are the DCI judges just passing PR by because that BIG NAME is no longer there?
Ironically, look how SCV's line is scoring? They are good... VERY GOOD, but, if I am not miistaken, most are still within age out limits and came from PR w/Rennick! Are the DCI judges just going by a name, or, are the two men that drastically different in their approach and writting that they differ so much to the judges?
Rennick and Gwaltney are superb in what they do.... but is it too soon to expect a better line two years after assuming a post? Maybe so.... is the talent level for each line equal? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Other posts on here have touched on this. So is it that Paul and Shane are two birds of a different nature in the same business? I think so. No line is the same, nor is teaching method -- but what IS consistant is how these lines are supposed to be judged. Personally, I think Regiment should be scoring higher -- but when i listen to 2011 & 2012 thus far -- I want that total cohesion and flow from piece to piece that is everyone, battery, pit and horns... not just one or two at a time, or, just one or the other.
Thoughts on this?
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Ok, i've seen alot of posts/info on "C2" - but who is actually on staff? Brass, Perc etc? I know alot of folks left Reading Bucs, but is this where they all ended up?
Haven't hearn nor seen.
Just curious, as I'd wonder if they brass staff, Bocook included have all migrated to the new "Cadets" DCA group.
Thoughts? Info? Disclaimers?
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Let's get this topic back to where it needs to be and away from the 'management' does/doesn't do thing..........
It all started when SOMEONE stated that JD & Paul Rennick had a falling out. Hell, I've had major fall outs with fellow staff members I've worked with for 20 years and all is well when we have to literally put a program together (at my church). It happens, people are people, and passionate musicians are at the top of the "I feel strongly that MY idea is better" mantra.
Now............ who wrote the 2001 brass book? It had incredible mellow runs (which JD Is known for) as well as some great brass. Can't recall the name. One thing I DO know, is that Regiment likes to stay in house alot (moreso since 2000 to present) many, many former members are tech's and assistants on tour, and I personally think Will Pitts SHOULD throw his hat in the ring.
He KNOWS the make up of the group, the musical persona of the corps, the management and the history. HE KNOWS how to write! I have copies of his orchestral pieces and they are VERY, Very good! He also has great skills to know the workings of a scores performance being conductor for so many years with Regiment. He's well educated and i think a great fit for Regiment. He's young, vibrant and very professional.
Still can't remember the name of the Arranger in 2001.... Michael Klesch (??) (sp?)
Hmmmmmmmmm....
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There was a video on Phantom's site at one time, as well as their FACEBOOK page - by their videographer in 2010 that showed a staff member literally screaming, throwing his hat/shirt down with veins popping out of his neck literally stating that: "It can't be that hard to count...." I have seen this with my own eyes/ears in 2008 with the same person. I thought it was demoralizing and, to think a kid pays $2000 dollars for that screaming by an adult? Gee, go into the Marines and you'll get it every day for free! I don't condone that behavior, and I found it so ironic that some of PR's BOD were actually on tour at this same time and may have seen/heard these incidents and nothing was said or done? Maybe it was told to them out of view/earshot of mere bystanders, but none the less, I would not stand for that by ANY staff member!
I have never heard JD Shaw or Paul Renninck scream or intimidate or demean any member, but a few of the visual staff........ that's a different story! Funny, I invited former Marines to Flemington NJ to watch PR's rehearsalbefore DCI East in 2008, and this one incident occured where a vis staff member was involved, where there was screaming at full volume while the corps was at parade rest awaiting field comments and my friend (a woman, 35 year USMC veteran) looked at me and said: "Was he a Marine?....... the people in charge let the instructors scream at the kids like that?... Really?" Then, the kid was called out while everyone watched and made to run two laps around the track as rehearsal ensured. I couldn't even reply.
But, as I said, I have no knowledge of what the inner workings are/were/will be of Regiment, or why things are as they are, have been etc. ........ only an observation of some bystanders that were with me, and was I embarrassed!
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I agree wholeheartedly about personality conflicts! I've heard some wild stories/examples ! (?) I love Phantom, and have been a LONG TIME supporter & phan, and I wish nothing for the best for the corps. I would love to see a change in the BOD. A fresh perspective often starts at the top and influences success all the way down the ladder, that is, if the ladder isn't sawed off with the key people at the top and everyone else at the bottom looking up !
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Well, you know, people have 'personal falling outs' - and get over it. But sometimes, professional fortitude plays best when the persons involved in this are free to develop the music into a theme so it works. I've heard different things where it was 'one way' or no way........ and that wasn't from the brass or perc people either! Never knew the two caption heads had a falling out, but again I STRESS........ I was/am not an insider. Just watched their relationships at many a practice, rehearsal & run throughs is all.
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Oh, and i forgot to mention.............. I sensed this coming as soon as Regiment hired Ryan Raybee (??) as Caption Head. Then they posted a video w/Ryan talking about his personal perspective of brass performance & how he admired JD for what he 'has done' with Regiment and nothing he could do would/could detract from that and that "JD Shaw will always have an impact on the hornline". That to me said right there --- is this his last year (referring to JD)?
Didn't think much of it until I watched countless 2010 video of regiment and didn't see him on tour until like 2011, a week or so before finals. Just thoughts I forgot to include in the original post.
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I have met JD Shaw several times. Don't know him 'personally' -- but from 2002 to 2008, I sat in on LOTS of rehearsals, sectionals and sponsored alot of regiment members. I've volunteered off/on since 1993, and heard countless kids as well as PR Alum, volunteers as well as fellow staff say how much JD LOVES(ed) the activity -- he was a marching member with Regiment, and "it" (the activity) is in his blood !!! He is also a performer, and knows how much that masns to the young adults he teaches and instructs in a drum corps or a classroom. He & Paul Rennick did some masterful work together since teaming up in 2003. I think, and it's just MHO, that JD will take a hiatus, spend some quality time with family close to home, and within a year or so -- be back with a drum corps. Will it be "Phantom Regiment"? No. I think he wants to spread his wings as any instructor/arranger would and tackle new ares, new material, new talent with a digfferent and fresh perspective. His heart will always, I suspect, be with Phantom and their best wishes, but it's a gut feeling he may end up in a year or two say, in Santa Clara?
SCV's brass has been suffering the last few years, and like percussion, may need a total overhaul with new staff.
Why do "I" feel JD may want to head to SCV (if an offer was made) ? Here is MY, and MY rationale as a musician ONLY, but in comparison:
----- spent almost 10 years in one place, same mindset, same repitoire type and same philosophy with regiment
----- same upper management structure (which may limit one's creativity if they give/don't give final approval of a show theme, concept, music etc)
----- Staff turnover on a regular basis. This hurts how a group runs and functions. Staff have to 'gel' and understand eachother and have similiar mindsets to how to program a show. Can't happen if there are new people every year or two.
----- SCV is closer to NM than Rockford. Family is important, and with two little ones, a dad has to want to spend quality time with his family, not always across the country on the road.
----- SCV would possibly offer alot of 'perks' I would think to obtain a quality arranger like JD, who has worked well in the past with the other key caption head, Paul Rennick.
All of this considered, if "I" loved the activity as much as I know JD and others all across the country do, a short break might be in order to renew, refresh, regroup and re-evaluate what one wants to do in their professional and perfoming life. Then, once all the ducks are in a row, you'll see JD back in top form, writting yet another stellar brass book for a drum corps.
I do wish him all the best and covet all the times I got to see, hear and drink in all that professional advise, instruction and talent from him from the years I was around Regiment and thehorn kids I sponsored over the years. It's made me a better musician and teacher!
All best to you JD -- and enjoy the fruits of your labors w/Regiment! YOU'VE EARNED IT!
-TL
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SO SORRY for all the typo's -- using a DROID keypad in a car! I am quite the prophetic speller as well as being gramatically correct!
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MAN, freaked me out when Paul rennick left regiment for SCV -- Paul & Sandy made that percussion section what it was -- and I wondered from the day they (PR BOD) announced his leaving why onearth they )PR) pursue Jeff Prosperie once again? Does West Point & the Hell cats take up that much time/travel he could not write/tour with the corps? I just think, being caption head & on the drum staff w/Phantom for so many years and knowing what the organization is, their history and their musical emnodiment WHY on earth did they not exten an offer to him?
I am not a drum instructor, but I have degrees in brass, music ed etc and I would think logically - you'd want someone who was familiar with the history, traditions and musical style Regiment has rather than someone new to their type of musical choices. I've studied up on Shane Gwltney & he has the chops and training -- I just don't think he was the best choice. MHOO (My humble opiniion only).
Soldier Prosperie is extremely great drummer and instructor -- AND, he has been in the current mainstream judging circuit to know exactly what the trends, tricks etc are. I've gone and looked art video (from several sources) of Gwaltney's lines and while musical, theier technical talent doesn't seem to be the level of expectancy that a Top 12 DCI world class corps demands.
MOW BEFORE YOU ALL BREAK OUT THE FLAME THROWERS at me.... I am NOT challenging or questioning Mr. Gwaltney's ability to produce a good drumline (others have mentioned the suspect comments & theories I have on this same board) but rather who the actiual candidates pursued actually were? Gosh, Lee Beddis, Marty Hurley, again Jeff Prosperie among others would have seemed a more 'logocal' choice given all the Regiment employs in their staff from the past 50 years or so. Thoughts?
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spirit guide.
Ok, we've seen the uni's --- what is the music & drill like!
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#### --- lossof 10 yard... does that mean that I have to 'repaint the hash marks'? Gosh things we go through..........
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This leads me to another thought just as I send for the previous post..................
What other corps, if ANY - with the size of the hornlines in the past 3 years.... have actually, IF TRUE, had that many rookies, or, at best new to the Regiment hornline teachings ? 55 seems like a HUGE # of lesser experienced players compared to those they were competing against. I had heard this early on in the season and never bothered to clarify - figuring someone else would! If I recall, PR field 72+ horns this year and if you take the #'s from PR's VLog -- that's 80 horns.........
Has ANY other corps won a world championship, lost so many vets and, still fielded an amazing hornline like they (Regiment) did and placed in the top 5 in horns? Who? My god, the more I think on this the more amazing and difficukt this seems! I think, and it's speculation ONLY...... that the judges early on in the season, took that approach "They are young, they won't amass that typical Phantom power with all the vets gone...." and scvored them accordingly, whereas the season progressed, so did the members playing of a great horn book - and if you think about it, how could the judges give commendable scores jumping 1-2 points probably from ATL to finals and say it was justified? All the other corps would have a fit, just like they did with the adverse that we DID see in the placements
Think about it.... World Champs 1 year, 2009 sees 55 lesser skilled (not lesser talented - less in the sense of the Regiment training technique) brass platers and they field a line like that... place 9th ?? THINK ABOUT IT!
Oh I wish I could be 19 again and get THAT TYPE of experience! AND - be a part of that Regiment hornline!
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THERE IT IS IN A NUTSHELL..................
Craig wrote:...............
"Daniel also mentions in one of his Vlogs how young the corps was and if I heard him right that there were only 25 vets in the hornline. If that was the case the staff and those vets did a great job of teaching 55 rookies what it takes and how to be a regiment hornline. "
THAT in itself is an AWESOME achievement & much to the credit of JD Shaw and staff, and also, the willingness ahd hard work put forth by the Regiment members themselves in lieu of this! THAT IS what the judges simly decided NOT to take into account....
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It's over ------ let's look fwd to 2010 !!!! BD won.... 1,000's liked there show, and probably the same numbers had issues and dislikes about it. We've covered evry angle, aspect, color, position, placement, score, bias, non-bias, judging to the limit already.
Whatever 2009 was --- it's over and THE JUDGES picked thier einners, the audience didn't!
THE END
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Of y'all want proof of what I am saying about sound/performance (maturity) -- look/listen to-at vids out there from early season to present (finals week) as well as coupling that w/the journal entries by a horn member on PR's page - and even more so 'see it from the guy himself' on the FACEBOOK regiment page "VBlogs" He talsk about the hornline stressing fundamentals, rtechnique, phrasing and articulat and how they were being told to buckle down......
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Horns from Atlanta to finals --totally more articulate and phrasing was 10000 better ! Plus in ATL - the sound sucked --- and, probably a bit more that at finals!
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What would be better than giving Regiment members in 2010 a difficult, challanging drill, the same fantastic horn drum book music, and the main staff returning for both sections? What would be entailed to Regiment getting BACK the designers/drill writters from say........... 2006?
May drill writters in the top echelon write for several corps in one season! Doesn't Regiment owe it to the adjoining staff aside from colorguard/design to match quality for all areas for those that pay to march? I know, I know -- it's all about the money..............
I think after this past year - taking into account ALL that has happened ---- the marching members did one HELL pf a job !
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Sorry -- that was "Supposed to be" -- Jamey Thompson and Adam Sage!
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The more & more I watch clips of this show (from early season to fonals) & listening to APD's & downloads -- I realize just how good this music book really was! Horns were awesom-- better than, dare I say BD or crown? But, in the perfomance / technical aspect they were far superior (IMHO). Intonation was better (even in a dome), clarity and projection was crisper. You can hear it on the APD's if you listen to the teriplets, ensemble unison playing as well as releases.
Their brass score? Totally unjustifyable.... but, I am human and can accept people dissagreeing.
Regiment kids & staff --- you pulled out a tremendous show through hurculean obstacles. KUDOS !!!
I wany Jamet Thompson & Adam Sage back.... please, please Regiment BOD -- give the marching members who PAY To be their the instructors worthy of THEIR talent and skill. 2008 was AWESOME... 2009 was disheartening in the sense that the design element needed to match the music just wasn't there. Perhaps 2010....
Best wishes to Regiment staff, members, alumni, supporters and volunteers..... YOU ARE the Phantom Regiment!
THANKS FOR A GREAT YEAR!
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You kmow, i just watched BD's full show (2009) on a site left uin-named and you know -- maybe Regiment should set up their encore block in the middle of the field next year, and play all of their standards / faves and have that be their show! Hell, wouldn't be too fqar off of what won this year? And they would certainly beat the snot out of any other corps in Brass/ drums if they did~! who needs drill anyway when you can stand/sit etc and win ? Regiment has been missing the boat all along! Well, i guess they have an idea for 2010.......
But seriously, they should have had 7th.... at best! brass was just out of this world and percussion was simply awesome even though I'm a brass gal at heart & trade!
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I'd sell my soul to understudy w/JD and better still, be a member of the Phamed Phantom hornline -- but alass, I'm too old, and besides, maybe I can take classes? Well, I think I'd have to relocate to NM ! Oh, hell, it would be worth every bloody cent!
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I'd sell my very soul and what is left of this aged body to even be able to be his understudy! Much less a member of the Phamed PR hornline! I'd love to take classes from him.... but I think I'd have to relocate! Hell, it would be worth every cent!
Phantom Regiment 2012
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE THIS SHOW! So glad Jamey Thompson is back and it shows! The colorguard is out of this world and we've seen the re-emergence of the 'old school' Regiment once more which is refreshing! The color, the musical selections are wonderful! the new ending? MUCH NEEDED! What needs to be added is that speciallittle 'something' at the end -- which they are obviously preparing for! What I think this Regiment has this year that was missing this year is that pagentry, the passion! The kids LOVE performing this show... it's obvious. i just wish the percussion was getting scored better. But, I am so relieved that Don Hill has written the brass book he has -- and the new ending --- CLASSIC Phantom! There just needs to be that one 'spark' that drives that closer home to a musical/visual climax! I don't care if they win... I love the fact that they have stayed true to their identity and given us yet another amazing show to love!
I will always love Regiment, and I love drum corps in general. Just give BD the trophy for DCI for technicall prowess, and create a second trophy for most creative, audience appreciated show and Regiment would be a contender if not the winner EVERY year! SUTA!