jwillis35
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Posts posted by jwillis35
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No, my opinion hasn't changed, I just found more corps that I don't like just as much! :P
And here is a question for you Mr. Boo...last night we listened to the APD of the Cadets show from Indianapolis. (We did see the whole show in Orlando). And just listening to the audio with the exception of the ballad, no MUSIC was to be found. My husband agrees with me on this. Not only that..but amps were bleeding over with static into the horn line and the amps overwhelmed the horn lines on many shows. There were some weird amp noises going on in the Cadets show. Is that what you want to be listening to when you buy your CD's? Have you ever just listened to the audio of the show?
Oh and I am going to division 2/3 corps finals this year.
WOW. If you are unable to find the musical theme in the Cadets show, ballad aside, then you are not hearing what I am. But more importantly I notice that all you do, Lancerlady, is whine and gripe about pretty much everything in DCI today. Just my opinon. I know you are welcome to yours, but my opinion is that perhaps you should look at yourself before crying about DCI and the Cadets. If your needs are not being met, THEN DROP SOME OF YOUR NEEDS!! I don't think I have seen one post from you that is positive, or that at least proposes serious and practical solutions to what you feel is wrong. Why don't you find something better to do? If drum corps is not your thing or you just can't stand where it is presently, then do something else. And don't sit here and tell me how you have the right to try and fix the activity by voicing your concerns because doing it the way you do on this forum is not helping for making one iota of a difference. If it bothers you that bad then get involved, write DCI, work with a corps, help to make a change in the activity according to the world of Lancerlady.
I am just calling it the way I see it. If you don't like what I am saying, no big deal to me.
Jonathan
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Also Madison Scouts 1973 - 1978. WOW!!!!!!!!!
Jonathan
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SCV 1972-1976 (even up to 1978)
BD 1976 - 1980 (even up to 1982)
Garfield 1982 - 1987 (6 years)
Cadets 1990 - 1998 (9 years, 3 titles, 4 2nd-place finshes, one 3rd-place finish but still runner-up to PR and BD, and only one non-top five show in 1991.) And every show is amazing in my opinion.
Phantom Regiment 1977 - 1981 (even up to 1984)
Phantom Regiment 1989 - 1993
Phantom Regiment 2001 - 2005 (think about this)
Bluecoats 1987 - 1991
Bluecoats 2001 - 2005
Star of Indiana 1989 - 1993 (for sheer excellence, innovation, mastery of material, design, you name it, this may be the best 5 year history of any corps, even over the great BD, SCV, and Cadets spans.)
Only 1 title, yes. But 3 quarterfinal wins in a row, a re-defining of brass and percussion excellence, incredible drill and the final brush strokes of Zingali, 4 brass titles (a few with BD), and the innovation of total show design that too drum corps to the next level since Garifeld 1983. Say what you want, but we all refer back to the Star 1993 show for a reason. All top 5 shows, and honestly the last 4 could have all been title winning shows.
Jonathan
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I didn't mind the tic system in judging, but too often you would see corps water down their shows for the sake of points. Creativity was only going to go so far under a system that constricted the designers with fear of failure.
Nothing against the Blue Devils, but in 1979 and 1980 I feel they won two titles by watering and hosing their book and show in order to be as clean as possible. Phantom paid the price in 1979, and the 27th Lancers paid the price in 1980 with a show that had more demand, innovation, and artistry, but they were just not as clean as BD.
In the end we were awarding the high score to the corps that simply cleaned and did not get caught making mistakes, vs. a corps that produced the best product and performed the heck out of it, even though it may not have been perfectly clean.
In any creative activity, as well as in research and development in any industry, growth, innovation, and excellence must be achieved by opening doors and tearing down boundries. People need space to work. They cannot be limited by closed in walls and constricting rules.
Jonathan
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Thanks fot the comment about the airplane. I just didn't see it very well I guess, but that makes so much more sense (referring to Seattle's show).
As for the Cavaliers ending, it is not that much different from the one they did in Indianapolis. Instead of finishing under the ladders, most of the brass finished to the right of the ladders (audience perspective), and then they thow down in a stand still. But they take their hats off and fling them to the ground before doing so. Guard is very good and effective during this segment. A few members are up in the ladders for the final chord. Honestly, the Cavaliers were cleaner in terms of drill than the Cadets. It's really a toss up. They are both so amazing, but each show is also very different. The Cadets are more essoteric, dark, strange, yet wonderful in a very unique way. The Cavaliers are majestic at the beginning (nice opening fanfare), beautiful and haunting in the middle, and swingin' at the end. Nice contrast of entertainment. I loved it.
Jonathan
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Well I just finished driving two hours back home from the Pittsburgh show. What a great night of drum corps. Many thanks to all the people who helped in sponsoring and running the show tonight. I thought it was a huge success once again. Good stadium for drum corps, and the crowd was quite large. Maybe 4,500 people. Getting to the show and parking can be a big problem here in Baldwin, just south of Pittsburgh, and traffic was backed up for miles coming into the stadium. But it was all worth it.
Here are the scores.
1 The Cadets 95.350
2 The Cavaliers 94.850
3 Blue Knights 86.650
4 Capital Regiment 79.900
5 Seattle Cascades 78.500
6 Pioneer 74.300
DIVISION III
1 Yamato 75.500
2 Lake Erie Regiment 65.200
First off, the Division III corps did a nice job tonight. Both Yamato and Lake Erie Regiment were very good and entertaining to watch. There is a lot of talent in Yamato, especially in their guard.
Pioneer continues to improve by leaps and bounds from when I saw them in Wisconsin back in early July. Nice brass book written by Rick Kirby. Very musical and I really enjoy the show. The horns are starting to develop a nice blend, guard was energetic tonight and very entertaining, and the drill is excellent. They cover a lot of the field for a slightly smaller corps than the top 6.
Seattle was great. I really love this show. Nice sound and blend. I can hear the feet at times, so control is an issue, but intonation was good for the most part. Solid horn book and their drums were very musical. Very good use of the field and I loved the rotating cross with the orange circles and boxes. Honestly, I had them over Capital tonight.
Capital Regiment has a nice show that has certainly come together as of late. But I was not as taken by this production as with last year's. The horns have big intonation issues and I hear the feet quite often. Controlling their bodies is an issue right now, so tone is suffering. The horn book is a bit muddy to me, with melody getting lost a good bit. This hurts music GE. Yet when they nail something it is fantastic. They have the potential, but much cleaning is needed. I don't really care for the sun dial on the field. It is too large and detracts from the show more than it helps. Percussion was excellent, and the drill is very good.
Blue Knights - WOW! Nice show guys. I love it. Very smooth, controlled, and very musical. Some great arranging here, both drill and music. Very demanding drill, and what a low brass section. Holy Contras!!! Nicely done. They really cover the field. I love the color of the field drums. It's kind of a bondi blue, matched against the normal blue jacket, and the guard is in a light or powder blue. It's a great look from up high. The crowd really enjoyed these guys.
Cavaliers - HOLY COW!!!!! This show rocks. I love it, every single aspect. Brass line is outstanding. Sometimes a bit reserved, but what control and what musical presence. Intonation is very good. Trumpet soloist at the beginning of the blues tune was having some difficulties, but that final tune just lights up the house. The entire production is so amazing. The middle section of the show where the mellophones climb up the ladders and play a snippet of Amazing Grace, with the rest of the horns coming in underneat them, and with the guard in fire fighter hats, is just haunting and beatiful at the same time. Let's just have them and Cadets tie. They are both just way too good.
Cadets - HOLY COW!!!! Another show that just rocks...but in a very different way. The Cadets will not pull the crowd out of their seats the way the Cavaliers will at the end of their show. This show is a bit more essoteric, strange, sometimes funny and cute, and other times just downright jammin' in your face. There is no doubt that they are innovating on a number of fronts. The opening of their show, which is actually the warm up, with all the whistling, is just great. So many of their drill moves are very daring and tend to expose any little error. They still seem to have a good bit to clean, but they are performing with such confidence. There are so many highlights, as with Cavies, that I could not do it all justice here. BUT...the things I remember the most are the hints to the Twilight Zone, the girls changing characters and personalities each time they go in and out of the door, the jam session duriing the Bjork tune, and the haunting ballad that I could not get out of my head all the way home. That ballad is a killer moment.
Cavaliers vs Cadets
Here is my take: How the heck can you judge this? WOW. Two great shows and both are championship worthy. I will say this: I saw Phantom two nights ago in Massillon, and I do believe they can jump right into the mix with these two corps. Honestly, tonight I would have given the edge to the Cavaliers...maybe by about .4 or .5. But it is so close, almost too close to call. Both have amazing brass and percussion, both have those killer guards, and both have GE and great visual execution. Both have the total show design and demand, and so I feel it is really just a matter of who nails their show on any given night. Maybe if we make them tie two or three times, we can get them to keep performing at finals as a sort of real encore instead of what DCI has been doing for the retreat. I could easily watch these two shows about 10 times in a row. Just not sure they would want to play them that much. I do expect Phantom to jump into the race. As great as the Cadets and Cavaliers are, they are not invincible, but it will take a very, very special show to compete with them. I believe Phantom has that show. Should be a 3-way shoot out come finals. But for now, BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO to both Cavaliers and Cadets.
Enough babbling for now. I need sleep. Must work in the morning.
Jonathan
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Canton/Massillon, OH. The crowd at the annual Pro Football Hall of Fame Festival Drum Corps show is head over heels for drum corps and the kids. The crowd was awesome this past Sunday.
Madison, WI will always be up there.
Giants Stadium in New Jersey. Great crowd.
Crew Stadium in Columbus, OH. YES!!! They went nuts for the Cadets last night, and everyone else except BD.
Maryland/Washinton D.C. - Championships there in 2000 were incredible. Very vocal crowd.
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I agree with many of you. It is impossible to define the peak of the drum and bugle corps activity as stated here. You need to define what is meant by peak. Are we looking for when drum corps had the most corps? The best collection of talent? The most competitive shows? The most corps with entertaining shows? The level of artistry and demand? The greatest number of kids involved (again more corps)? Or are we talking about the financial health of the corps and DCI?
This would be tough without some qualifiers. There were more corps in the 1950s and 1960s than there are today. Shows have been entertaining from the beginning of the activity to today, but many will argue that shows in the 50s, 60s, and 70s were, in general, more fan friendly, whereas today the shows tend to be more about art. There is no question that the quality of today's corps in terms of musicianship, demand, and visual innovation are at an optimum level.
Having said all of that, drum corps has seen its ups and downs in every decade with just about every corps. DCI may be in its best shape financially since its inception in 1972, but it also operates in a very expensive economy as do all the corps. We have seen the economy and the financial management of a corps be the leading cause for the demise of many units, yet we continue to see some new blood and some re-births.
Jonathan
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I loved their shows, but I would have never joined. Just not serious enough for me. I was always more drawn to serious classical music or contemporary music done well, so Cadets, Star and Phantom have always been my favorites if I were to march. But that's just me.
But hey, I never marched since I was blessed with scholarships to the Chautauqua Institute Music Festival, the Eastern Music Festival, Aspen and the Summit Brass Festival, and the Los Angeles Philharmonic Orchestra Festival. I went to the Cadets camps in 1986 but then decided to play trombone in an orchestra. I still kind of regret not marching at least one year, but oh well. I do love drum corps. :)
Jonathan
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Oh who knows, just competition and they way things come out when you are judged against different corps by different judges.
Or, it could just be that the Blue Knights kids are just working harder than the SCV kids. Yeah, that's it. They just work harder, and are more talented. And I think they are being fed better. I think the SCV kids are starving and starting to tire of the season. They have folded up the tent. They realize that they are not very talented so why even try. I applaud that kind of effort. Hey, everyone needs to know when it's time. :)
JW
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I also wanted to add to this and say that based on what I saw two nights ago in Massillon I predict the following will happen for finals.
1. Cadets - just too good and too polished. Innovative design and very fresh.
2. Cavaliers will hold off Phantom, but just barely. As I watch the Cavaliers on DCI Season Pass, and as I listen to their APDs, I am reminded of just how good their show is and how well they perform. Too much demand for Phantom to top them.
3. Phantom Regiment - they will make it close with Cavies, maybe .5 to .8 close. But as good as this show is, and it is an amazing production, they are no better than Cavies in demand or execution of the visual program, and their percussion while very good will not match that of the Cavies. The Cavies percussion GE will set them apart. Phantom guard could help now that they are cleaning and performing very well.
4. Blue Devils - I still do not see them falling any lower than 5th, but I put them in 4th. Their show may not be a winning vehicle, but they can still march the heck out of anything, and they play very well. With their guard and visual execution strengths, if their brass and percussion scores start to rise, then 4th is where they will be.
5. Canton Bluecoats - just too good for Madison in my opinion. Horns and Drums will be there in the end, and if the Bluecoats clean the visual execution I believe they will be too much for Madison.
6. Madison Scouts - a great show that simply has a few spots that leave you flat. The drill is difficult and fast paced, but the marching is sometimes sloppy along with their horn playing which can get sloppy at times. Very demanding stuff, but do they have enough time to clean it.
7. Carolina Crown - Awesome show and one that could come close to Madison should they clean the heck out of it.
8. Boston Crusaders - I love this show. It's readable, beautiful, powerful, musical, expressive, and colorful -- all the things I love in drum corps. It may not be innovative (which I also like) but not every corps needs to reinvent the wheel each year. Certain things work in this activity, and they will always work. Everybody needs to use that formula from time to time.
9. Santa Clara - they could beat Boston. I would not rule that out, but Boston's show is just too good in all captions, and SCV is weak in visual and guard. Unless they really beat Boston good in brass and drums I just don't see this happening.
10. Blue Knights - I have only seen clips of this show, so I will take the opinions of many who say they will stay close to SCV but probably not pass them.
11. Glassmen - Nice show, some fun arrangements, but lack of balance in the horn line and a visual program that doesn't really grab you will hurt. Plus, I felt the musical thought process was too disjunct in this show.
12. Spirit of JSU - Too polished for Crossmen to handle this year, and they have a nice musical book with a better horn line than Glassmen. I like their drums also. A very good show with lots more that they can improve on before finals. Could upset Glassmen come finals. I like their overall product better.
Jonathan
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Corps can move up. I do not know the rules on all the details of how that is done, but the Blue Stars will be able to move up to Div I, most likely next season. They should, for those that have not seen Blue Stars, you are missing out.
What a great corps and a great show they have this year. They must have 128 to 135 kids out there, and I would likely have them running in front of a number of Div I corps this summer. They would probably be running from 16 to 20, somewhere in that bracket.
It is good to see them doing so well, but things have been going well for them for a number of years now.
Jonathan
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The Crossmen have a wonderful show. Musically it is one of the best on the field. I saw them last night. To me, they have two issues. 1. They are just dirty. If they can clean this show the crowd in Foxboro will LOVE their show. 2. The only other complaint I have with them is the uniform. For my taste their uniform is just ugly and does nothing to help them generate quality GE. Took dark, and the red at the top is distracting to look at and ugly. Hopefully some rich person will buy them new uniforms and they will go back to a colorful design. I want white pants, dark blue tops with gold and white sash with a lot of silver. White hats again.
Jonathan
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Maybe so, but if a symphony orchestra wants people to come to their concerts and supporters to pay their bills, they've gotta mix in a fair helping of the masters in with the new stuff. In any case, the point remains -- just because something's new doesn't mean that it's any good. And since DCI is an entertainment and a "spectator sport" (for want of a better term) in addition to being a performing art, keeping butts in the seats has got to be something of a priority, wouldn't you agree?
On the other hand, the great Masters of the past (like Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Handel, and just about every composer before the 20th century whether they were in he employ of a patron or worked independently), wrote music to put food on the table and if they didn't please their audience, they might not be in much position to make any more money in the future. Art for art's sake is a relatively new concept, right?
I agree with your point here, but I would also add this:
Those that attend symphony orchestra concerts on a regular basis really know and love the music of the great composers. They are not interested in "pop" music, at least not for the most part. Often when orchestras play the pops concerts they attract a very different kind of audience. I was a part of that for many years as I played with the Youngstown Symphony Orchestra, and others, for over 15 years. Those patrons that enjoy the pops stuff are certainly desired, and usually the orchestras enjoy giving those concerts, but they are generally not the big doners. It is the person who buys season tickets who is the big donor, and they mainly desire to hear the music of the classical and romantic periods, with music of the Baroque and some contemporary thrown in. These people are generally highly educated in music and culture. So when you mention that the great composers, like Bach, Mozarts, and Beethoven had to write to put food on the table, well this is true...but their audience was more educated in that style of music. Much more so than most are today. Writing music to put food on the table would mean something completely different today. Think "Garage Band." Think popular culture. Think cheesy rap, Britney, and American Idol kind of stuff. That's what often puts the money on the table, and this is what most in our society want. Should the orchestras play down to this just because this is where the new money is? Heck no.
We can look at all this in so many ways, but let me throw this at all of you:
In today's pop culture we are starting to see less artistry and quality in music. Our kids are exposed to absolute crap from day one, and they can't escape its obvious grip on society. It's on TV, Radio, in the movies, and kids can now download this junk on their iPods and other MP3 players. I am not saying that all popular music is bad, because I like a good bit of it, but it is becoming more rare to find quality and artistry in popular music. But this is what sells.
So...do we accept the norm and throw in the towel on literature of high quality and intelligence? Do we move away from artistic culture, and do we forget about teaching the great music of the great composers? Drum and bugle corps may not have to worry about this as much as those teaching in the schools, but it does have an effect on the activity. Both the marcher and the fan can suffer from a culture that supports a lack of artistry, lack of culture, and a perception that "as long as I am having fun, and that the corps are meeting MY needs" then all is good.
In other words, do we dummy down drum corps to meet the needs of people who have been conditioned by popular culture? Keep in mind that the people who often complain about fun shows and popular, recognizable music are the same people who do not attend symphony concerts unless it is a pops concert. This is not meant as a negative comment or a positive, but something to munch on.
To me it is sad that when I go to school band concerts that most of what I hear is popular music, not the music of the great traditions, the great composers, and even the best modern composers. I go to band nights and I hear jock rock glorified, I hear the Beatles, the Beach Boys, and it's all just watered down and chopped up so the kids will have fun. It's all about fun, and not enough about learning. Then I listen to the radio and I hear more popular music. I have to struggle to find artistry in today's culture, and when I do attend symphony concerts I have to hear those who are not subscriptions holders whine about wanting to hear movie music or Broadway. We have so little musical culture left in this country. Are we willing to allow it all to slide away, even in drum corps, because we are so worried about fun music vs. music of artistic quality? Because we are so worried about our own needs vs. giving kids something that our culture does not support?
The Phantom Regiment, SCV, Cadets, and others, have all performed shows based on great composers. Most drum corps do. And that's what I like. Most bands do not. Parents are more worried about their kids having fun in school rather than allowing or wanting their children to be educated in the best music by the best composers. Parents should want their children to learn more than they did, and I believe most want this. But then they attend a band/choir concert and want to know why the music performed was not fun, or why they didn't know the music. Well, if we are going to take their kids further then how can we do this by teaching to the limits of their musical knowledge. Instead of enrishing our children with music of substance we feed their need for popular music because it keeps them in band or choir, makes their parents happy, and because the instant gratification syndrome is easier to fulfill.
There is nothing in today's pop culture that supports the need for good classical music, or the music of the great modern composers. Our society does not support this. But drum corps can be different. Drum corps continues to be one of the few places where high achieving kids learn some excellent literature. Sure, it's often chopped up in its own way for field use, but I will take that anyday to what most of these kids listen to on the radio, what they learn in band, and what they are singing in show choir. But the fan has to understand that they, too, have been poorly conditioned by a culture that tells them "It's all about you." It's all about the money, it's all about the greed, it's all about the fun, and it's all about pleasing the fans. Businesses have been telling us for years that it's all about the customer, so it is obvious that we would apply this analogy to drum corps. And the fan is VERY VERY IMPORTANT, no doubt. But we cannot undo the illness of our culture's lack of musical artistry if our only concern is to conform to pleasing those who are already firmly held by the grip of this popular music. And I am not saying that drum corps should only be about education, but as always there is more to the story than just having fun and pleasing the fans.
Just some thoughts.
Jonathan
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Well, all I can say is that those who attended the annual Drum and Bugle Corps show sponsored in part by the Canton Bluecoats and the Canton Chamber of Commerce for the Pro Football Hall of Fame Festival were treated to another wonderful evening of sight and sound.
The weather was perfect, and this stadium here in Massillon, OH (Paul Brown stadium) is just fantastic for a corps show. Probably close to 6,000 or more in attendance, and the crowd was into it tonight.
Here are the scores:
8- 68.65 Kiwanis
7- 76.00 Magic
6- 80.75 Crossmen
5- 84.45 Glassmen
4- 86.05 Boston
3- 90.00 Bluecoats
2- 90.55 Madison
1- 91.75 Phantom
Kiwanis started the evening off in good fashion with some excellent musical choices. I like their percussion writing, and I really enjoyed their pit. Horns have some issues with blend and intonation, but I really dug the Peter Gun snippet in the middle of their show. They have a very good baritone soloist who "hams" it up good in the middle of the show and gets the crowd into things. They were in a tough spot at this show with all this competition here tonight, and I feel they held their own. My only real negative is the uniforms. Yuck. I think they really take away from the show and GE. Also, their guard is struggling at the moment, although the ideas are good.
Magic of Orlando, FL really put on a nice show tonight. WOW! I loved the musical book, and their horns can put out some sound. Big horn line, big drum line, excellent pit, and very good use of guard and staging. This show just needs cleaned, but from a construction standpoint I like what they have at the moment.
The Crossmen are performing a very fun musical book this year, and they continue to explore with creating one musical groove after another. Excellent drum line, good soloists, and the guard work was wonderful. Their guard was the first to really hit the crowd tonight with their color and incredible design. The only problem is that the guard looks better than the corps' uniforms. Here is another case where I just can stand those uniforms. They are hurting the Crossmen in visual and GE in my opinion. The horn line is performing a very demanding book, and the crowd on more than one occasion tonight started to clap in time to each new groove introduced. The show is really fun. Their downfall at this point is color scheme (in part due to those uniforms) and the fact that they are just way too dirty. Brass has all kinds of balance, pitch, and articulation problems. I just don't see this show cleaning enough by finals to put them into the top 12. But it is a great show.
The Glassmen of Toledo performed very well tonight. Not what I expected of the Dvorak "New World" Symphony (Symphony No. 9). But I like the music when they jazz it up and just take some chances. It is totally unexpected and those end up being some of their best moment. But there are too many time with the music does not lead anywhere. The show tends to just sit there at times. Perhaps just too much popcorn if you will. Too many one-count hits, failed climaxes, and in general it can become quite choppy. Horns have a very top heavy sound. Not a lot of lows, but the balance is ok even if this is what they desire as far as balance. Percussion is tasty for the most part, and their guard used some interesting colors. If this show had more direction in terms of musical phrasing it would be scoring a bit better. But they do perform very well and I did enjoy many aspects of this show tonight.
Boston Crusaders gave me my first real goose-bump moment tonight. Their opening is just to die for IMO. They open playing backfield, and the sound is just gorgeous. You hear the strains of Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring, and you can feel the hit coming, and man do they deliver. The crowd roared tonight when they hit that first impact. I love what they did with Candide. They don't take it seriously in terms of original content, but they have arranged it in a very classy way, having a lot of fun with the music. I love this show. It is artistic, fun, beautiful, and powerful, and once again these guys find a way to put one of the best ballads on the field. Holy baritones. Their baritone section has some beautiful moments in the show, and their blend was right on. Nice job. The closing arrangement of "Ode to Joy" is just fabulous. Their brass sounds great, percussion needs cleaning, and their guard is just gorgeous. Some of the best guard staging of the night. Watch out if this show cleans.
Bluecoats - Canton was rockin' tonight. I just can't begin to explain how I feel every time I watch them compete with the big boys. I remember the early 80s, and that first year in finals in 1987, and now THIS!!! :) WOW! Every year they just get better. This is an entertaining show from beginning to end. There are no dull moments, although there are some areas they could most likely generate a bit more GE. Cleaning the visual will certainly help. This is their big issue going into finals. They are all over the field, covering just about every inch of the 100 yards. But with this kind of design comes the need for absolute perfection in feet and upper body. They are very close. They won high brass tonight, and came in 2nd in drums and 2nd in Music GE. It's the visual that is killing them. They were .8 under Phantom in visual performance. So they have the show to do very well come finals, and these guys can do it. What a great guard and I loved the ending of the show when the trumpets start to play this incredible jazz lick, then the mellos add on, then low brass, then big hit, then a very cool silent guard feature with a near-perfect swoosh by the flags. Just awesome. Way to go Canton. No one is knocking them out of the top 6, and Madison needs to watch out.
Madison Scouts - this show is one of my favorites on the field along with Bluecoats and Phantom (and Cadets), but they have some issues to resolve. The Scouts can definitely pump out the sound, although I thought Bluecoats were probably the loudest tonight, and the Scouts arrangements are just excellent for the most part. They take the music of Carmen and just jazz it up in a very unique way. It's very creative and well done. But there are times when they are coming at you a million miles an hour, and then for some reason they have trouble finishing the thought, or the music and visual will just sort of die. Their guard does a fantastic job of telling the story, even with the snippets from West Side Story that are included in the middle portion of the show. But almost every impact kind of leaves me wanting more. Maybe it's just me. Their horn book is fabulous in terms of demand, and the soloists were just outstanding. Way to go guys. And I loved the snipped of Maleguena. The ending of the show is not soft anymore, but they still need to get something going visually. It feels as though they just stop and hit their final chord. I do like how some of the horn line does not start on the last chord. While half plays the final chord the other half swings their horns down, then they bring them back up and WOW - instant double volume. That part is cool, but they need something to lead into this. All in all, I love this show and it should be top 6, but I see Bluecoats possibly catching them.
Phantom Regiment - What can I say. This show is total class, artistry, and very innovative. Magnificent horn line, excellent arrangements, awesome percussion, and the colors in the guard were just something to behold. They walk onto the field in small groups with one person holding an umbrella in each group. They really set the stage for a little stroll in Europe (Paris), and the colors emulate the moods of that walk through Paris in a most appropriate way. The male dancer is one of the highlights to this show, and the tap dance routine is something all of you have to see. WOW. They even use real tap dance shoes in the pit to help bring the proper sounds of the dance into the audience. There are times I feel like I am watching a musical from the early Hollywood years with the dancer, the guard, the horns, the percussion, and the whole nine yards in choreography. The staging of this show is impecable. And the move to a bright orange in the guard towards the end is just fabulous. You have to see it. I can see how their guard jumped from 7th to 3rd a few nights ago. They are on fire now, and the color schemes in this show will rival anyone in the activity. The whole show projects a sense of class and showmanship that is very different for Phantom (because all their shows are classy), and they have adapted to that style. There are some issues in the horns in terms of balancing each section. Some of the players are quite strong and can stick out from time to time, but the demand is there. The sound is professional, and they articulate the best. Their drill is fast, it makes sense, the musical book is very demanding, and the trumpet line is just amazing. They have some incredible double tongue passages that will leave you breathless. And the contras have some nice melody passages (yes, contras and melody). Of course, this entire show is constructed on melody. There is nothing in the show musically that is not leading to a climax or to further development in a true sense of composition. Their GE scores are probably being hurt only because of dirt. They just need to clean. I believe the composition is there. I can't say enough good things about this show. Total artistry!!!
It was a great night of drum corps.
Jonathan Willis
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In reality, every corps can make big competitive moves going into championship week. Some shows need cleaned more than others, while some need tweaked and refined. Every kid out there is going to hunker down and give 110% these final two weeks. This is the exciting thing about drum corps.
Now, to be more specific here is what I think:
1. Canton Bluecoats - this show has so much potential it is not funny. But their drill is really holding them back at the moment. It is so demanding, and probably covers the field as well as anyone this year. If they can nail this come finals and their visual ex scores goes up as a result, so will their GE and performance captions, and I think they can take 4th at finals.
2. Madison has a show that has that entertainment factor like the Bluecoats, but they are marching a little stronger at the moment. 'Coats could beat them in both brass and percussion come finals, but Madison can also light it up. With a 3rd place in GE at Indy I would start to watch their performance captions. If GE stays where it is in the 3rd slot, and if brass and percussion go up a bit more, then they will pass BD and take 4th, maybe 3rd.
3. SCV - Santa Clara can certainly make a move. Anytime you are lower in score and place you have the chance to jump more corps. But here is the problem. Crown is a solid 7th I feel, and Boston pulled closer to Crown at Indy. Where SCV is lacking this year seems to be Guard, GE, Visual. To knock off both Boston and Crown would be difficult considering their guards and their GE programs. And to beat Boston at Foxboro? Well, I just don't see that happening. Chances are that SCV will stay put.
4. Crossmen - I still feel like the Crossmen, with their entertaining show, can do some damage come finals. I like them to jump one to two slots. They are close enough to the Colts to nip them in Foxboro, but they are several points behind Spirit. From what I hear though, Bones is still very dirty. This could mean they have a chance if they can clean, and it could mean it is too late and 13th is about as good as they can do.
Just a side note: the interesting thing about cleaning, and so many people mention it when they talk about how their favorite corps will do come finals, is that it is not easy to do. If a show is not somewhat clean at this point how are we to assume that the kids will get it in the next 10 days or so. The other thing to remember is this: even when a show cleans we must also assume that the other shows are cleaning. This means that movement could be limited.
It seems to me at this point that two corps really have a shot for the title, Cavaliers and Cadets. Phantom and BD could be darkhorses, but I wouldn't hold my breath on those picks. But yes, Phantom jumped into 3rd in 1993 when most of us thought Cadets and Star could not be challeneged. And they topped an amazing Cadets show in 1996 to tie BD. Performance problems can lead to some interesting placements at finals. In 1996 the Cadets had what I felt was the championship show going into their final selection. Then half way through Red Pony there was a musical tear, a bad one, in which low brass and percussion were way off. The visual suffered as did the musical score, and this opened the door for Phantom and BD. As it was, the Cadets still only finished .5 away from the title winners, and had they nailed their show they would have won by .3 I feel, leaving BD and Phantom in a tie for 2nd. Now this is just my opinion, but the point is that these things can happen.
With shows as difficult as the Cadets and Cavaliers have, they will have to perform very well on finals night.
Jonathan
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Captions were all over the place the last few shows, and for the entire season. Just because you don't see it as much in the top 2 or 3 does not mean that's the way it is with the rest of the corps. Phantom was 7th in guard two nights ago. Last night they took 3rd. BD was 2nd in Visual ex two days ago. Last night they were 5th, and by a wide margin. Some corps are getting killed in GE, yet their performance captions are doing well.
Even in the good ole days, as many of you just love to refer to them (and I have been going to shows since 1979), the corps on top usually have more consistency in captions. That's why they are on top. :)
Jonathan
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The interesting thing with Phantom is that they went from 7th in guard last night to 3rd in guard tonight. WOW. Great job. It's all a matter of performance. The guard can change so much in a show.
Cadets took both GE captions and Drums, and Cavies continue to show their typical excellence in brass, music ensemble, and visual, but they also squeaked by Cadets for high guard tonight too. Congrats to both of these fine corps. If these two perform as well as they are capable of, perhaps DCI should allow them to tie for the title.
Blue Devils actually fell back to 6th in brass, they took 5th in percussion again, and they fell from 2nd in overall visual ex from last night to 5th tonight. Madison actually took 3rd in visual ex tonight, and they took 3rd in total GE. So if this cleans this show could be dangerous.
And Phantom, what a night. Great job and a great show. This is where they should be, and who knows where this show will be come finals.
Great job to all.
Go Bluecoats!!!!!
Go Cadets!!!!!
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(DCI Major) DCI Midwestern - Evening, Indianapolis, IN
July 30, 2005
Place Corps Score
DIVISION I
1 The Cadets 94.150
2 The Cavaliers 94.075
3 Phantom Regiment 90.975
4 Blue Devils 90.900
5 Madison Scouts 90.725
6 Bluecoats 88.975
7 Carolina Crown 86.000
8 Boston Crusaders 85.900
9 Santa Clara Vanguard 85.175
10 Blue Knights 83.375
11 Glassmen 82.275
12 Spirit from JSU 81.625
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My apologies. With Magic of Orlando I meant to say that the 2002 brass line was amazing. Not 2000. Sorry.
Jonathan
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My apologies. With Magic of Orlando I meant to say that the 2002 brass line was amazing. Not 2000. Sorry.
Jonathan
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My apologies. With Magic of Orlando I meant to say that the 2002 brass line was amazing. Not 2000. Sorry.
Jonathan
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My apologies. With Magic of Orlando I meant to say that the 2002 brass line was amazing. Not 2000. Sorry.
Jonathan
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Underated meaning hornlines that did not win high brass or help a corps to a championship. There are a lot of those, so let me offer my opinion on brass lines that should have won high brass but didn't.
1985 Garfield - I thought they did win high brass but someone told me that Devils won. This was the best horn line up to that point, and they performed one of the most difficult books ever in DCI, even by today's standards.
1994 Cadets - now this one will turn some heads, BUT...I honestly feel that Cadets played better on finals night. They should have won high brass and high percussion. Well, they actually did win high drums that night, but BD got the trophy.
2001 Cadets - should have won high brass, plain and simple.
2003 Phantom Regiment - should have won high brass, plain and simple.
Yes, I am a Cadets homer (along with the Bluecoats)...so sue me. :)
Now, here is a list of some very good horn lines that people don't often talk about on this site.
1979 - 1980 Guardsmen - I loved these guys and really miss them..
1978 27th Lancers
1980s Squires of upstate New York. They had some excellent lines that many may forget about or simply have never seen. Don't think they ever made top 12, but they were in the top 25 a few times I think.
1984 Phantom Regiment - holy cow, what a great horn line. BD, Cadets, and SCV all tied for high brass that year, but there is no way Phantom was any worse than those lines. And 1812 was, and still is, one of my favorite closers.
1989 Suncoast Sound - incredible stuff (1985 and 1986 are also very very good)
1996 - 1998 Magic of Orlando - the Orlando years were very good to them, and their horns were excellent.
2000 Magic of Orlando - WOW!
1987 Phantom Regiment - if it were not for their gaff in the sopranos in the opening selection, and if not for all the drops in the guard, this show would have beat Cavaliers and BD for the 3rd spot at finals in 1987 (which is where they were after semis.) But what a great horn line. Honestly, in terms of technique, intonation, musicianship and demand, they were every bit as good as SCV and Cadets.
1990 SCV - Awesome line for a 6th place corps.
1992 Crossmen, although this line seems to get good credit, so they probably do not belong on this list. I think everyone realizes just how good this line was.
Bluecoats 1988, 1990, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 - every one of these lines, and others, are fantastic. We talk jazz and we usually talk BD or Madison, but these guys do it well. And these days they do it as well as anyone.
Jonathan
tired of it all
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
This debate rages on. Lete me put it this way:
I do not feel it is right to tell anyone to go or stay, whether it be DCI or DCP. The fact is that those are decisions for each individual to make. But in support of the original poster, I, too, get very tired of the negativity. We all complain from time to time, so I understand that. But some on this board complain all the time. It's never ending. I realize people have the right to complain, just as I have the right to complain about their complaining. It's a cycle that can go on endlessly. It's called arguing, debating, and it can be a good thing. But I have to wonder at what point do those people, who can never find happiness in DCI, decide enough is enough.
We all have the right to voice our opinion, but at some point if we are that pro-active about what we want, and against the system (whatever that may be) then we have to voice those concerns and take action in a manner that is conducive to change. The constant griping on this board will honestly not change much, but it does carry the possibility of upsetting those who happen to enjoy and love drum corps the way it is (count me in on that). I love this activity, and like many of you, I have donated tons of money, purchased CD, DVDs, T Shirts, you name it, and I have given my time. So sure, we have the right to complain, to disagree from time to time, and to propose change, but ultimately if this is what we want then there are better channels and methods of making those positive changes. Just complaining ALL THE TIME for the sake of complaining is not going to get it done. And some of you complain, and complain, and complain. Nothing makes you happy, everything is a conspiracy, DCI judging is fixed, corps are slotted...wow, it is just amazing the stuff you can read on here. Perhaps that is why I like DCP so much, yet what I really enjoy is discussing corps from a positive perspective. I enjoy writing reviews. I enjoy discussing problems in the activity with those who wish to come up with constructive fixes, but what I absolutely HATE, are those that do nothing but complain. I guess that is just me.
So it's not a matter of saying those people should go, but for me it's more a matter of what is keeping you people here? Is your life healthy and happy when you are writing your book of complaints on a daily basis? Are you making any dent in the drum and bugle corps universe? I love how many of you have started your petitions when you have not been happy with certain things. That's the way to do it. Often those things have been discussed in a professional manner. But the truth is that some on here never, ever, seem to be happy...and they bring their unhappiness to everyone else. Right or wrong, it simply becomes difficult to take at times.
Jonathan