JimF-LowBari
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Posts posted by JimF-LowBari
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In 1973 Westshoremen were inactive. The following year they reformed and came in last at DCA. 1982 they came in 2nd place, less than two points behind the winning corps. (Actually Westshore had been winning all year and Sunrisers caught up to them. If DCA had been 2 weeks earlier... b**bs )
So What The <bleep> happened that a dead ### last place corps almost won it all in a space of nine seasons. Here's my list for this corps:
1) Had large percentage of rookies first few years who stayed with the pain for the good of the corps.
2) BM Larry Hershman set realistic goals during the tough years. We went against the DCA big boys and got clobbered. So we heard "#### the other corps, just top last weeks scores" and "Yeah they beat us, they've been around longer. We're not ready to beat them (pause) YET!"
3) Nothing succeeds like success. As we got better and became an "up and coming" corps more vets from other corps started joining.
4) Improve the staff as the corps improves. Went from local HS directors to likes of John Flowers (drums), Ray Eyler (horns) and Frank Dorrite(sp!) (horns/charts).
5) Good luck helps. 1975 Yankee Rebels had #1 drum line while whole corps came in 6th. Two years later the corps was gone and lot of the drum line was with us. Our drum line suddenly went from the weak poit to the anchor of the corps. Anchor as in being #### good and showing how to have a winners attitude.
6) I left and they got REAL good. ^0^
Looking for people with similar experiences or stories. Would really like to hear from 80s Bluecoats as Hershman joined their staff in 1984.
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I believe small corps appeal to a different type of kid. From my experience we seem to attract those students who are seeking, more than anything else, a second family.
You have to step outside the D1 paradigm to get D3 to really work.
As I posted before, I started with a crappy (inactive almost 2 years) Senior corps and came in last place for a year straight in both DCA and RCA (small Sr circuit). What I was looking for was a place to keep playing a horn after HS so it didn't bother me. My last year we came in 6th at DCA Finals.
Having been in the Sr version of both a bad Div II/III corps and in the middle of Div I, all I can say is
. I was in the same corps for six years but yet it wasn't the same corps at the beginning as at the end. The mentality of what the members want is totally different.And the best part is, no one is rigt, no one is wrong. Just different.
PS - "It's all for the kids." Right?
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Just to clear up one point: Shenadoah Sound (the 12-15 member corps I mentioned earlier) is a DCA corps. Sounds like Jester is the smallest DCI corps.
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First of all! If a corps only has only 15 members or even 30 they should not be allowed to compete at the DCI level! This has nothing to do with numbers. It has to do with Managment most of the time these corps including Jester have made no real effort to recruit! You don't see any visible sign of Jester or alot of these others corps at BOA shows or even local marching band circuit shows! So you all have to stop making excuses for these corps. No reason why Jester along with many other Division 3 corps can not go out with more then 30 members.
Translation - If you don't have the $$$$ to recruit like bigger corps, just fold up your tent and stay home.
And we wonder why Div II/III has corps going inactive almost every year.
As for "at the DCI level", there is no other place for Junior corps to go.
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Sure Does!!!
I thought I was gonna die a few time on that. And it always seemed to rain or snow whenever I took it.
Better (and cheaper) palces to stop on I-68 also. Have relatives in Huntington and I-81/I-68 to Morgentown is the way I drive even with the turnpike closer to my house.
Thinking of Cadets breaking down on the mountains between Morgentown and Charleston :sshh:
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If someone is seriously thinking about this, I'd suggest buying the CDs, DVDs or go to DCA weekend to see for yourself. Who knows, you might be looking for something and find something different you'd like to try. It might be a different musical style or changing size of corps (Open/Class A),etc, etc.
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After reading some of last nights posts I'm glad that some people here realize:
1) DCP is not the be all/end all of Drum Corps
2) Drum Corps is not the be all/end all of what is needed to help kids
Wow, a dose of overnight reality....
PS - I'd mention names but I'd probably miss a name or two......
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Let me start by saying I've seen Shenadoah Sound put on an enjoyable field show with about 12-15 members (counting CG and DM).
Having said that, any rule excluding corps based on number of warm bodies on the field is idiotic beyond belief.
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Amplified Voice = New Coke
Oh c'mon.... amps are only there so the mallet players can play with proper technique.
Something I remembered from what..... 3 years ago.
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Speaking of Larry, are pigeons performance issues? 100 inquiring minds on Long Island still want to know. :P
And both disasters took place at Hershey which is Unca Larrys least favorite place anymore.
Just too bad there isn't a DVD of 1980 DCA. ^0^ My wife still doesn't believe my story of Walt "Moses" Kelly parting the Dove Sea with his starters pistol. :P :P :P :P
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Actually, I think that these are different issues. The linked thread is talking about the Huntington show, while the APDs were recorded in Columbia.
OK, makes more sense.
Anyone want a recording of my old corps screwing up royally during a show? Horn line got out of sync the night the "Bugle Opus 1" albums were recorded.
Legend has it Larry Hershman (our BusMang) offered big bucks for "studio magic" to hide it. (It's there if you know what to listen for.) Hated it then, laugh about it now. -
Heh, I'm totally confused at this point as this talks about a communications issue on a change in counting during a drum break. Amps don't appear to be involved here/
Heh again as I'm against amps, not a big fan of current DCI Div I but still following this as it is just toooooo interesting.
Edit: Heh (third time) as Matt posted as I was typing. Can anyone tell me how well the corps on the field can hear amped vocals? Sat on the 10 yard line at Gettysburg which was well outside of where the amps were facing. In a quiet section of bleachers OI could hardly hear the vocals. And behind the amps on a noisy field in the middle of the corps
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Is this the drum break with the "Where are we?" vocals. (Red Queen wasn't at the early show I saw.)
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Matt, I missed the orignal report on this. Was there a malfunction of an amp or was GH unhappy enough with the results that he didn't want the APD to go out. Or unclear enough there is major guesswork on the reason?
Asking because I saw Cadets at Gettysburg preview and Cadets must rely very heavily on the amps being set perfectly to get the show across. IMO, GH believes "cutting edge" = "doing things differently" and this time he bit off more than he could chew. I'll give him credit for admitting there are problems going on.
And before anyone flames on my "cutting edge" comment. I've worked in the Computer field (programming/admin) for 25+ years now. Have seen too many vendors say their "stuff" is on the cutting edge because they do it differently from other companies. Just 'cause it's different doesn't always mean better. We don't call it the "bleeding edge" (leading edge) for nothing.
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Wow, last few posts remind me of one of the big reasons I'm against amps. I marched a few years in the small Sr circuit (RCA) and lot of corps had small numbers and small amounts of $$$ to spend. Instead of looking for outside experts or more stuff to buy they tried to put on the best show they could with the resources they had. Unbalanced horn lines, large amount of rookies, etc, etc be ####ed they still put an entertaining show on the field.
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My lack of Junior Corps background stikes again ZZAAAPPPPP!!!
As for the Maple Leaf... time for new bifocals.... :(
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Hey Jim,
Speaking of "Nazi Gestabo", the Pittsburgh Rockets famous headgear was original bought from the German goverment and were used by that countries police force....Maybe a story for another time.....
Pgh Guy Bari 2
John G
That might be a idea for a Mike Boo column. "Your Uniform Came from Where?". Westshoremen was in the middle of the used uniform market in the mid 1970s. Bought used Blue Devil unis in 1976. Then I saw on another thread that the NY Defenders bought the unis we got rid of when we bought from BD. Funny thing was the cadet style jackets we sold to Defenders didn't "breathe" worth a crap so you had humidity of 150% inside. Always thought they ended up in the Toxic Waste dump instead of being "recycled". b**bs
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Thanks for the memory jog Fran...
Sunrisers - aka "Santa Flushing Vanguard" :P
No, no - that's Flushing as in Flushing, NY B)
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Disclaimer: No disrespect intended to Hanover or National YMCA groups. Following is a light hearted look at a different kind of gig.
Different <hades>, this beat out playing for a lumber yard as the wierdest gig I even did. The gig was to play during the opening ceremonies of the National YMCA Gymnastics Championships. Think of a small size Olympic ceremony inside and you get the idea.
Corps showed up an hour before we were due to play to work out any "logistics problems" which was a nice way to put it. Ceremonies were held in a AHL ice hockey arena built out of concrete in the mid 1930s. (Remember the words "indoors" and "built out of concrete".) There was no room for the corps on the floor of the arena as the space was taken up by 1400+ young people. Soooooo, where to put the corps?
Answer was to put us on the walkway halfway up the seating area. Walkway is only a few feet wide so the entire corps (about 60 members) were spread out in a single line. IOW - one end of the horn line was 100-150 feet from the other end of the horn line, withj drums in the middle. Drum Major stood on the back of the speakers platform on the floor (waaay down there) so the whole corps could see him. (Got a nice shot of the back of his head on the evening news. :P )
That would be bad enough but add on the acoustics from Hades (remember "built out of concrete?). The floor is also all concrete and as the athletes came in their bodies helped to muffle the echo effect. You could actually hear the difference with people in the seats. Only way to play was ignore the echo hitting you about one beat late and watch the DM. Or if you had to listen, listen to the person next to you and hope they were right. :sshh:
We played for 30 minutes while people started coming into the place (starting with the acoustics of a totally empty concrete box
). Then did the National Athem and played while the athletes came in (20+ minutes) followed by many speeches. Then played a couple numbers while the place emptied out.Worst part was the acoustics (duh) and heat/humidity in the place.
Best part was we didn't have to play "YMCA" but they did put the Village Peoples version over the loudspeakers. Kids really got into it and some of the corps members did too.
PS to Jeff and Cozy. Before the gig I took a bathroom break under the stands of the Stadium. The entrances to the field were gated off so that killed the temptation of playing a few notes there. But I was muttering "This one's for you HERCO" as I was.. ahem.. taking care of business. <**>
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.....as long as we're not under water!!
If Colonial Park is under water start looking for Noah and his Ark..
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Thus why I mentioned that they could have two sizes of amps, it was later on in my post.
OK, missed that part. Don't know enough about all the stadiums DCI performs at to go further on this.
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I would think it would just be a standard mixing (Sound) board and standard amp and a snake. <rest clipped for brevity>
Standard amp is what makes the idea unworkable IMO. Reason is it sounds like the same amp would be used at places as huge as Whitewater and as small as Westminster, MD and Gettysburg, PA. Either Westy and G-burg would get blasted back to the Stone Age by the volume or 90% of Whitewater fans couldn't hear a thing.
PS - Anyone at the ends of the stands at Gettysburg couldn't hear Cadets amp beacuse it was pointed away from them.
And audiodb.... <smacking head> NOW I get you, I was beginning to worry buddy.
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I am just going to guess but was it Lasalle Cadets or Hurricanes? I am thinking it was Lasalle because of the leaf on the headgear.
And thank you Nanci for letting me know Keith answered :P Psst yerself ^0^ :P
Good idea on the Hurrcs but not sure what headgear they wore in early 60s.
Pretty sure it's the Reilly Raiders fom Philly. Reilly always did Irish music and their attitude was "get in my way I'll march over you". Reilly beat the SF Renegades by about 40 years in wearing bad ### black unis. From what I read (thank you Carol Hooten) the brim of the hats were worn 2 finger widths above the nose (check the cartoon again). Again, wearing a hat that low was considered bad ###ed. Not to mention wearing something that looked like a Nazi "Gestapo" hat that soon after the end of WWII.
Never saw the corps but have some of their recordings. Considered one the the best Sr corps in 50s/60s and unfortuately broke up in the late 1960s.
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As I interpreted the post where that idea originated, the objective was to provide a "standard" amplification system. I just thought it would be more practical to have DCI provide four such systems, as opposed to 100 different TEPs providing one each.
I don't think the corps will go for this idea, though, as it "stifles creativity".
How would a "standard" amp system work as each stadium is different in layout and size.
Probably misreading "standard" so thought I'd ask...
Man would amps set up for Whitewater/Gillette Stadium blow the stands back at Gettysburg or Westminster. ^0^
What turned a corps around
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
In 1973 Westshoremen were inactive. The following year they reformed and came in last at DCA. 1982 they came in 2nd place, less than two points behind the winning corps. (Actually Westshore had been winning all year and Sunrisers caught up to them. If DCA had been 2 weeks earlier... )
So What The <bleep> happened that a dead ### last place corps almost won it all in a space of nine seasons. Here's my list for this corps:
1) Had large percentage of rookies first few years who stayed with the pain for the good of the corps.
2) BM Larry Hershman set realistic goals during the tough years. We went against the DCA big boys and got clobbered. So we heard "#### the other corps, just top last weeks scores" and "Yeah they beat us, they've been around longer. We're not ready to beat them (pause) YET!"
3) Nothing succeeds like success. As we got better and became an "up and coming" corps more vets from other corps started joining.
4) Improve the staff as the corps improves. Went from local HS directors to likes of John Flowers (drums), Ray Eyler (horns) and Frank Dorrite(sp!) (horns/charts).
5) Good luck helps. 1975 Yankee Rebels had #1 drum line while whole corps came in 6th. Two years later the corps was gone and lot of the drum line was with us. Our drum line suddenly went from the weak poit to the anchor of the corps. Anchor as in being #### good and showing how to have a winners attitude.
6) I left and they got REAL good.
Looking for people with similar experiences or stories.