JimF-LowBari
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Posts posted by JimF-LowBari
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One of the things that drives me nuts checking on early DC history is the era (40s/50s?) when corps started to be known by a name instead of a Post number and name. Real easy to know that AL Post #199 of Hawthorne is the Cabs but unless you see a corps name and Post listed together it can be a crap shoot if there is one corps or two. Thank goodness PADCHOF and www.dbcna.com have a column for sponsors.
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Hi Jim. The York White Roses appeared in 1975 (12th place) and 1976 (9th place) at RCA. The Hershey Choclatiers never appeared at RCA.
One of the problems with reconstructing this history has been sorting out the verifiable facts from the unverifiable (I think.... I sort of remember... it probably was somewhere around that year...). What I have documented is what I was able to verify from (more or less) reliable sources.
I'll be sending my files on to Gary Matczak for posting on the Erie Thunderbirds website, and to CorpsReps, after I make one more check of all the data.
Thanks Roger and know the feeling all too well. You find a bunch of info but no way to know if it is all accurate. And of course the last thing you want to do is pass on bad info as "fact".
Westshore competed against "that corps" :P in RCA during 1976 and possibly 1977 (my RCA years are blending together). There was a Hershey/York merger sometime during that period but there is real confusion exactly when. And I know better than to rely on what I heard announced at the shows as Westshoremen got called the WSM-Bonnis Scots a few years after "Bonnie Scots" was dropped. If I ever track down someone who was a member during that time (and has a good memory) I'll see what I can find. Asked about this on RAMD a few years ago and I'll check if anything concrete was posted.
Only reason I asked is I lived a few miles from Hershey during this time so my interest in a "next door" corps is high. :P When my first corps folded I probably would have become a Chocolatier except I found out about Westshoremen first.
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Hey! Are you saying the old sounds BITE??? Why I oughta..... :P
N'Yuck, N'Yuck, N'Yuck..... :P
Now how to describe the sound of the one valvers in my basement.
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Jim, I remember doing some 37th gigs in 79 & 80 as well!
I also think Hershey folded at the end of the 79, unless they stayed around for a little while and did some parades, but I DO remember a few people that came over to Westshore in 80 from there.
Where's Handy? I think he was one of them?!?!? (come to think of it)
Figures, I was away at college Fall 1977 to Dec 1979. Just another wierd ###ed December graduate. And Fall of 1980 I was out of corps due to rotating shifts at the Navy Base. Totally missed the 37th Regiment gigs. :(
Thought Hershey stuck together until DCA was held at Hershey the first time and that was it. Crap, I even bought a Chocolatier pin and patch between Prelims and Finals. If PADCHOF ever wants scans of PA corps memorabilia I've got a great start.
PS - 37th Regiment came from our first score when we reformed in 1974. Got a grand and glorious 37.35 the weekend before DCA.
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Ooops, sent this to www.dbcna.com while back and forgot the padchof site...
New one:
37th Regiment 1977-1978 (think 1978 also) Sr parade corps from Harrisburg.
Corps was actually made up of Westshoremen who did Halloween parades to raise $$$ for Westshore. So many member were away at college (like me :( ) Hershman didn't want half a corps to appear in public. So a new corps was "created" wearing straw hats and flannel shirts.
Update:
Keystone Kavaliers 1973-1974 Harrisburg/Linglestown Sr corps that never got off the ground.
Corps formed by ex-Westshore members when the corps folded. Keystone folded and most of the 24 or so members joined Westshore when Westshore reformed in early 1974.
Have also heard about a VFW corps from Hanover that merged with the Hanover AL Post (aka Lancers) in late 40s/early 50s. Will have to ask when I get a chance.
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Ya sure it's not just a combination of how the music was written and how the kids were instructed to play it? All else being equal, arranging style and musicianship probably count for more than anything.
*Shrug* Could be but there are still old shows I listen to and the horns (sops especially) have a certain "bite" (can't think of a better term). As this was the piston/rotor age I'm thinking horn construction. Would be interesting to read a comparision between the horns by someone who understands the subject.
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that would be 79,.........................1978 was in Edinboro
DCA Show
Music Spectacular
16 July 1978 Edinboro, PA
1. Rochester Crusaders 72.25
2. Reading Buccaneers 70.75
3. Westshoremen 69.55
4. Guelph Royalaires 50.35
5. Chicago Connection 46.90
Exhibition: Erie Thunderbirds
DCA Show
Music Spectacular
15 July 1979 Erie, PA
1. Buccaneers 77.55 (0.5)
2. Westshoremen 66.30 (0.4)
3. Rochester Crusaders 57.15 (0.2)
4. Erie Thunderbirds 56.80 (0.2)
5. Brass Factory 46.25 (0.3)
Exhibition: Dansville New Horizon
here is the results from the junior show held in 78 in Edinboro
Thanks for putting my memory back together Gary. Also reminded me we knocked off Reading the night before at Canton in 78 (second time ever and both in 78). We thought we would really get them in 1979 as we really improved. Surprised us as Buccs REALLY got their crap together and won DCA in 1979. Man, check the 11 point gap in scores. :sshh:
Roger, have you hit any wierdness with Hershey Chocolatiers/York White Roses in 76 (and 77?). Pretty sure they merged that year but I see all versions of the corps name in different places.
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In either 78 or 79, the White Sabers gave a stand still (or was it marking time) exihibition at the Erie Sunday afternoon show. Pretty sure of the year as our "Western Tour" was Canton, OH Saturday night and Erie Sunday afternoon. One of those years the Erie stadium was being remodeled so the show was at Edinboro U. So it was the year the show was at the usual stadium. (Now why do I remember watching from the stands instead of getting ready for retreat?)
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Conical has nothing to do with it. The first bugles picked up by civilian drum corps were what the military termed "field trumpets," in large part because they were much more cylindrical than their predecessors. There weren't hard and fast rules about what bugles were; they simply were based on whatever ideas had been incorporated before and what was needed at the time; the design of that final model of military bugle was influenced by a desire for greater distance and projection, until it was rendered obsolete by the radio.
And for anyone who hasn't read the "History of Drum Corps", "modern" DC started after World War I with army surplus valveless bugles. Valves and other mechanisms were added thru the decades so the corps could be more musical. Interesting that the push to add valves was lead by the corps members themselves and not outside interests.And even adding that first valve was a controversial and painful process. The valve was horizontal so it could be hidden by the hand holding the horn. (It still looked like a valveless bugle to the crowd.) Also some groups (American Legion/VFW?) at first did not allow the valve to be used while performing. I have a horn with a valve lock so the horn could play only the open or valve 1 notes.
Later when some soloists realized if they pulled the tuning slide out the whole way it lowered the tone to a valve 2 note. A few sessions of rubbing the tuning slide with steel wool or sandpaper make the slide a lot easier to use.
As for what old G (in this case P/R) bugles could do, I just listened to 1980 Rhode Island Matadors. Sorry but I have yet to hear current Bb horns played in such a heart stopping manner. Don't know if it's the key or construction but that kind of sound is missing today.
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Defenders, Troy, NY @ 1981 DCA Philadelphia, PA
OMG my first Drum Corps uni Any Defenders out there to give info on THIS?????? Like Jeff said Westshore had these from about 1970 until 1976 when we bought used unis from the Blue Devils. I never freakin' DREAMED another corps bought these "powder blue bake ovens". (They didn't breath too well.)
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1) All of us recognize their important contribution to marching band activities but they do not, have not, and never will belong in the drum and bugle corps activity.
2) Logistically, they are not designed for the rigors of daily use and abuse in the drum and bugle corps activity
3) They would provide no serious volume, a key component to our activity
4) Kids who march woodwind instruments during the marching band season, enjoy crossing over to drum corps to provide additional growth and challenges as a musician
IMNSHO... :P
#1) Sounds like the A-word to me, except I don't like amps in MB either.
#2) REALLY sounds like amps, Oooops... *crash* :sshh:
#3) Waiting for proposal to use amps to balance sound of entire corps. (NOT being sarcastic)
#4) REAL Cool....
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Bugles are constructed differently, the bell is much more conical, there are a million differences. Listen to the hellcats or the old guards Bb single valve bugle line, it sounds nothing like a modern trumpet. How many people here have played a real bugle? I am sure a good amount, but its sad how many have not.
But are the Bb horns used by todays corps constructed in the bugle manner or is their no difference between them and Bbs in a marching band? Asking because one of the reasons DCI gave for going to "all key" (IOW Bbs) was getting used Bbs would be cheaper because more were on the market. And we all know that market is from the MB world.
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Just looked at srcorps and interesting how the same corps keep showing up in 11th or 12th during the 70s.
"Repeat visitors" include
Pittsburgh Rockets
Westshoremen (aka Westshoremen Bonnie Scots)
MBI
Guelph Royalaires
Erie Thunderbirds
and that's just a quick look....
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Hey Goalieguy,
I just went and checked my records and MBI are on BOTH the 1986 and 1987 albums....1986 corps is on Vol #3 and 1987 is on Vol #1...
Pgh Guy Bari 2
Extraordinaire
Freind of SlyCooley1
PADCHOF
John G
1977 had "DCA West" for 11th and 12th. Both MBI and Chicago Connection made the album and that just had people buzzing about all that Senior Corps "way out there".
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Thanks all, especially Pat since I was too busy for some reason :P to see the beginning of Finals in the late 70s. Will have to check my album/tape collection to see what was going on in the way of recording. One of the late 90s DCA was never released...
Will probably have to give a yell out for any Boys of 76 or Guelph to find out about 1975 as I just can't remember #### about the start of Finals. Guess the monsoon at the end drowned my memories. :sshh:
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As someone who started trombone in 3rd grade (and that sucker cost $150 in 1965.) I just have two things to say to all WW players who picked up a brass instrument.
AND ^OO^ Thanks for all the input, think this is really a good thing for the future of Drum Corps.
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Instead of hijacking another thread anymore thought I'd start a new one. Back in the Day :P of record albums (them flat black thingies with a hole in the middle) 12 corps would be recorded for DCA every year. Seemed like every few years DCA would change how recording the 11th and 12th place corps would be done. I'm trying to fill in the blanks and this is what I know for sure (IOW - I was there at the time and my memory still works :sshh: )
1974 - 11th and 12th place corps competed. Hanover and Emmaus scored in the mid 40s and think that was the last time 12 corps competed at Finals.
1976 - 11th (Westshoremen) and 12th (Guelph) did a stand still in front of the mics before the gates opened for Finals.
1985 - 11th and 12th (Westshoremen) did a pre Finals exhibition.
Any blanks filled would greatly appreciated for historys sake.
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Harrisburg Westshoremen do, even tho our name is basedon being from the West Shore of the river :P
And "back in the day" we split the difference by having drill rehearsal in the middle the of river.
OK, OK it was on an island in the middle of the river. :P
Lancers - not only do we practice in Hanover, we're still in the same American Legion Post.
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1976 Westshoremen were a non-DCA member corps thanks to coming in 15th in 1975. We were either the last or next to last (I think) corps at Prelims and came in 11th. Instead of having #12 (Guelph) and #11 (us) do a pre-show exhibition, DCA decided to have us play in concert formation in front of the mics. Make that, play in front of the mics before the gates opened up... AKA ####### NOW!!!!
Guelph played first while we stood around tryin to catch our breath. Let's just say the better performance was at Prelims and thank goodness we didn't have only an hour or so between Prelims and a exhibition. The recording makes me cringe for a few reasons.....
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I think at that show I was blown away when a corps came off the line with Crown Imperial....I hope I'm not getting my shows mixed up. I've only been to 1, 2 or 3, 1 being in 1980, it was a junior and senior corps show and it was a blast. I believe it was our first show on first tour. What a gas!
Sunrises played Crown Imperial in 79 and 80 according to corpsreps. Knew I heard them play it but couldn't remember the exact years. Sun was definitely the closest thing to junior corps in terms of music style in those days of DCA.
Sunrisers aka Santa Fushing Vanguard :P
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For DCA the opening show of the year would have been held Saturday night (Memorial Day weekend) at either Mount Carmel or Danville, PA (show moved in '76). This was a 5 or 6 corps exihibition with 4 or 5 top corps (Cabs, Bucs, Yankee Rebels, Westshoremen on a good year, etc) and one or two "lesser" corps (Chocolatiers, Westshoremen on a bad year :P ) starting off the show.
And it seems like only locals or DC fans knew where the #### either place is located.
Handful of parades by now, depending on where the Fireman held their county convention.
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Had a chance one time to lie my face off but just couldn't do it for a few reasons. I was wearing my Keystone Kavaliers jacket at college and someone who had just discovered corps asked if I just got back from Chicago.
Finally hit me the only "Cavaliers" they knew was that green DCI crew from the Midwest. :P And for the record, my jacket was purple and Kavaliers was mis-spelled with a 'C'. But why in the Hades would Rosemont/Park Ridge/Chicago have a keystone on the jacket?
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two questions:
what caused RCA to be formed, and what killed it?
For years I thought the last RCA Champs was 1977. Then found out out seven corps went to Niagra Falls and that was it.
Thought the smaller corps died out but the 1978 RCA Champs had corps that lasted a few more years and some didn't become DCA members. Yeah good question....I have same questions on ICA (International Corps Assoc) the lasted only a few years in the mid 80s. Only reason to remember ICA anymore was it was had Empire Statesmen and Steel City as members during their early years.
Oh crap.... I just realized I competed at DCA, RCA and ICA Championships during my "career".
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Another thing is that back then, there were so many corps, especially when you were in DCA's AND RCA's, that we had a show somewhere most every weekend. I look at the schedule now and I feel bad for these lesser known or struggling corps, because they only have a few shows.
And every weekend from Memorial Day to Labor Day for us. Season started with Mount Carmel/Danville exhibition until DCA.
Imagine a championships where there are 16 corps and only a couple of them are from DCA's. That's what it was like back then.Lot of times someone tries to compare number of Sr corps between the 70s and today by using DCA Prelims counts. Have to remind them lot of corps went to RCA the weekend before then stayed home Labor Day.
Where was your highest finish at DCA Championships?
in DCA - All-Age Corps Discussions
Posted
Last time I played horn at DCA was 1979. We came in 6th which was corps best at the time.
First time at DCA was 1974, we came in 15 out of 15 in a rebuilding year.
Improved every year in between. :)