MikeZ
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Posts posted by MikeZ
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If a corps cuts you, go find a competing corps and work your butt off to kick the original 'cutting' corps' ###!
Interestingly enough, this happened for me. In Nov. of 1993 I was looking for somewhere to march. I had just finished my senior marching season in high school as a clarinet player, but was looking to march drumcorps and was willing to do anything to get on the road. I lived in Norther KY and the closest corps were Glassmen and Bluecoats, but I knew I would have to go the II/III route. I figured the easiest corps for me to get to would be Northern Aurora...a straight shot up I-75. I got their phone number out of the 1993 DCI yearbook and gave them a call. I eventually was put in touch with Ric Roberts and I told him my "situation". His advice was this. He told me that Northern Aurora was looking to make the push into div I and was not interested in having non-brass players in their hornline. He told me "give Pioneer a call...they will take people like you". That is what I did. I was put in touch with Pat Seidling who welcomed me with open arms. I was taught to play a baritone and Pioneer proceeded to kick Northern Aurora's butt all around the midwest the summer of 1994. I ended up with my first of two div II championship rings that summer and went on to march Pioneer for 5 seasons....aging out as horn seargent in 1998. That phone call to Ric Roberts was on of the most important moments of my life, I just didn't realize it at the time.
I haven't been around Pioneer in a few years, but I would encourage anyone who get cut to give them a shot. They weren't my "first" choice, but they ended up being just what the doctor ordered. Sometimes a door getting closed in your face can be followed by another opening. As others have said...no matter if its Pioneer, Pacific Crest, Jersey Surf, or anyone else...March! You won't regret it.
MikeZ
Pioneer bari/euph 94-98
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People keep mentioning the design issues. I think one of the problems would be (and I am just guessing here) is that it has to be hard to design a show when you don't really know what your membership is going to be until late in the spring. If stronger members are moving to other corps and you are filling holes in May and June then it has to be tough to put a show together. I dont' know if it would be better to keep things very simple knowing that you are going to be getting lots of non-brass members in the hornline late in the spring, or stay with whatever numbers you have at the first two camps and plan on being small but designing the show to fit the talent you have. I don't think there are any easy answers here, and the bottom line still seems to be recruiting. Its easy to sit at your computer and dream up ways to get tons of kids at the early camps, but making that dream actually happen is going to be tough. I wish there was more I could do to help, but due to family health issues I am tied to my location here in Cincinnati. I hope that this thread can at least get the discussion going at the Pio office to improve the placement a little. For those fighting the good fight (Roman, Donny, Steve West, etc) good luck and I hope some good comes of this thread.
Mike Z
Pioneer bari/euph 94-98
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I can agree with a lot of what you have said. The problem I have is when you implied Roman was doing things for himself and not for the youth. You may question his methods, but certainly not his intentions. It appeared that Roman felt comfortable giving up quite a bit of control to RBJ and Pat Seidling when the corps was at its strongest. Maybe there is someone out there that in the near future that can once again take the reigns and lead the corps. But it has to be someone who is organized, knows what they are doing, and most importantly is completely trusted by Roman.
This conversation could go on for days (and maybe it will), I just hate to see someone implying that Roman thinks the corps is more for him than the members.
Mike Z
Pioneer bari/euph 94-98
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If anyone thinks Roman is doing this for himself and not for the kids obviously does not know Roman and have never had any contact with the corps. Although I don't always agree with everything that Roman does, I have no doubt in my mind that he is doing what he thinks is best for the kids.
I had a great experience marching Pioneer. My wife had a great experience marching Pioneer. In the mid 90's the corps provided not only a great "life" experience but an excellent "competitive" experience as well. Roman was the executive director of the corps at that time and although he was running DCM as well at the time he was still heavily involved with Pioneer. The corps can thrive with Roman at the helm.
It's interesting to read everyones suggestions for the corps. I know most just want to see a healthy Pioneer for years to come. I would be especially interested to see what suggestions other alumni of the corps have. I know what it is like to have a fufilling "life/competitive" experience with the corps. It is my hope many other kids get that experience in the future.
Mike Z
Pioneer bari/euph 94-98
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A few random thoughts from someone who actually marched in the corps...back in the day.
1. The corps needs to create a position and hire someone to be a recruitment coordinator. Murray works his butt off but he has other day to day operation duties that won't allow him to fill this role. As it stands right now there is a mish mash of information coming from members and staff rather than a defined message coming from a recruitment coordinator. The brass caption head should only need to worry about teaching brass not recruiting kids. The members should be memorizing music, getting in shape, and taking care of school work...not recruiting kids. Every time I see the corps in public tell the kids that they need to "recruit, recruit, recruit...because you are our best recruiters" I cringe. You don't see Mandarins, Spirit, Pacific Crest, etc recruiting in this method.
2. The corps needs to find a college to partner with. Not necessarily in an official manner, but they need to have some connection to a college to get older kids in the corps. When the corps was at its strongest it had a TON of members from Murray State University speificaly and KY in general. It started with a staff member who taught at Murray St coming on board and over the years more and more kids from the school followed. It appears that at this time that connection does not exist with any schools.
3. Keep playing Irish/Celtic music, but do not put the words Irish, Celtic, Green, or Ireland anywhere in the show title. Also get away from the traditional Irish/Celtic/Scottisch folk tunes. There are tons of thing out there and the show can be built around a visual idea with contemporary irish sounding tunes and people wouldn't immediately roll their eyes. Last years show could have used more contemporary music and been called "Reflections" and people would have been more open to it. I have tons of music up in my noodle that would work well for the corps, but that should be saved for a seperate post.
4. Retention! especially in the staff. If there were staff that stayed longer than a year or two you would have a better chance of getting kids to stay for a longer time. There were staff members when I marched who were there for all five years I was in the corps. I think it is safe to say that isn't happening now. I know there are numerous reasons for this, but I would guess Roman has some part to play in it. The corps has to pay more $$$ if it wants staff to stay around. I could make 5 times the cash staying home and teaching band camps for 4 or 5 weeks than I could if I went on tour with the corps for an entire summer.
I don't have time to continue on right now, but these are just a few things that would be a step in the right direction to moving the corps up in the placements. I hope one day to not only see the corps surviving every summer, but actually thriving. I don't know if that day will come or not, but I do hope.
Mike Z
Pioneer bari/euph 1994-1998
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I think the Bluecoats can still contend for the 4-6 spot. Their performance last night was one of the worst I have seen out of them over the past 3 or 4 years. Lots of dumb mistakes (missed releases, sails, late turns) at the show that I didn't see when watching them rehearse that afternoon. The same things that have been strong for the Bluecoats continue to be strong (brass/perc perf) and things that have hurt them (feet) will probably continue to hurt them.
That said I think this years show from a design standpoint is a step up from last year and they have plenty of cleaning to do. If they clean up they could hit the 4,5,or 6 spot or worst case scenario they end up with one of the most entertaining and well performed 7th place shows in history. All in all not a bad place to be.
Z
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I would vote for the early 80's Colts bari soloist. I think it was Dave Lang and I seem to remember 82 or 83 but my memory is foggy and I don't have time to go pull out casette tapes!
Z
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I missed the "Eureka" as well. Even after watching rehersal in the afternoon it still snuck up on me. Also agree about the stadium. Crew stadium has to be the best non-regional stadium in the country. You tell me I have to pick one stadium to see a show in I go with J. Birney Crum, but Crew stadium would probably be a close second.
Anyone know what was up with the Troopers tonight. Didn't seem like the same corps I saw in Centerville on Monday.
Z
Knows that a Trooper "off" night is still better than no Troopers at all
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I am just back from the Columbus show and wanted to throw my .02 in on the Scouts "situation". I really am hoping they can turn things around this summer, but from what I saw tonight that is going to be difficult. I saw the corps at their first show in Fairfied and haven't seen them again until tonight, and was shocked by how little improvement there was. I am sure much of that is due to re-writes that were being learned (and the opener "moves" a little more now), but the Scouts are just plain dirty right now. On top of that the flagline spent large chunks of the closer with no work at all. I was shocked that Pioneer's guard had beaten Scouts but if they still don't have a complete show on the field on July 5th then it is going to be hard to compete. Hopefully things can be turned around...and at the very least I hope the staff is taking lots of notes as to not be stuck in this situation in 2008.
As for the BD/SCV battle. The war is not over yet. BD is far cleaner at this point, but I don't know if that is a good thing on July 5th. I feel Vanguard has far more room for growth as we move into the dog days of the season. I really don't feel BD can win a championship with the last three minutes of the show they have on the field right now. If the title was decided on the first six minutes of a show we may need to hand the Devils the title right now. As is though the last 3-4 minutes just don't seem to work. Can't put my finger on it...just know that I don't think its good enough to win. Vanguard is really moving and the guard is the most solid I have seen out of Santa Clara in 10-15 years. Don't count them out yet...I think things are just heating up...
Mike Z
Have my first "Vanguard Yell" under my belt for the 07 season
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My vote for most plume hype would go to Les Etoiles at the end of their show at div II finals in 1996.
Z
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Pioneer was undefeated in div II for the entire 94, 95, and 96 season until II/III finals in 96. Les Etoiles won div II finals in 96 by around .2
With the numerous DCM shows that there were at the time I am sure this was a pretty decent number of shows. Acadamie Musicale did score higher than Pioneer at II/III finals in 95 but they were div III.
Mike Z
Pioneer 94-98
Best Comeback after a "down" year
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Maybe not as big as a jump in placement, but how about 93 Regiment after 92 Regiment. Although the placement did go up it was the difference in design and approach that blew me away.
Z