rut-roh

Even more ironic, ain't it.

It's totally factual. And pointing out the irony of it is not uncalled for at all.

Yet you play TRUMPET in the Carolina Crown. Sorry, try again.

Didn't DCI just standardize the payment structure so that all corps receive the same amount?

I can think of a lot of words to describe Crown's uniform. Innovative isn't one of them.

MUSIC PERFORMANCE. Big difference. Sorry, I'll bow out now. :)

I'd say they responded in the knee-jerk way that many Star alum and supporters respond. They are extremely sensitive to anything negative said about their corps, especially when it comes to the role of corporate sponsorship and money being a factor in their success. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that I'm disagreeing with their anger, but sometimes it does border on "persecution complex." (advice: take it as a compliment-- they don't boo you if you suck.) Back to the topic: I also didn't read any specific comments from anyone in this thread about people hating the Star of Indiana. And further, not to stoke the coals of the passionate Star of Indiana people, but I consider Star's heyday to be an extension of the Garfield Cadets, so there ya go. It's great. I love it. But I guess in a way, it's all derivative. Such is drum corps...

Not to drift too far off topic, but when Joe Torre was hired by the Yankees, he had never played or managed in a World Series game. He had a losing record as a manager and the move was highly criticized in the New York media and around the country. Nobody thought he would last the year, let alone be still going as manager ten years later. If he didn't get that job, he was going to retire and become an full-time announcer.

Well, since the musical aspect of the activity cannot be removed...otherwise it ceases to be what it is....that question is virtually meaningless. Unless you can think of another sport that requires its participants to perform music. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any. There are many sports with unique qualities...like throwing a ball into a basket, or hitting a small round stitched ball with a bat...but those unique qualities that separate them from other sports all require a specific athletic skill. The unique quality that separates our activity from other recognized sports is that the participants are required to perform music and interpret it visually at the same time. Immediately, the discussion switches from the genre of sport and it goes into the genre of the arts-- more specifically, music and dance/choreographed movement. For without those qualities, the activity no longer is what it is. You used the term competition. It is probably the best term to apply to this activity, just as there are ballet competitions and silent drill team competitions, there are marching band competitions and drum corps competitions. It is competition-- a competitive art form, for sure. It is not a sport. This has all been a stimulating discussion. I've said pretty much all I need to say about it and will leave my comments to stand on their own. I think I've presented my arguments clearly with good logic and respect towards others. Before I bow out of this discussion altogether, I want to make it known that because I don't consider drum corps a sport, it does not in any way diminish my love of the activity or my respect for everyone involved, whether they think its a sport or not. I appreciate the opportunity to voice my opinion on this matter...

Saying drum corps is not a sport is merely responding to the situation as it is in the world today. As stated earlier, drum corps has never been recognized as a sport, and chances are it never will. And it hasn't lost one bit of its greatness in doing so. I suppose one can live in denial and insist otherwise, but they would have a hard time convincing the masses outside of the activity that what they're saying is true. They'd also have a tough time convincing many IN the activity who don't think it's a sport. Why would anyone expect the world to view us as a sport when we can't even make up our own minds about it?? The essential foundation of what drum corps is can be defined as performing music while interpreting it visually at the same time. Competition? Most of the time. Choroegraphed movement? Yes. Music performed by the participants? Yes. Athletic? Sometimes, but definitely not always. Sport? Absolutely not. The second you start talking about music performance as being fundamental to what defines the activity, you can stop talking about sport.

The use of the word "youth" in the name of the organization can be a very powerful and attractive thing to potential donors, corporate sponsors and local businesses. If the kids in the corps are still doing what they've always been doing, and they are still "St. John's," I don't see any harm in it. I see a lot of upside in terms of what it can do for their financial stability and long term success in the ever-demanding world of fundraising. I wish them luck no matter what they do.

We are now officially bordering on the ridiculous with this topic. Here's a quick list of facts that should sum up where we are and where we go from here: 1. Drum corps/marching band is not currently considered a sport by the general populus. It's just not. 2. Whether anyone here wants it to or not, the chances of it ever being considered a sport by the general populus are slim to none. 3. Many people within the drum corps/marching band activity consider it to be a sport. 4. Many people within the drum corps/marching band activity consider it NOT to be a sport...we can't even decide amongst ourselves. 5. The push to have drum corps/marching band recognized as a sport is overwhelmingly coming from those within the activity, not from anyone outside the activity. 6. Drum corps/marching band has survived a century without it being considered a sport by the general populus. It has remained a viable competitive activity in all that time. It is validated for what it is, even though it has never been considered a sport. It is no less an amazing activity because of it.

In regards to silent drill teams... There are most definitely drill team competitions in this country. High school, collegiate, and military. And they ain't sports either.

There are most definitely competitions for ballet. And they ain't sports either. USA International Ballet Competition www.usaibc.com New York International Ballet Competition www.nyibc.org International Ballet Competition Varna 2004 bulgarianspace.inteya.com/music/varna_ibc DEA: Dance Educators of America - Ballet Seminar & Qualifying Competition www.deadance.com/balletseminar.html American Ballet Competition www.americanballetcompetition.com

Why would you consider drum corps to be a sport and not marching band??

Exactly. So let's leave the dictionary definitions OUT of this discussion.

Because we are creating music. And those who are not directly creating the music are interpreting it visually. That makes it far more akin to art than sport. Does it require athleticism? Sometimes. With some groups. But the musical aspect of the activity separates it and changes the entire conversation to the point where you can't simply get a dictionary out and decide just like that. Besides, for those who are so fond of quoting the dictionary, go look up the terms "marching band" and "drum corps." If you find the word "sport" in any of those two definitions, I'd be amazed.

Thank you for illustrating my point beautifully. Now you're counting how many people are playing. For a 20 second passage in the show. Ignoring the rest.

Nonsense. Crown is no more special or different than any of the corps mentioned in that list. ALL of those corps are special and unique. To suggest otherwise is an insult to those corps and the work they have done and are doing. If, as you say, they did not play a hard book last year but they played it clean....and still came in 7th in brass and 12th in percussion, then I'm afraid playing a harder book might not get the results you seem to think are their birthright simply because of their staff's pedigree. I respect that staff a great deal. I respect their organization a great deal, mostly because they choose to do what they do with as little fanfare as possible. They don't come online and make bold predictions. They don't brag about successes. I wish I could say the same about some of their members. You're obviously proud of the corps you march in. That's great. Don't let your arrogance ruin it.

No.

Examine this list of very fine corps. All of them achieved great things. All of them scored very well in the competitive arena. All of them were laden with promise for the future. Many of them were blessed with excellent instructional staffs with proven track records. Many of them were fortunate to have a large returning member base with which to operate in subsequent seasons. Every one of them has also spent at least one season OUT of the top 12 during this time period. 1997 Crossmen - 6th place - 93.00 1998 Crossmen - 7th place - 91.40 1998 Glassmen - 5th place - 92.80 1999 Blue Knights - 7th place - 92.50 1999 Glassmen - 5th place - 93.70 2000 Blue Knights - 6th place - 92.00 2000 Boston Crusaders - 5th place - 92.35 2001 Crossmen - 7th place - 91.15 2001 Glassmen - 5th place - 94.30 2002 Boston Crusaders - 5th place - 92.40 2002 Bluecoats - 7th place - 91.50 2002 Glassmen - 8th place - 91.00 2004 Bluecoats - 6th place - 92.125 2005 Bluecoats - 5th place - 94.450 Carolina Crown is another very fine corps. They have done some great things in the competitive arena in the last two years. There is a great deal of promise for the future with a largely returning staff and membership. But as the previous list demonstrates, there are no guarantees. In fact, based on the following... 2004 Carolina Crown - 7th place - 91.225 2005 Carolina Crown - 7th place - 90.725 ...and the fact that there are still some corps in their way, it could be argued that those other corps were closer to breaking through than Crown currently is. This is not to say that they can't do it. Just a sobering reminder to the enthusiastic Crown fans that this activity can humble an "up and coming" corps real quick. Just when you think you have all the momentum behind you, including a returning staff and tons of vets, things don't always turn out the way you thought they would. I wish them luck. But I'm not ready to annoint anyone the "second coming" or issue any warnings to the established "top" corps just yet. Breaking through to be counted amongst the elite is probably the toughest thing to do in drum corps.......second to actually STAYING there once you break through.

Round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows.

All this talk about certain corps standing still while playing the hard stuff, etc. is all just exaggerated nonsense. You can pretty much pick a show from any corps and see examples where they play very demanding passages while on the move and then you'll find others where they stand still and play. Every corps. And then people will totally blow things out of proportion mostly because they just don't like that corps. It's rather comical, actually. I heard some people making fun of the 1997 Cadets because they stood still to play that ridiculously difficult opening statement. As if NOTHING ELSE in the show was demanding and played on the move. Moronic. Put down the stop watches, stop counting notes, put the metronomes away and ENJOY THE SHOW.

It doesn't mean it is, and it doesn't mean it isn't. Every drill is different. Every drill has its demands specific to that show. Every drill has its moments that are relatively easy specific to that show. And the same could also apply to each individual's personal drill...some people have more demanding drill than others IN THE SAME SHOW. So it's pretty foolish to judge a drill as "easy" or "hard." It's way more complex than that. Also, demand of a drill and quality of a drill don't necessarily go hand in hand. I've seen some pretty difficult stuff over the years that was definitely hard for the performers to pull off. But it wasn't staged well and the transitions were poor. A whole lotta who cares.