MikeD
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Posts posted by MikeD
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2 hours ago, Sideways said:
Whenever someone does Book of Mormon.
Love that show! I saw it in London in the West End. I also would love to see a corps do Spamalot. The issue with both would be having to sing the entire corps show, since the lyrics are a good part of what makes the shows funny.
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On 11/10/2022 at 2:56 PM, MonarchDude said:
I was in the Monarchs/Kings Regiment drum line from '69-'79 (from cymbals up to snare and took over teaching the line in 79). If MikeD is who I think he is, he also taught at WVHS where I also went to HS. I worked with every drum instructor the Monarchs had from Danny Raymond to Mike D and Jack Pratt. Gotta say, Mike also wrote one of the best books the drum line ever had. Good times were had by all (I think!).
I think I know who this is. We had a great show in 77 as the King’s Regiment. That was a very fun show to write.
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Garfield started forming a Peace Sign in 1970 and continued for a number of years. We did all 3 of my years.
70 to “White Rabbit” with Ironlips great brass ending to the John Sasso chart.
71 to “Battle Hymn” as part of our America, the Brave show.
72 to a couple of tunes. Formed it to “A Mighty Fortress is our God” and moved it to Mahler’s 3rd as part of our No More War show.
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12 minutes ago, ironlips said:
I don't think Mike is dissing Fred. He's mocking himself for missing the opportunity to learn directly from him.
Fred had just come East to take the job at Bergenfield High. His credentials and credibility were stratospheric. His career surpassed even those, as everyone knows.
With their deep understanding of both rudimental and "legitimate" percussion, and their extraordinary pedagogical chops, Freddy, Shellmer, and Tuthill moved drum corps to it's next (much more musical) level, paving the way for youngsters like Poole, Aungst, and Hardimon. (Sounds like a law firm, no?)
Absolutely!
Don Angelica was personnel director of the Bergenfield school system at the time, and he used that to hire people all the time. Hiring Fred was, of course, a no brainer. He was a great teacher and a wonderful person, as I found out later.
Those three percussionists was amazing. I used to walk to the Robin Hood Inn near Montclair State, where I went to college, to see George play drums in a great jazz trio. Good times! He also brought me in to work with the Glen Ridge marching band, where your brass assistant Larry Schilings was band director. I taught them in 71, 72 and 73, as it was an easy bus ride from Montclair State to Glen Ridge. I also worked with his concert band percussionists, and I got to play some of the harder mallet parts his kids just could not play.
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16 minutes ago, denverjohn said:
With all due respect, as section leader with basically zero percussion staff on tour, I feel that our entirely new snare line and the rest of the battery held their own quite well with Fred's percussion book. I once saw some recaps on soundmachine or elsewhere indicating that percussion in prelims recap was in the middle of the pack.
Oh, what we ended up with was great, especially with a new snare line, as you said. Sorry if I implied otherwise. I still think if the exodus had not happened after 71, both staff and members, we might have been even better in 72. I mean, I came back in February 72, and with zero horn training I was one of the better 3rd baritones. 😀
Without the overtime penalty at prelims, we would have made finals, in actually 10th. Our staff really hurt us late season, adding and adding without removing anything, so we had a huge overtime penalty. You could tell that we were not the staff priority. Oh well...the show was actually amazing. "No More War" theme.
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11 hours ago, OldSnareDrummer said:
And back to George Tuthill for a sec. I feel the same about him, God Bless his soul.
Absolutely. When Garfield let him go fter the 71 season, a good part of the drumline quit and joined the Hawthorne Caballeros DCA corps where George was already teaching, Hawthorne being close to Garfield. I decided to rejoin Garfield, but I decided to play baritone and not drums. I mean, why would I want to play for another drum instructor...Fred Sanford!
🤪
OTOH, I did get to play horn under Don Angelica in 72, plus I had brass class coming up at college, where I was a music ed major.
Garfield membership was very young in 71. I sometimes wonder how good we might have been in 72 if George had remained on drums and Ironlips had remained on horn. We would not have lost the drumline for sure.
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8 hours ago, ironlips said:
Ah, yes. Every arranger's nightmare: the Great Hosing Down of the Charts. In this case, it was all for naught and probably cost the corps a couple of placements at Nationals because the GE score stalled when the exposures were removed.
In my naivete (this was my first book for a corps of this caliber), I objected so strongly that I was summarily dismissed from the staff. It was clear to me that Tuthill's creative use of percussion, particularly tuned basses and tympani, was the element that allowed the show to make musical sense.
I think one of the big changes was the end of the show. Our closer was "Profiles in Courage" with a reprise of "Yankee Doodle" as we marched into the sunset and left the field. No standard big finale. We eventually had a standstill big finale added of a bit of "America, the Beautiful" to close the show in a more standard manner. Being just a kid in the corps, I don't really know all of went on behind the scenes. I kind of liked just marching off, but the finale is decent too on the video I have of the World Open.
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12 hours ago, denverjohn said:
Yes, Mike. Bob & I did a sort of late "open flam" to Froggy's 1/2 note triplet the judges would tick until he changed it later in the season to unison after giving up on explaining to the judges. The marching timpani book is what stands out most to me right now. I believe the Shriners show was our best performance and audio recording that season. I remember that a lot of the book got "hosed" for nationals.
The Shriners was a great show for us. A bunch of us were graduating from HS the day the corps drove to Toronto. The corps left early on a Friday to go from Garfield to Toronto. Those of us who had HS graduations met at Garfield HS around 9:00 PM. Must have been 10-12 of us. Corps adults had cars ready to go to drive us to Toronto all night. Must been 3 or 4 carloads of us. We got in early Saturday morning.
As for the recording, I have the LP, and you are right. The quality is wonderful. I met Ironlips for dinner a long time ago when I was on a business trip to the San Fran area. He told me that the company that made the recording used a much different approach than Fleetwood, who did most of the recording at the time.
Yes, George hosed the drum book by Nats. The original tri-tom part was amazing when we learned it. But, we made a bunch of revisions by Nats, and it was a shell of what it was.
One of the big changes was when the Brits were playing a 3/4 minuet at the same time the American were playing a 2/4 hoedown, complete with dances. Originally, the drumline split in half to support both sets of music. We actually had different drills that separated us on the field. I was in the half that supported the British, so my drill was to be near them. The other half marched with the Americans doing the hoedown. Drum judges had no idea how to judge the two simultaneous parts, and they gave us little credit for what we did. By midseason George gave up, and we ended up doing a time-keeping part in mid-field.
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8 hours ago, ironlips said:
Yes, and if I recall, you provided a good deal of the "cannon blasts" required for that Christmas Eve/ Battle of Trenton production. George Tuttle was Garfield's Jerry Shellmer. Both of those cats were 'way ahead of the curve.
I recall some of the judges used to tick the cannon shot, as George had the biggest bass play the BOOM with the small rudi doing the smaller boom as an echo. They would hit it for "Not Playing Together". George was waaay ahead of his time, for sure, as was Jerry of course. The original drum book for the 71 America, the Brave show was amazing for its day.
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IThe music from "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" would make a great show. Written by Tan Dun, the film features Yo Yo Ma throughout. Gorgeous ballad. It is being released in theaters again, as one of the stars, Michelle Yeoh, is now a huge star. Also starts Chow Yun Fat and Zhang Ziyi.
I arranged music from it for the marching band I taught, back around 2010. It worked well, esp the amazing cellist we featured.
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In the 60’s I recall corps having a large bass for the real deep sound, and maybe a smaller one. They were not tuned in the sense of what happened in the 70’s.
Also small and wider rudi basses were popular. Blessed Sac’s duo in the late 60’s were amazing players. They actually did tune those to create different pitches in 69 for one of their drum solos.Flat basses were created to provide a timpani style sound. Some corps just attached two standard basses together and left off the bottom heads to get a more resonant sound. I played one of those in Garden State Circuit corps in 69.
Manufacturers built a variety as well with 2 or 3 drums. St Lucy’s from Newark attached metal rings to theirs one year. Called them the “garbage cans”, as that is what they looked like.
The addition of marching timps replaced those.
Truly tonal bass drums took off in the 70’s. Before that “regular” straight basses did not march sideways.
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The last band I taught from 1994 thru 2017 had a number of corps members in the late 80's that came back from tour and basically tore the band apart. It took the director a few years to build it back up. After that experience he never suggested any of the kids march while in HS. Some did after their HS careers ended.
A lot of the students in our district did other things in the summer, between activities and family trips, so having a blanket rule about band camp being mandatory would have kept kids form marching even if they wanted. Our music arranger through the 2002 season used to try and get the director to suggest DCA to the kids, but again, the heaviest part of the DCA season would have been during band camp. Some went on the DCA after they graduated, with the director's blessing.
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On 1/31/2023 at 9:49 AM, Fran Haring said:
Definitely. Two terrific city corps.
And the Riversiders from NYC. My older brothers got started in drum corps in 1967 with a NJ Garden State Circuit group. I'd go to shows with my folks, and the Riversiders were the first corps to really get my attention. They were great that year... dominated the circuit.
Riversiders were great then. The Wynn Center Toppers were good too. There was a corps from Newark in the GSC, St Martin's Troubadors. Their unis and my corps (Livingston Imperial Guardsmen) unis were almost identical. We were pretty close competitively in 68 and 69, around the middle of the circuit.
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54 minutes ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:
It's not that other corps couldn't attract those folks... they never tried. Bill Cook disturbed the "good ole' boys" network that DCI had going and they didn't want money with strings attached. Those people might expect them to give up overpaid positions and QFTK.
The Troopers were created by Jim Jones, another wealthy guy, in the late 50's and onward.
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11 hours ago, keystone3ply said:
Maybe:
"On the line, from Santa Clara California, The Santa Clara Google-Guard"
("Google" would be in their font & color scheme)
No? It flows... 😁
Going way back, there was a senior corps called the Ballentine Brewers. Also a junior corps the New York Islanders, sponsored by a 7-UP location on Long Island.. Their unis were 7-UP green and orange. They wore a 7-UP patch on their shoulder and a bass drum head had the 7-UP logo, if I recall.
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18 minutes ago, C.Holland said:
Directors that want to do summer are already on tour. Everyone else wants their summer off. Many bands already charge students to participate, and to cross state lines you often can’t use a school bus. So renting is the only option.
In addition, many bands do some amount of summer rehearsals to prepare for fall marching band, including full band camp to learn the show, at least in my experience.
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2 hours ago, Slingerland said:
Well, again, I'm talking about Open Class, where no one is showing up for them relative to the WC shows anyway.
That situation was common for class 'B' corps in my era as well, here in NJ.
I competed in the Garden State Circuit in 68/69, taught there in the mid-70's, and judged from mid-70's to early 80's. MANY of our shows had just about zero audience.
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5 hours ago, ironlips said:
Fran speaks as someone who marched in a certain era. I too remember the Boonton show.
Interesting show, held after Nationals close to Labor Day. A lot of the class 'A' corps looked like swiss cheese at that show, as many members had left for college by that time.
The show was sponsored by the Boonton Harmony parade corps. They used band brass, not bugles, at least in my era at that show, 1970-71. They also had a glock section.
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8 hours ago, TOC said:
That might work. Then, during the school year the musicians do jazz, concert, band, and other non marching options.
Except that for many HS bands, competitive and non-competitive, the fall football season is the primary reason the marching band exists, at least in the eyes of the administration.
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12 hours ago, Slingerland said:
On the point about band directors not wanting to do summer shows, as noted, that was once the norm, and, comes down to it, summer competitive marching band makes a lot more sense than fall competitive marching band. Give them an option that de-stresses the BOA calendar in favor of something more casual and lower cost, and you might find that some of the thousands of high schools who don't WANT the fall competitive band experience could do it as a summer school project (we're aware that the vast majority of high schools aren't into the fall competitive band thing, right?)There are somewhere around 25,000 HS bands in the US, so you will find just about every possibility when you are analyzing that many band programs. With that many, maybe you would find some to compete in the summer. Even 1% is 250 bands, when you look at the totality.
I don't think summer competitive band was ever the 'norm', actually. There were a handful that did it, and some of them were not scholastic bands, but local community ensembles, like the old style local corps.
The BOA calendar is not the driver for most of the competitive bands, actually. Numerically speaking, very few actually compete in BOA. Local circuits like USBands, TOB, NYSFBC, etc here in the mid-Atlantic area provide that more casual and low cost option for the vast majority of competitive bands.
I did do some high level research a number of years ago on my area here in the mid-Atlantic area, looking at the primary local circuits like USBands, TOB, NYSFBC, NESBA, PMBA, Cavalcade of Bands, etc, and saw about 1300 bands on their collective websites. That covered bands from parts of the South through New England. Some bands would be on multiple lists, of course. As I said, a high level research effort.
Marching bands compete in the fall, as that is football season for schools. I just do not see that there would be much interest in summer competitions, though based on the first paragraph you may find some. For most band directors I have known since the early 70's, marching band is the tail, and concert band the dog...and most want the tail to be as small as possible.
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8 hours ago, Slingerland said:
...make Open Class all instrument and encourage high school band programs to put together summer competitive programs that can be on the same ticket as DCI drum corps.
I love your post, except for this piece. There are probably some number of school band directors that might like that, but just the thought of marching band in the summer AND fall will cause many band directors to start shaking and twitching all over. 😀
To have a summer marching band means that the band had to start in the spring. With programs like concert band, jazz ensemble, spring musical pit orchestra, etc....I doubt that idea would receive much of a positive view.
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1 hour ago, TRacer said:
She was the architect behind the Argonne Rebels’ powerhouse hornline of the early 70’s, including the legendary line of 1972. A lot of us “marched elsewhere prior to SCV” vets knew who she was and getting to meet and be cliniced by her was a highlight of my DC career. She basically brought the concept of “full symphonic sound” and TQ&I to DC; indeed, if you listen to Argonne’s ‘72 Finals recording the hornline easily sounds ten years ahead of its time. Tim S. was a disciple of her teachings.
In 71 they already had a coed horn line, when most corps in the east were only males playing instruments (outside of all-girl corps, of course). I hung with a couple of horn gals when we were at shows with them. Their hornline was amazing. SO far ahead of its time.
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2 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:
Ahhhhh. Those were the days when hearing gunshots was a good thing! I remember being able to relax a little after hearing the shots and seeing the field judge raise their clipboards above their heads. (I might be making that last part up...? I think that happened).
Yes, it did for me. We were told to make it obvious that we heard the gun to stop execution judging. Lifting the clipboard was one way we did it. Depending on where we were on the field, it might not be easy to hear the gun, so the timing judges wanted to know for sure we heard the gun. They would run after judges who did not hear it and kept judging.
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6 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
I heard a story about a corps getting zeroed out in drums and the drum guy asked why he did that and the judge because they wouldn’t let me give you a negative number. Ouch. Sick burn.
I once zeroed a corps in drums when I judged in the GSC in the late 70’s. I felt terrible…that I had failed them. Kids did not deserve zeroes IMO.
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Why The Drop? Polish Falcon Cadets
in Historical Junior Corps Discussions
Posted
One town over there was the Bridgemen coming on strong in 76 with the banana unis. I bet they took quite a few of the potential members from that area.
i think the North Jersey area supported fewer and fewer corps as the years went by, esp top level.