MikeD
-
Posts
25,289 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
75
Posts posted by MikeD
-
-
On 9/26/2021 at 2:54 PM, crownisking said:
But to be fair, Alice was probably pretty high the whole time. You can’t properly do an Alice in Wonderland show and it not be weird. The same could be said for Jethro Tull. Both shows were gonna be pretty strange no matter what.
And if the critics were loud in 2004 and 2006, they were deafening in 2007. “This, I Believe” just might be the most criticized drum corps show ever. Just imagine how much worse it would’ve been today with social media being what it is.
The Jethro Tull show is my all-time least favorite Cadet show. They really needed the A&E elements of today to do Tull justice, IMO (probably better once flutes are allowed). 2006 was a very good show to me. I loved 2007, including the narration. 2008 was saved for me by the final couple of minutes, otherwise it would have been a race to the bottom with 2004.
-
On 9/25/2021 at 10:57 AM, Continental said:
Somewhere on an eternal hard drive, old hard drive, or USB key, I have the original 2006 show where History Repeating was the opening statement and White Rabbit was longer. This is when DCI offered audio downloads from various shows in the season. I will have to look for it.
Cadets played "White Rabbit" in 1970 as well...it was the first year we did the Peace Sign.
-
18 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
sure. start a petition, get thousands of signatures, and someone to present it to the board.
then like with amps, watch as crickets chirp around the presenter before it goes absolutely nowhere.
...thankfully. 😀
-
1
-
-
On 9/28/2021 at 1:30 PM, Mello Dude said:
The corps can write anything they want on the sheets. Those that judge and interpret those sheets hold sway and the direction everyone will travel to achieve "score".
Those that judge continue to do so as long as their interpretations of the sheets are in line with how the corps have decided the sheets should be interpreted.
-
2
-
-
2 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
We had a metal one in 1978 but it was definitely not enough to water down a full corps. I remember drinking a lot of bugs that were floating around in it but I was so thirsty I didn’t give a ####.
We sometimes had metal containers of Kool-aid-like liquid, basically flavored sugar water. For added protein, there were LOTS of bugs floating around who wanted the sugar. We called it bug juice.
-
1
-
1
-
-
10 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
I used to turn my jacket inside out. I’ll never forget the bus funk. Ever. 🤮
Our main uniform person, Aunt Nellie, lived close to Garfield HS. She had a fenced in yard, and she would hang our unis inside out all around her fence to air them out as often as possible. We as members did not really have access to our unis outside of performance times.
-
1
-
-
22 hours ago, Sutasaurus said:
I remember marching in the all wool Cadet style uniforms 72-74. Ewwweee. Those suckers caused major rashes! The double knit pants that replaced the wool weren’t that much better.
Oh yes! We used to go through tubes of A&D ointment after some of the parades on hot days! OUCH!!!!!
-
1
-
-
On 9/13/2021 at 10:23 PM, Brian Tuma said:
Y’all must have smelled like wet dogs!
That might explain our dinner one night of Kibble.
-
1
-
-
On 9/11/2021 at 4:50 PM, greg_orangecounty said:
Interesting!
We had heard of water, but it was considered for sissies and the Velvet Knights. Horse-sized salt pills were de rigueur.
Is there no one here that knows Drum Corps existed before 1995 and can testify how hot 1971 VFW Cotton Bowl was!?
Mike!!??
As was shown, I have commented on the 71 Dallas heat. Absolutely awful in our wool Cadet uniforms. For prelims it was 135 on the field according to two stadium workers I heard talking as we (Garfield) came onto the field.
Our unis were already damp, as we had marched a Dolphin/49'er preseason halftime in Miami the week before VFWs in Dallas. It poured on us that evening, totally drenching our uniforms. There was actually a photo in one of the Miami newspapers showing our marching timpani line with water bouncing off the drums. The great folks who maintained our unis (led by Aunt Nellie!!!!) did the very best job they could to dry them out between that exhibition and VFWs, but they were still damp and sticky, on top of the heat.
-
2
-
-
On 8/29/2021 at 8:39 PM, GUARDLING said:
True but I also remember PR as well as Cadets ( mike can vouch for the no more war show ) who gave a hand out at shows. With that said, and this also goes to judging. One can watch a show they completely do not understand and appreciate so many aspects of it, musically visually, emotionally.......If they want to IMO
Yup. In 1971, our "America, the Brave" show about the Revolutionary War, we passed out a printed libretto to the crowd, a decade prior to PR doing the same. Dave Shaw wrote it. DCP's own Ironlips, a history major (and our primary brass arranger/instructor) provided the factual information for the libretto.
In 1972, the "No More War" show, we passed out a placemat sized poster with three photos. One was two young children, a boy and girl, playing. The second was the now-grown boy saying goodbye to his girlfriend (both in uniform, BTW). The third was the young woman standing next to a casket.
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, Weaklefthand4ever said:
This year has been the insanity of bunny births. I guess the rabbits got bored during lockdown as well. I couldn't even mow the lawn last week due to tons of baby rabbits all over the yard. You can keep the red tide and I'll stick with the sewage smell of the river.
If you would have mowed the lawn anyway, you would have had your own red tide!
-
3
-
-
11 hours ago, cixelsyd said:
Mmm... partly so. But that style went away as the 1970s progressed, during the tick era.
There were several other factors in play. Three other pertinent changes to the judging system occurred in the early 1970s. Two of them totally changed the balance between teardown and buildup judging - the analysis subcaptions, and the 30-point general effect allotment. Prior to that, the most prized junior corps championship (VFW) was 90% teardown, with no analysis subcaptions and only 10 points allotted to GE. (The third judging change was abandoning the "cadence" caption and associated requirement for all corps to maintain the same constant tempo of 128-132 beats per minute whenever on the move. That made the whole activity sound blocky and stilted.)
Also, corps in the 1970s began to enjoy the luxury of having members with prior musical experience, thanks to the corps-style marching band trend. Corps could use written music with all its nuances, instead of teaching parts by rote.
The 1970s also saw mandatory high leg lift and elbow contact fade away. So much easier to play softly with quality when the horn is not being knocked off your face.
Don Angelica pushed for a 30-point GE caption back in the 60's.
Actually, even near the end of the VFW era, GE on the World Open sheets and CYO Nats was a total of 30 points.
Prior to the Analysis captions, the execution sheets had a number of points allocated to 'Difficulty'. If my memory serves, at the 1971 VFW Nats, Drumming Execution was 17 points for tics and 3 points for Difficulty, but don't hold me to those number breakdowns...just a rapidly fading memory!
Thank goodness Cadence was eliminated. Also, Inspection was a 10-point caption on VFW sheets.
All of those changes you quite properly noted went into the change in judging concepts, as those who decided these things (staffs, directors, judges, etc) realized that the progress being made in all areas, M&M, Brass and Percussion, made tics a lousy way to evaluate performance in those areas.
-
2
-
-
35 minutes ago, greg_orangecounty said:
We stayed in Garfield one year, 72 I think. They townspeople were soooo nice to us! We did a run through for them out of appreciation. I've liked Holy Name/Garfield ever since.
What a talent Bobby Hoffman was!
Yes, he was amazing. I recall that visit. 72 was my final marching year.
-
1
-
-
10 hours ago, George Dixon said:
Very obvious you do not know me, or my priorities
I'm at a point in my life where I do not need to engage with the negativity on DCP, and all the anonymous posters with their pathetic agendas. When I started this site; it was to end the blight of RAMD, unfortunately, over time a few posters have driven away 90% of the traffic and spread rumors and negativity. That's not what I'm about. Cancer changes a person, so see ya.
Be well, George. Take care of yourself.
-
8
-
-
On 8/18/2021 at 7:44 PM, greg_orangecounty said:
By practicing. In our case 12-hour days and having Bobby Hoffman screaming in your ear helped too.
Hmmm....in my Garfield years, 70-72, I could have said the exact same thing! Bobby was our visual person too!
-
1
-
-
20 hours ago, WilsonStaff said:
Your opinions are the exact same as Jeff Ream?
Don't let Jeff read this! We have had our differences on lots of things in the past. On this one, we tend to agree.
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, WilsonStaff said:
Did you march during the tic system?
I did, my entire career, from 64-72. I also judged under the tic system, primarily in the Garden State Circuit, from 76-80'ish. That is how I was trained in the beginning of my judging career. I judged band shows from 1978 to around 2005. The last drum corps I judged was a couple of DCA shows in 1990.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, Boss Anova said:
I have no idea how judges judge the the playing abilities of rock guitarists either . Or singers . No matter whether it’s a tick system or the newer build up points system .Most DCI judges currently really have little to no professional experience nor educational training in the intricacies of Voice or Guitar . They don’t play a guitar nor sing a song any better than you or me. ( ok, maybe me . I can sing in the shower , but not very well ) 😀
Music ed majors take courses in many areas of music performance. Even in my dinosaur college era (71-75) I (as a percussion major) took courses in strings, woodwinds, brass, singing. I took 6 semesters of piano. Sang in choir for three years in addition to band and orchestra.
Judges who judge marching band competitions have been doing just fine for many decades evaluating a wider array of instruments than drum corps, actually, when WW are added in.
-
1
-
1
-
-
16 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:
There will always be inconsistency in judging when humans are involved. One plate umpires strike is another's ball. One line judges completion is a back judge's incomplete pass. My point is the tic system worked in that it placed corps in their correct order of finish and allowed for innovation at the same time.
Not saying to turn the clock back to 1970-something but the tic system worked and .doesn't deserve the criticism I read here from fellow dinos.
The tick system worked when drum corps was a much simpler activity. Drumline elevator drills up and down the 50, for example. Squad moves and more linear drills. More vertical arrangements. No front ensembles. Etc....
The impetus to change it to eventually #### we have today came as drum corps expanded beyond the old model of shows and design. Mallets and timpani, even marching versions, were not able to be completely judged using the tick system, as one example.
-
2
-
2
-
-
5 hours ago, rpbobcat said:
My issue isn't with the concept of judging.
The problem is having an objective system to accomplish that.
Art, by its very nature, makes that difficult, if not impossible.
If a judge likes jazz, more then rock, there is no way to completely put that "out of your mind" when you judge a show.
Same thing, I find it hard to believe that a judge who marched, taught, designed for corps "A", wouldn't judge that corps differently then corps "B".
Its just human nature.
While not perfect, I do think the "tick" system did provide more objective judging.
Ticks were just as subjective. Was the moment being evaluated worthy of a tick or not? The judge had to decide. In the case of a group tick situation, how bad was it? How many ticks should be assessed?
Further, the judge had to be directly in front of the moment being evaluated to mark a tick. If the judge stood in front of the snares, for instance, and thought a bass phrase may have been dirty, the judge was not deemed to be in position to assess a bass tick.
Recording ticks let to watered down shows as the season progressed, to eliminate every possible error, esp in percussion. I recall one hall of fame drum instructor who used to have a lot of cymbal crashes at the ends of battery phrases to cover up potential battery errors. There were lots of games back then, for sure. Brass charts were more vertically aligned, as opposed to independent horizontally aligned independent voices to make sure judges did not hit the line incorrectly for attack and release errors.
I really can't imagine todays shows, as complex as they are, being able to be judged using any sort of tick system. That system went away because it was just not a sufficient way to truly evaluate the corps performances.
-
3
-
1
-
-
1990 Phantom Regiment Saint-Saens Symphony #3, the Organ Symphony, has always been on my list of favorite symphonic pieces performed by a drum corps. Actually, their entire 1990 Saint-Saens show with Carnival of the Animals and Bacchanale is wonderful.
-
1
-
-
9 hours ago, BigW said:
Interesting, Mike. The thing is, if it were a legit reason, how far does the district have to go in deliniating the reason?
Is it as simple as "Big W didn't leave West Barndoor HS for ANYTHING to do with sexual misconduct", or does it have to be more specific-
"We got a new Director that brought in his own people..."
"Big W didn't like driving 50 miles one way to rehearsal..."
No idea on that question. I would think they would tell the new prospective district of any "unsavory" issues with the person, but I don't know how specific they would be.
-
I saw my first show in Sept 1963, sponsored by my dad’s VFW.
Dad signed me up in the fall. I was 10.
I find each decade has been amazing.
The 2010’s have been the very best to me. Amazing shows from the creative staffs performed at an incredibly high level by the members.
-
3
-
-
4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
So in California someone can end up on an 'offender registry' without a criminal conviction?
Golly.
In NJ, a recent law (couple of years ago) was passed so that when a staff person has applied to a district for a position, the former districts can and must share the reason for the person leaving, even if there was no charge and conviction.
Before that, many times the first district just let the person resign, especially if parents of involved students did not want to subject their children to further stress by pursuing a court case. In those days, the first district was not permitted to discuss the reason for the resignation, otherwise the teacher could sue that district, as legally all they did was resign.
I think most of us old timers know of lots of cases of teachers moving around various districts due to the old policies. That is thankfully no longer the rule.
March or Die thoughts 2021....
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Exactly so. The GE judge can read how all of the listeners are reacting to a show in evaluating that aspect of the Effect sheet. It has nothing to do with what the GE judge happens to "like" musically. Of course, that is but one portion of the Effect sheet.