Brass Ablaze

B) Well, lets see...... The Cascades are probably going, what, 12,000 miles? And what's gass mileage on a single bus? 5 mpg? 10mpg? Heck I don't know, I don't drive a bus. Lets be really conservative and say 15 mpg. Ok so what are gas prices? Well I know around here they have gone down a bit. I can probably get like $2.30 a gallon or so. It might be cheaper in other parts of the country, I don't know so lets say $2.00 a gallon just to be really conservative and for a nice round number. so thats... 12,000 / 15 mpg = 800 gallons of gas for the one bus that hauls that person around the country. 800 * $2.00 = $1,600 Now, considering that there are many other people on that bus as well, the cost gets split quite a bit. But also consider the cost of the bus itself, any maintenence on it, the cost of the trailors that haul the equiptment and food and souvies. Now consider that there are probably easily more than 20 staff members, instructors, cooks, bus drivers, design team, drill writers, etc. Some might be volunteer but many need to be paid. These are professionals in a lot of cases that are there to teach the kids. Now lets talk food. The average teenager eats like 10 times more than a normal human :P. Ok, I'll be reasonable. What's it cost to go to lunch at fast food? Well, I went to Arbys last night and spent $13 on food for my wife and I. McDonalds is probably cheaper, more like 5 or 6 bucks a person. Now lets consider they are eating 3 meals a day plus usually a snack. Easily $20 a day per person. In bulk, it's cheaper but considering you would still need to eat if you didn't go on tour, you'd still be incurring that amount just to feed yourself. Now, how many days are they eating? 2 months worth? so lets say 60 days. 60 * $20 = $1,200 So the food alone is over a thousand. And that is an expense you'd have incurred whether you were on tour or not. So when we factor ALLL of that in, I don't think $1,000+ is all that much. It seems like it but when you do the math, it probably actually saves you money in the long haul of things. A lot of the costs of operating the corps doesn't just come from member fees as well. Sponsors and donations play a big part in it. I know for the cascades, they have a bingo hall which brings in a lot of money for them as well. So anyway, just thought I would bring a bit of numbers into the equasion to explain the corp fees for ya. :)

You differ in your opinion on narration from mine, which is fine. I don't doubt many feel the same as you but I also think that many feel the same as me. The exact percentage of actual fans that agree with it or disagree with is irrelevent but the important thing to note is that there are a lot of supporters on both sides. So my point is, you'd have to be blind to think that a show including narration wouldn't cause some controversy with a large number of fans. Everyone who is involved in an active corp knows about the rule change and the controversy behind it. So why go there? Why knowingly make a show that you know from the start will upset some of the fans, regardless if it's 60% or if its 10%, and cause controversy? None of this would be being discussed if they had choosen a more traditional show design. I know it. You know it. They know it. And to not see it coming is just plain silly.

The thread that Cascade Mama got closed was valid because that thread turned into personal attacks. However, this thread is a different story. Nobody in here is attacking the anyone. The original poster had an opinion. Others are commenting and discussing his opinion. Nobody here hates Kurt. In fact if you read the posts, I think it's pretty unanimous that we all like him and respect him and many of us even think he is very good at what he does. Personally, I think very highly of Kurt and I wouldn't want anyone else in his place. Kurt is a always a positive and fun guy to be around and everyone knows it and he is very talented. But none of that is the issue at hand. The issue at hand is the direction that the design of the show has taken this year. With that said. I'd like to address him again. I realize that the comments and questions of myself and others have put you in an uncomforable position to respond without getting flamed. For that I am sorry, but you are probably right. I do offer you this one thing, however... You have seen what some of the fans here think. You have read the reviews. Surely you were aware of the controversy that would be previlent in certain aspects of the show before you even put it on the field. I think it is a safe bet to say that there are more than a handful of people who are dissapointed with aspects of the design. Lets be honest now, you had to have seen it coming. You know that there are fans that disaprove of certain things. Why go there? Why play with the matches? Certainly their were options to go with a different show design that didn't include some of the highly controversial pieces. Other shows that may have pleased not just the judges but the fans too. Is it an attempt to gain visiblity with the 'no publicity is bad publicity rule'? Now I know that fan applause and ovations have been very positive thus far but please bear in mind someing. I am a fan of the scades whether the they stand there and play scales and 8th note warm ups for the show or whether they play finals worthy material. I am going to stand up and give them an ovation regardless. WHY? Because I enjoy watching them, I have personal ties to them, and I support them for all that they do and all that they stand for and I appreciate the hard work and effort put into the performance. That does NOT mean that I am giving them a standing ovation to approve of that particular show design, narration, etc. So please kurt, do not use that as an indicator. Find out what people really think. Unfortunately many people are too nice in person and may not give their honest opinion in person. But as you said, there is a certain amount of anonymity to these forums so people are more apt to speak their minds. So with that said. I'm sure you read my review, this orignal poster's review, and some of the several other reviews as well. I ask that you ignore the posts from those who say "I havn't seen the show yet but my opinion is" and read again all the posts from those who have seen the show. Some like it, some don't. I think you will find that there is a disturbing amount of fans who disaprove of some things. That should be a sign. When the judge said that the world wasn't ready for this show, maybe he was trying to tell you something in a nice way. So I will give you this thought...You will never be able to please everyone, but perhaps its best to reconsider who you are trying to please. (cough cough judges is the wrong answer cough cough :P ) Thanks for listening Kurt. Hopefully I/we have had SOME impact on you as to what some of the fans think and hopefully you will be open minded enough to not shut out our comments but to really think about it. PS. Someone mentioned that we should provide suggestions instead of just criticisms. I DID do this on another thread. Just wanted to point that out in case your wanting some suggestions. I had a whole post on that. B)

Yeah. I think the point is that $60 might be worth it for those awesome center seats at a regional with lots of division 1 corps but $58 is not worth it for 2 seats on the 20 yard line to a show that is really small with mostly division 2 corps and only 2 division 1 corps. Glad to see the high schoolers were taken care of by the way. ^OO^

I payed $25 for me and $25 for my wife plus I think it was 8 bucks for processing which totals $58. To me, that seems like a lot to pay for the amount of corps that were there. Especially considering my seat was on the 20 yard line. HOWEVER, I was not unwilling to pay this much because of two reasons. 1. The money goes for a good cause. I want to support the northwest corps as much as I can and if that means paying 5 to 10 dollars more than some of the mid west shows, then I am willing to do that. 2. Their are only 2 other shows within reasonable driving distance for me which are the same corp lineup anyway. But I do think they should lower the prices for the Seattle show. The reason is because there are a people who probably can't afford to come to the shows who would really like to see them. In particular, I think there are a lot of high school band students that would be able to come if the prices were cheaper. The other reason is because I think that the higher the prices get, the more it makes the casual fan's decision harder as to whether or not it is worth it for them to come. So in conclusion, I think if they lowered the general admission rate to something more like $20, they might find that more people will go to the show, thus making up the difference in price. That's my take on it anyway.

First of all, for those who don't know Kurt....he's the man. He's the magic that makes it all happen. :) Well, I have to say. I do applaud you're take on this. You are pushing the envelope and doing what few others dare to do. I guess it's just my personal opinion that I dislike it and I have to say that I think that judge nailed it head on with that comment. Thanks for clearing up the uniforms bit as well. I had no idea that they were supposed to be futuristic flight suits. I just figured they were just to go with the neon color scheme (which I dislike but again, thats just my opinion). Reguarding not trapping drum corps in a museum... I see your point but where do you draw the line? Woodwinds? Synthesizers? Video machines? Fog Machines? Heck, lets just pre record the corp's best standstill and play it back while they march to it. Now I know I am being a little extream or at least it seems so right now. But to me, it just seems like the "line" is getting moved out further and further and we are getting further and further away from the roots that make this activity what it is. I say we draw the line at amplification. That's my take. You disagree, but then again, where do YOU say we draw the line? Thanks for taking the time and posting Kurt. I applaude what you do for our community. Keep it up. Hopefully our reviews have at least given some insite on what some of the fans think. Good luck this year. I wish you the best.

I'll give them that much. They did "pushing the envelope and dare to be different" and for that I guess you have a point. Here are my opinions on what I would do to improve the show if I was the director...... - Spread them out a little more. Change a few drill sets so its not so jumbled in spots. - Paint the props silver. - Change the guard uniforms to stuardess and pilot uniforms or something more easily associated with the theme of flight while loosing the neon color scheme. - Replace all the kites accept the one. It should be the one focal point kite but only at that one spot where there was just the one. - Nix the narration and put it in the program instead. (pretty please) - add a nice phatty battery feature (ok maybe this is asking too much, but it would be cool :P )

no but I'd say that its a pretty safe bet that if you read a review here it is from someone who generally is more than a casual fan that just happened to get invited along to a show. I'll give you an example. My sister in law is a huge disneyland nut. She lives in Washington but every spring she flys to california and goes to disneyland. She subscribes to disney newsletters, posts on disney forums, and can even tell you which order to go on the rides to minimize you line wait time. She is truely a disneyland nut. As for me. I like Disneyland and sure I have been there before but I am not as big of a fan as her and I can't see myself participating in disneyland forums. I'd say that it is safe to say that those who participate on them are more than your average run of the mill family that happened to take a vacation there. It's people who really really enjoy disneyland. Why am I telling you this? Because I think it's the same thing here. If you come to a drum corp forum and see 4 or 5 reviews from people who all agree on similar points about the show that are generally disliked in for out of 5 reviews (props, guard uniforms, drill is too crammed, narration bad) then it's probably a pretty safe bet that those things are not liked by a lot of other people as well. Just like if you read all the show reviews that I think all of them complemented Blue Devils B and said that the drums rocked and the corp has a good shot at the div 2 title. I don't see people flaming that. Why? Because it is positive. You are never going to hear from ALL the fans or even MOST of the fans. What you WILL hear from is the hardcore fans or the devoted fans or the vocal fans. And that's just the fact of it. Saying that you can't listen to fan reviews because it is only the vocal minority is silly. The vocal minority is just a small representation of the majority. I think if they read these reviews, all of them, they would see a few common criticisms in them that seem to be in most of the reviews from people who took time to actually go into specifics who know what they are talking about. Sorry for my rant but I just disagree with that one. :)

Well said. I pretty much agree with you on your points. As far as the seattle show, I just wish they would actually come here and read our reviews and actually see what it is their fans think of it rather than blindly pretending that everyone just likes it. Nice review. Seems pretty accurate to me.

And they do for finals? hehe :P

Isn't it against one of the rules to use the same caption for all your corps? Are these in the same division?

/agree :)

I'd rather wait and have accurate scores than be stuck with generated scores. It just makes it feel more like the off season which I did not partcipate in specifically because the scores were generated.

It's not possible to live life without offending SOMEONE with something you say. In this case, it was you and for that I again appologise. I picked my words because they best fit my personality and I felt they best described how I felt as well as the frustration that I have which I think was very succesful in coming across in my words. Additionally, please bear in mind that when dealing with text only you do not have the luxury of noting my other forms of communication such as tone and posture etc. So again I say, I am sorry that you were offended in this case and I ask that you please focus the topic of discussion on actual opinions of the people on this forum rather than the vocabulary in which people voice those opinions.

Did I clap and cheer for the cascades? Yes. I did. Did I boo them? No, I did not. I gave them the support that they deserve. However, I am also not afraid to voice my opionion. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who think that the best thing for them is to shower them with praises and tell them that they were great while casually ignoring the things they didn't like. I only give them my feedback in hopes that it will give them some honest insite that might influence their decisions in the future for the betterment of the corp. Why? Because I want them to succeed. I think Mr. Peashy has the wrong idea when he referred to the fan support. Supporting them and liking their show design are two different things. I will still support them even though I don't like this particular show design. But for the corp to assume that clapping and cheering must equate to the acceptance of the narration by the fans is completely wrong. That is supporting the corp and the show as a whole and the hard work and effort that it took for them to be able to come out and perform for us like they did. I applaud that. I do not applaud the narration. Don't use the fact that you don't hear booing mean that the narration is excepted by all the fans. Giving them a good review is not the same as giving them support. Don't assume I don't give them support just because I didn't enjoy their show as much as the others. edit: by the way, I think the judges were wearing grey shirts last night :P And since when are the judges more important than the fans? My take on it was that it was always most important to put on a good show for the fans. Judges make the scores yes, but if you are going out and putting on a show for the judges, you are doing it for the wrong reasons, in my opinion.

I'm sorry I offended you with my choice in words. These were used to describe my personal opinion. I just hope you are mature enough to see through the verbage and see the message and meaning of what I was trying to say.

Make it generous though like 48 hours.

I know this is going to be what most people focus on because of the controversy. I couldn't agree with you more. It seems like the cascades design staff is completely in the clouds if they think that this is going to be widely accepted. I'm a cascades fan but this year's show was embarasing in my opinion and narration is not needed. They need to open their eyes up and realize that just because the CAN, doesn't mean they SHOULD. You gotta go with what is widely accepted and when it comes to narration, there are 3 categories: People who say that we need to "give it a chance", people who can't stand it, and people who either don't care or are willing to put up with it. But WHY TAKE THE CHANCE? You KNOW that at least SOME of the fans will disapprove, so why even go there? <sigh> :(

Yeah, that's the one. MMM. that's some sweet drummin'. They rocked the house! :)

Yeah I admit, I was watching that color guard kid as well. He was really good. ^OO^ The clip you posted showed some of the nice highlights of the show. Can you post a clip that includes some of the narration so others can hear it? Serious question for Mr. Peashy.... Given all the controversy surrounding amplification in drum corps, what made the Cascades decide to include it in their show knowing full well that many people would dislike it? I'm sure that even if you did an anonymous polling of the actual members themselves that many of them would preferr a show with no narration to a show that includes it. What was the reason you guys added that in your show, dispite all the controversy of it?

Good clip of OC. That's not the exact part of the BDB show I was referring to but still good none the less. Just waiting for the cascades clip to be posted now. Thanks by the way the clips are great.

Appairently you missed some parts in my review such as... ... and ... I don't blame the kids at all. They are very talented. I think that, given a better show to work with, they could be right up there in the top ten even. They executed the show they were given very well. They were tight, together, clean, great tone...They did really well. Unfortunately it is all overshadowed by a poor show from a design standpoint. Performance wise, they were well deserving of their 70 points and more but the GE of the show due to design was really bad in my humble opinion. I was upset at the idea last year but I was told "give it a chance". So I did. I gave the Carolina Crown show a chance. I hated it. The show was good but the narration ruined it. I thought that maybe it was just that one show and that others would come up with better ideas for the mics like actual singing or something. So I gave this year's cascades show a chance, and I hated it as well. I'd say I've given it a fair chance and so far I do not like what I see. HOWEVER, please don't focus on just the narration being a part of the show only. If you read my review, I disliked it for many other reasons as well. For instance, if they had to have the narration in, they could have possibly recruited with the narration in mind to find someone with an appropriate voice and they could have placed it in the show better so that it didn't cover up the exciting brass parts that the horns played so well. So what I mean is that if they had decided that they were going to do it, then they should have taken the effort to do it right. So far, it has not impressed me one bit. When I hear some of the really top knotch corps like Phantom, BD, SCV, Cavalier, etc, I get chills up my spine and it makes me want to jump up and clap when they really rock the house. I got that feeling when Blue Devils B drumline laid down their phat battery feature. I got that feeling when Phantom played. I got that feeling from many shows over the last few years. I like the feeling because its the closest feeling you can get to the feeling you get when you are actually out on the field marching. That feeling can't be compared to anything else but it's probably as close as you can get. I even get that feeling from some of the big moments in past Scades shows like their 2002 show or even the ending of their 2001 show. As for their 2005 show, I don't get that feeling at all. THAT is what gets a corp into the top spots.

Exactly. Saying it made them look ######## was not specifically meaning that all the kids are in fact mentally ill. Give me a break. You know what I meant. Stop taking things literally. That's like if I say something is stupid and thinking that I meant it had low intellegence rather than just that I disagreed with it.

Yeah, Spokane Thunder and Vanguard Cadets were also there. Nothing to jump up and down about but decent shows. For being so small, I thought Spokane thunder did a nice job. They had lots of potential. VC was pretty good and their drill was stronger than Blue Devils B and Oregon Crusaders IMO. The percussion was tight but nothing as hip as BD had.

Well, I'm not going to give a full review but I want to touch on a few things. If someone would like to do a full review here, please go for it. Luckily the weather man was way wrong when he predicted rain Saturday night because the weather turned out perfect, blue skys and nice mild weather ( around 70 degrees I think) that was just right. Well, it was the evening of the Seattle Cascades homeshow. The crowd was smaller than previous years, which was expected due to the weather prediction and show lineup (I think BD drew in a bigger crowd last year than PR). I don't normally buy a program but those sneaky people stuck the cutest little girl out front selling them and we couldn't resist her uber cuteness. CRIPES! The first corp was one of the best ones in my opinion, Blue Devils B. The percussion judge must have picked up on something I didn't because the percussion score was 14.90 which is .1 less than what the vangaurd cadets got. WTF <**> ! The BD percussion was WAY better! I really got into the drum break and the crowd loved it. Way to lay it down guys. You rocked the house! They defanitely deserved the second best score in the competition, but a 77.6? hmmm I think these scores were a little inflated. Maybe it's just me. The Oregon Crusaders show, while lacking the phatty percussion feature the BD had, felt overall more interesting from a brass perspective in my opinion. The problem was, it felt like I had heard that same show like a million times. The theme was sands of time and the songs felt like they just ripped off other corps old tunes accept made them worse. The show didnt seem to have contrast to me but rather it just felt like the same 30 seconds over and over and over through the whole show. They get soft, they crescendo to a loud whatever its called, then quiet again, then another crescendo, etc. Fever's show can be sumed up in two phrases: "Nice jazz run" and "get new uniforms". The uniforms were a major distraction because not only were they bland and ugly but the legs were not tapered enough so it looked like they were swimming in there. The show itself was nothing to jump up and down about but they performed well. Ok, so the Cascades show....where to start. Well the first thing you will notice when you see the show is the hidious guard outfits. WTF were they thinking? Think 2002 cavi outfits except in purple and hot pink. <**> Then you will notice the big orange (yes neon orange) circles, cubes, and triangle props on the field. They used the props to construct a shape of an airplane. Points for creativity but not much else. I feel like they were taking picaso and giving him a box of color crayons and a mickey mouse coloring book. This show would be a decent high school band show, that's about all. The horn parts and percussion parts were lacking and anything that could even be considered interesting was covered up by...you guessed it...narration. NARRATION!!! WTF!! And not even good narration at that! They kid they had doing the narration has a high pitched annoying voice and a friggin lisp! If you are going to try and be hip and have narration, at least get someone with a Vin Diesel voice in there, not the little scrawny 14 year old from the pit. And to top that, the narration RUINED the best brass parts by covering it up! Then to kick themselves while they were down, the poor guard members had to use kite-like airplanes and run around with them like they were somehow interesting. They just made it look elementary and people were literally in the stands laughing at them, AT THEIR OWN HOME SHOW! As for the drill, it seemed they barely left the center of the field. It looked like a jumble of people just running around with no forms or designs in some parts of the show whatsoever. I think the best words to discribe the drill at some points was organized chaos. Spread them out a little! Having that many people crammed between the 35 yard lines in curves is just plain messy and jumbled looking. BLEH! I'm sorry Sal, Kurt, Jeremy, Rob, Dave, and all you other members of the Scades staff for giving you such a bad review but seriously, it sucked guys. These kids have so much more talent and yet they are hampered by their horrible show. Overall my thoughts on the show were that it was an attempt to modernize but they did it in too many ways and ended up just ruining the whole show. Bad narration, bad colors, bad props, boring music and drill. Lots of potential lost to a really crummy show design in my opinion. Give your show to one of the local high schools and start from scratch in my opinion. This corp will NOT make finals this year. There I said it, they won't, and they shouldn't. Do they have skills to compete against the other div 1 corps? yes, but their show when compared to other division 1 corps can not measure up to what it needs to be for a finalist corp. I was very disapointed. I need to make myself clear that I am not disapointed in the members as they performed it well and have a lot of talent and potential but my disapointment is with the design team for making such a talented corp look so silly and ######## out there. Oh ya, and Phantom was great. Great horns. Recognisable melodies. A nice relief after the Cascades show. Cascades need to look at these guys for an example because THAT is the kind of show that gets you into finals, not the junk that they have. I think everyone out here really appreciates Phantom for coming all the way up here. Having a big name Div 1 corp out here helps draw more crowd which supports the music in the northwest. Overall, I enjoyed the shows although last year was better. The division 2 corps sounded really good this year though, although I think their scores may have been a little inflated, as well as the Cascades score. The end of the night featured the hornlines from Phantom and Cascades performing America O Canada which was excellent. Then the Cascades performed a standstill of their warmups and their show. If you ask me, I give their field show a score of 50 and their standstill a score of 75. The standstill was a million times better for many reasons: No ugly color guard uniforms and silly airplanes, no distracting narrations, no sloppy jumbled drill, and no elementary looking props....just the music. The music in itself is very pretty. Too bad it gets lost in all the other stuff that takes away from it. Well. Sorry for such a bad review but hey, at least I am honest.