Tom Brace Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 1. Do nothing about DCI. Let them continue as is, with their system intact and unthreatened. (In other words, give them the chance to live that they never gave us.) I like #1. This is really such a simplistic blame everyone else account of what really happened since 1972 it hardly deserves an answer. 1. Corps folded before DCI and they folded after. 2. If people were hankering for G bugles and 1970s classic drum corps in any great number, they'd be showing up at DCA Senior corps events and their audience numbers are just as flat as DCIs (sans last year when DCI saw a HUGE jump in finals attendance. 3. DCI is not to blame here. They went where the future of this activity lies...high school marching bands and they are getting consistent new membership. Even good membership is being seen by Open Class corps or so I read. 4. Trying to solve a problem that is bigger than anyone is willing to talk about isn't going to make a dent in solving the problem. The problem is and has always been that drum corps is a niche activity within the larger niche activity of marching arts. But, if you insist...let's go down the "more than just rehash this issue" side of things. How much have the "legacy" classic drum corps folks raised to begin this circuit? I'm just being a realist here....get $1.5M - $2M in the bank and then you have a shot at making this thing happen. Less than that...you're just fooling yourselves. And puhleeze....give up on the whole G idea. That horse is gone and left the barn and NO major manufacturer has sets of Gs sitting on the shelves waiting to sell. They are now a special (probably very special) order and would A) cost corps too much at the outset and B) would not return their value when attempting to resell or trade in. So....there's tonight's cold water treatment on an old idea that's getting more and more tired each time it's brought up. So let me ask the real question...of the currently active Open Class corps...who's willing to rest YOUR future with a fledgling start up could be maybe it will work circuit over DCI? I'm still waiting for the first current Open corps leader to choose anything over DCI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Corps folded before DCI and they folded after. But the distinction between the "before" and "after" is that before 1972, new corps started up at a rate that balanced (or exceeded) the attrition rate. Starting somewhere near 1972, attrition began outpacing startups, and the 400-plus field-competitive junior corps we had back then have shrunk to less than 50....and still counting down. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be so quick to poo-poo someone's idea of how to address this situation unless I had an idea of my own to offer instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicdirect Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I think a new drum corps circuit for Regional based lower budget corps would be a great thing and show growth over time. These same units can continue to compete at the DCI level if desired. Example: Regions - South, Midwest, Northeast, Southwest, and West. Keep these groups working from July 1st thru August 1st. 4 or 5 shows, various parades and performances My 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 But the distinction between the "before" and "after" is that before 1972, new corps started up at a rate that balanced (or exceeded) the attrition rate. Starting somewhere near 1972, attrition began outpacing startups, and the 400-plus field-competitive junior corps we had back then have shrunk to less than 50....and still counting down.I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be so quick to poo-poo someone's idea of how to address this situation unless I had an idea of my own to offer instead. My idea is already being implemented. 100-120 shows across the country over 7-8 weeks in the summer. DCI aligning more with the high school marching band product because that's where the support is coming from...oh...and also the members. And to date...the audience numbers have not diminished so far this decade. So it seems to me...the idea to save drum corps is being implemented. I'm on board with it...you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) I think a new drum corps circuit for Regional based lower budget corps would be a great thing and show growth over time. These same units can continue to compete at the DCI level if desired.Example: Regions - South, Midwest, Northeast, Southwest, and West. Keep these groups working from July 1st thru August 1st. 4 or 5 shows, various parades and performances My 2 cents you can have all the contests you want...tell me where you are going to find the audience. Marc Grofstein (Capital Sound) pointed out correctly that II/III, now Open Class has stuggled historically to develop their own audience. Without paying customers to any great degree a new circuit won't survive. Invent it on paper all you want, but it's paying seat holders who allow a circuit to thrive, survive or die. Marc also said just be adding even one World Class corps to a show spikes attendance significantly. What does that tell you? I agree with Marc. Open Class directors need to be focused on bringing a product to the field that people will pay money to see. I believe great strides have been made in the past couple of years. 2005 II/III finals in Madison were one of the best I'd ever seen top to bottom. Edited March 31, 2008 by Tom Brace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) My idea is already being implemented. 100-120 shows across the country over 7-8 weeks in the summer. DCI aligning more with the high school marching band product because that's where the support is coming from...oh...and also the members.And to date...the audience numbers have not diminished so far this decade. So it seems to me...the idea to save drum corps is being implemented. I'm on board with it...you? I don't disagree with anything you've said here ... and I don't think that drum corps needs "saving" ... Given all that, though, I still think there is a gap in the marketplace beyond high school marching band programs, yet not to the level of the elite DCI corps. Somewhere between the hundreds of thousands of kids marching in high school and the single digit thousands marching in DCI, I think there is a market. Doesn't mean that DCI is doing anything wrong ... doesn't mean that it would be easy ... but I think there is a market between the mature, all-talent-level, mostly local high school circuits and the mature, high-talent-level, mostly national DCI circuit. Would it require tireless effort to start? Absolutely... Would it require significant start-up money? Sure... Would it require intensive marketing to find, size, and attract the paying customer base? Yes ... Would it be a risky venture, subject to failure? Without a doubt .... ... all just like any start-up venture seeking to fill a gap in any marketspace. I agree that DCI is doing and has done a fine job in sustaining a portion of the marching arts marketplace. So has DCA and BOA and other high school circuits. And maybe the paths each took were the necessary ones to get us here. But I do think that there is now (or in the near future) an opportunity to expand the offerings in this marketplace ... again, not based on rules changes, but on infrastructure/circuit issues .... attracting the community support and community participants that now fill and support high school programs but aren't interested/capable of going national with DCI. Edited March 31, 2008 by Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayre Kulp Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 YES! (sans the "stupid" part) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I don't disagree with anything you've said here ... and I don't think that drum corps needs "saving" ...Given all that, though, I still think there is a gap in the marketplace beyond high school marching band programs, yet not to the level of the elite DCI corps. Somewhere between the hundreds of thousands of kids marching in high school and the single digit thousands marching in DCI, I think there is a market. Doesn't mean that DCI is doing anything wrong ... doesn't mean that it would be easy ... but I think there is a market between the mature, all-talent-level, mostly local high school circuits and the mature, high-talent-level, mostly national DCI circuit. Would it require tireless effort to start? Absolutely... Would it require significant start-up money? Sure... Would it require intensive marketing to find, size, and attract the paying customer base? Yes ... Would it be a risky venture, subject to failure? Without a doubt .... ... all just like any start-up venture seeking to fill a gap in any marketspace. I agree that DCI is doing and has done a fine job in sustaining a portion of the marching arts marketplace. So has DCA and BOA and other high school circuits. And maybe the paths each took were the necessary ones to get us here. But I do think that there is now (or in the near future) an opportunity to expand the offerings in this marketplace ... again, not based on rules changes, but on infrastructure/circuit issues .... attracting the community support and community participants that now fill and support high school programs but aren't interested/capable of going national with DCI. Isn't this the "gap" that Open Class is supposed to fill? Here's the only issue with it. You gotta build an audience for it. People have to see what a good product it is. That hasn't happened for II/III. Maybe Open Class will have a better chance. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Isn't this the "gap" that Open Class is supposed to fill? Here's the only issue with it. You gotta build an audience for it. People have to see what a good product it is. That hasn't happened for II/III. Maybe Open Class will have a better chance. Maybe. Not sure. If Open class is "supposed" to fill this gap (and I'm not sure that is their purpopse), they're not doing a very good job of it, imo. I wonder if the fact the Open Class is still run by DCI, which is really in the business of running the top circuit, maybe that is holding this back. Maybe an independant organization with independant goals could tackle this from a different persepective. Don't the Div II/III/Open class corps still generally tour and practice full time like the big boys? (I could be wrong about this). Not sure really, but just looking at all the hundreds of thousands of high school marchers (and their parents and family who come to watch them march at local shows), vs the single digit thousands of Open and World class combined who travel nationally and attempt to attract a "non-member-affiliated" paying crowd, I see a huge gap (and opportunity). My point is that I believe there is a gap in the market -- if Open class can fill it -- GREAT!!! If another independant organization can fill it -- GREAT!!! Maybe there is room for both, but it's not just going to "happen" -- i.e., if we form a corps, they will come .... It needs to be a coordinated, long-term, focused, goal-driven effort to market, administrate, and manage. (SIMPLE!!! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Not sure. If Open class is "supposed" to fill this gap (and I'm not sure that is their purpopse), they're not doing a very good job of it, imo. I wonder if the fact the Open Class is still run by DCI, which is really in the business of running the top circuit, maybe that is holding this back. Maybe an independant organization with independant goals could tackle this from a different persepective. Don't the Div II/III/Open class corps still generally tour and practice full time like the big boys? (I could be wrong about this).Not sure really, but just looking at all the hundreds of thousands of high school marchers (and their parents and family who come to watch them march at local shows), vs the single digit thousands of Open and World class combined who travel nationally and attempt to attract a "non-member-affiliated" paying crowd, I see a huge gap (and opportunity). My point is that I believe there is a gap in the market -- if Open class can fill it -- GREAT!!! If another independant organization can fill it -- GREAT!!! Maybe there is room for both, but it's not just going to "happen" -- i.e., if we form a corps, they will come .... It needs to be a coordinated, long-term, focused, goal-driven effort to market, administrate, and manage. (SIMPLE!!! ) and it has to start with $$$ in the bank. Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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