Ungratefull kids?

[MHSmirage]

My JV has been, to say the least, a handfull of headache. Today was championships for the Reg A guards in our circuit and I was just happy to have survived the season. I prepped the girls by saying "it's not about the placement..." and thanking them for sticking it out. I was a bit disappointed that they had a not-so-clean run of the show...two of them were freaked about how big the venue is. I figured after that the placement would be low.

Full retreat and my kids were announced 5th in their division out of 10 (16th in the entire class of 31). I thought it was generous....then I see the frown faced, arms crossed, eyes rolling badditudes that were permeating from my girls. I was so embarassed. I've told them multiple times how to act in retreat and when scores are announced....and they still act like that! So peeved. My varsity girls (who attended to help with the floor and to be supportive) were so disapointed and embarassed.

I know I need to rectify the situation on Monday in class, but don't want to end the entire season for the 'babie guard' on a sour note. Any ideas and has anyone had this or something esk of this happen?

[guard_for_life]

That's really sad, and tough to deal with as the director. Have they been doing well all along this season? And this was just a bad run? It doesn't excuse the behavior, but it does explain it.

I've always used these as teachable moments. While the kids may have known what the right way to behave was - they may not have realized their behaviors were so obvious, or they may not have beeen able to control them. disappointment is always hard, but it's a life lesson they need to learn.

My first reaction would be to talk through the show with them, what went well and what needed work. And what will be improved upon next season. And then include their behavior as part of the 'things we need to work on'. I always talk with my kids about the reputation of the guard and what we want people to think about us. And the fact that most impressions are when we are off the floor rather than on. Do we help other guards out, do we cheer for everyone or talk about them? Those kinds of things. And then I talk about how that reputation can affect our placements.

Wrap it all into one. While it would be a time you want to yell loudly - I think you need to focus on this as another area for growth and development. They are kids, after all. And I'm finding that more and more parents AREN'T teaching these kinds of life lessons, making it tougher on us as instructors.

Edited March 30, 2008 by guard_for_life

[MHSmirage]

That's just it! My JV guard has been 7th all season. They went UP in score and placement and are still pissy about not medaling.

Edited March 30, 2008 by MHSmirage

[wtxcg]

That's just it! My JV guard has been 7th all season. They went UP in score and placement and are still pissy about not medaling.

My rec:

Don't say anything to them about the show come Monday. Head band director talks to them first by saying "parents from other schools" complained about their behavior to him personally. You just stand back and let the ship run aground. Even when lecture is over you express your disappointment with nonchalant silence. When they realize how major they poo'd, the problems will have fix themselves. The basket-cases will be absent from your tryout roster for next season.

[EDIT ...]

I know positive life changing experiences are what we go for in this activity, but sometimes kids need tough love. Especially when they put the school's and the staff's reps on the line... The two programs I couldn't get in line up in OK turned a corner when I tried this tactic on the recommend of an older band director from the area. Dead spot on permanent fix!

Edited March 30, 2008 by wtxcg

[KaeMe01]

My rec:

Don't say anything to them about the show come Monday. Head band director talks to them first by saying "parents from other schools" complained about their behavior to him personally. You just stand back and let the ship run aground. Even when lecture is over you express your disappointment with nonchalant silence. When they realize how major they poo'd, the problems will have fix themselves. The basket-cases will be absent from your tryout roster for next season.

[EDIT ..]

The two programs I couldn't get in line up in OK turned a corner when I tried this tactic on the recommend of an older band director from the area. Dead spot on permanent fix!

I second that idea, I remember when members of our band and guard caused problems for everyone else. When we got lectured it was like "whatever who cares" but the silence was deadly.... it leaves you wondering how they feel and even if you didn't do anything you still feel bad. Silence is the winner in this one.

[MHSmirage]

In extreme situations, I've used the 'head band director' card before with other programs....works every time. I guess I'm just bummed at how my babies acted. At least my varsity members saw what NOT to do in retreat.

[justgin]

Hey Heather. The option I was thinking of (and have used) is pretty much the opposite. Take the video and the kids and pick it apart. Use the pause button and be very direct with pointing out the specific errors throughout the show, naming names and asking them, "Do you see that you're not doing what everyone else is there?" or "Remember us talking about that you need to be at this checkpoint, and you're not." After going through the whole tape, ask them how they think the outcome might be different if they each fixed all of the things you just pointed out. Ask them if they think all of the things you pointed out might be worth 2 placements or however many points you were out of 3rd. Show them directly how THEIR actions affect THEIR placement. Then finish with reminding them that they did come up two places, and that after their performance, while it could have been better, you were proud of them for the performance. But that feeling of being proud of them changed to disappointment when you saw them in retreat and realized that they still aren't aware enough of their own mistakes to realize that they are the only ones who determined their own placement with the things you just discussed in the video. The ones you want to keep will be upset that you are disappointed...........the ones you don't need will be mad that you blamed them, and you'll get a clear picture of who needs to not make it next year, if they even bother to audition again. Just my take on it....

~ginger

[dugg]

oh how i miss the days when insolent children were beaten unmercifully with a car antenna!

[quegrawks]

Hey Heather. The option I was thinking of (and have used) is pretty much the opposite. Take the video and the kids and pick it apart. Use the pause button and be very direct with pointing out the specific errors throughout the show, naming names and asking them, "Do you see that you're not doing what everyone else is there?" or "Remember us talking about that you need to be at this checkpoint, and you're not." After going through the whole tape, ask them how they think the outcome might be different if they each fixed all of the things you just pointed out. Ask them if they think all of the things you pointed out might be worth 2 placements or however many points you were out of 3rd. Show them directly how THEIR actions affect THEIR placement. Then finish with reminding them that they did come up two places, and that after their performance, while it could have been better, you were proud of them for the performance. But that feeling of being proud of them changed to disappointment when you saw them in retreat and realized that they still aren't aware enough of their own mistakes to realize that they are the only ones who determined their own placement with the things you just discussed in the video. The ones you want to keep will be upset that you are disappointed...........the ones you don't need will be mad that you blamed them, and you'll get a clear picture of who needs to not make it next year, if they even bother to audition again. Just my take on it....

~ginger

Great suggestions, Ginger! When we get the video of our show (hopefully soon! We were told we'd get them immediately after the show, but that didn't happen), I plan on doing this with my girls who were disappointed in their finish. I wanted to be positive with them, so I told them that it had been their best performance of the season-- which it had been, most of them were performing.

But after retreat when they were shocked at being low, they asked me why they hadn't placed higher. I told them that the performance was good, but that others performed just as well, if not better, and that frankly, their equipment work and movement were kind of sloppy, which then affects the other caption scores. When the video gets here, I can show them what I mean. Luckily, a few of them saw pictures that their parents and friends had taken during the show and saw all sorts of differences in timing and angles of equipment, so I think that may have shocked them into understanding a little bit.

Heather: your guard wasn't the only one to make faces when placements were announced! However, I think you're right in being disappointed in that kind of behavior. My suggestion would be to let the older kids talk to them about it to them, since you do have a varsity guard, and let the younger ones know their opinions. Sometimes students "teaching" students is a really great way to go. Just be around so it doesn't get out of hand!

[byline]

This situation reminds me a lot of my third year in Madisonville. For whatever reason, those girls felt a very strong sense of entitlement, and it created many, many woes that carried over into later years. It didn't help that it was the biggest guard I ever taught, and there were just so many of them that they firmly believed their sheer numbers and "prettiness" (for lack of a better word) should have taken care of everything. No amount of rational explaining "the real world" to them, pointing out errors, playing the band director card, etc., changed their minds. And then there was a fair bit of jealousy amongst certain guard members which really mucked up the works.

Before anyone ask, "Why didn't you just kick them out?" I had very little control in the way of guard membership because, even though I oversaw tryouts (along with the band directors), the guard members were also band members, and this was a two-semester class credit (marching band first semester, concert band second). Girls who may have had a bad attitude in guard were often good musicians in band, but played a "dispensable" instrument for marching band. So that logic played a big role in who got chosen for guard. Unfortunately, it wasn't always about who made the best guard members.

I tried the "tough love" approach, with varying degrees of success. A lot of it depends on your kids and what they attitudes they carry into the guard with them. I found that for whatever reason, different class years were very different. Some of my most talented guards were the hardest to work with because they felt that given their talent, they didn't need to put in the elbow grease. Ironically, my last year to teach, I had a lot of young, inexperienced girls, but for the most part they were willing to listen and work hard, so I had very few "entitlement" issues with them. And, for that reason, they were one of my favorite guards to teach.