quegrawks Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Once upon a time WGI had a "Senior Class" made up of age-outs (23+ year olds) who still wanted to spin. However, since the age-limit was eliminated for guards, there is no "Senior" division, even though there are still senior guards out there. Now, I'm not downing senior guards, I've been a member of a GREAT one, but there are a few guards who seem to form, go to Dayton, and score something like a 20 in prelims because they're not really world guards-- they are more like Regional A, A, or maybe Open guards who are forced to perform in World class because of the age of their members instead of the quality of their productions and their talent levels. I think it would be fun to see a "senior" class to see how these age-outs who don't have the time or money, or have real-lives that interfere with 15-hour long rehearsals, but who still want to spin compete against one another on a national level. Maybe even if they only did it every 3 years or so? But to have them compete against World guards simply because of their ages seems a bit unfair to me. Was the main reason for getting rid of these groups due to the removal of the age-limit for world class, or were there other reasons involved? For many, World guards are not an option because they are so expensive or there is not one around (for example, the Closest world guard to me is over 3 hours away-- that's a lot of expense on top of dues, etc.). Why does WGI seem to be so opposed to lifting the age restrictions on A and Open guards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senagod Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 (edited) Mike, PM me and I'll talk to you all the live-long day about my feelings on this subject. They never did have the senior class at Dayton, only at the regionals. As you may or may not know, the Mid-Atlantic regional used to have three senior guards show up. It was a great opportunity to compete against other senior guards, make some new acquaintances, score some cheap bragging rights. When we had to go in world class, we just hoped not to embarrass ourselves. I'll guess that one of the reasons may be that most local circuits do not have a senior class. Even when you have a local circuit that offers a senior class, they may differ as to what sheets to judge them on. TIA and AIA use the open class sheets. North East circuit uses A class sheets. I don't know what Mid-West used when Back N Sync was around. Edited March 31, 2008 by Senagod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quegrawks Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share Posted March 31, 2008 Mike, PM me and I'll talk to you all the live-long day about my feelings on this subject. They never did have the senior class at Dayton, only at the regionals. As you may or may not know, the Mid-Atlantic regional used to have three senior guards show up. It was a great opportunity to compete against other senior guards, make some new acquaintances, score some cheap bragging rights. When we had to go in world class, we just hoped not to embarrass ourselves.I'll guess that one of the reasons may be that most local circuits do not have a senior class. Even when you have a local circuit that offers a senior class, they may differ as to what sheets to judge them on. TIA and AIA use the open class sheets. North East circuit uses A class sheets. I don't know what Mid-West used when Back N Sync was around. I know they didn't have them at Dayton, which is something else I wondered about, but decided not to include it. Ah, I remember the days of actual competition against other senior guards at regionals, though. . . *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
classicslv Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 hey Mike, Here's your answer ~~~~~> $$$$$$$$ Although there a a handful of Senior guards spread throughout the country the overall interest just was not there to establish the class. Lifting the age limit in World class opened up the opportunity for the more serious "age outs" that did have the time, talent and money to pursure a few additional seasons after aging out. As you mentioned some senior guards are more of an A class level pretty much due to the amount of time they rehearse and funds they have to spend. Having many members that also teach is another obsticle we and other senior guards have. Many of the senior guards that are around do not have the time or funds to rehearse as the World guards do. I wish our group did, but we do what we can during the one day a week we get. I don't consider my group your "average senior guard" however we are lucky that we have the region where we can attract some good talent. We also have a program established to raise funds to invest into our programs. maybe one day we will make it out to Dayton to compete. As far as WGI goes, if you are not attracting the money then you are not an asset to them. If you won't pack the stands and sell tickets then it is not worth the expence. Senior guards are too spread out to really get everyone together fro a full class competition. In the past we tried to invite Senior guards from the east coast region to utilize the Mid Atlantic regional as our sort of "championships showdown" if you want to call it that. It was fun indeed to meet other groups from all over that were able to make it. There were many that made it through the years and overall always felt we supported each other even though we were competing with one another. Mid-Atlantic regional was able to host: Esquire Sr THE Guard Sr Voque Sr Winter Sky Sr AssemblyLine Sr Light Brigade Sr Back-n-Sync Sr Age to Perfection Sr any others I am missing??? Tommy THE GUARD, SR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quegrawks Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 Mid-Atlantic regional was able to host: Esquire Sr THE Guard Sr Voque Sr Winter Sky Sr AssemblyLine Sr Light Brigade Sr Back-n-Sync Sr Age to Perfection Sr any others I am missing??? Tommy THE GUARD, SR Did Lightning ever go to a regional? I know they went to Wildwood. There was another one too, but I don't remember their name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senagod Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Did Lightning ever go to a regional? I know they went to Wildwood. There was another one too, but I don't remember their name. I don't think Lightning ever went to the Mid-Atlantic regional, and I've been attending that regional (either as a spectator or performing) since 1997, only missing the one year it was in Trenton, and that was after Lightning folded. The other senior guard you're thinking of is Attitude (aka Firebird) from Pittsburgh, and they were never at the regional during the years I've been there either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsOnTheField Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Regional A class was also eliminated from WGI the same time Senior Class was. I agree about the financial aspect as well as eliminating these classes did allow for more A, Open and World guards to enter the Regional competitions. The nice thing about the change, though, did allow Senior guards to attend WGI Finals...I'm pretty sure I've seen some in Dayton and maybe even San Diego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybabay Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 In MN Northstar circuit we have three of them all from Sr corps in the area; MN Brass, Governaires and CHops. They do it strictly for fun and mostly to keep skills up - although Chops in making the journey East at World level. I am a judge in the circuit and it has been a constant struggle as to what sheets to fairly put them under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senagod Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Regional A class was also eliminated from WGI the same time Senior Class was. I agree about the financial aspect as well as eliminating these classes did allow for more A, Open and World guards to enter the Regional competitions. The nice thing about the change, though, did allow Senior guards to attend WGI Finals...I'm pretty sure I've seen some in Dayton and maybe even San Diego. The Cadet and Novice classes were eliminated as well around that time. As for whether it allowed more A, Open, and World guards to enter the regionals...it did and it didn't at the same time. It did at first, but then WGI placed some restrictions on the regionals (has to start and end by a certain time, making more regionals one-day, limiting the total number of units), so it kind of canceled the effect of eliminating the classes. As an example, 90 units were at the Mid-Atlantic regional in 1997, and that's only counting the units that performed, not counting the units that were listed in the program but didn't perform. Of those 90 units, 19 of those were from the Cadet, Novice, Regional A, and Senior classes. In 2008, we had 70 units at the Mid-Atlantic regional. There's some inherent flaws in this comparison (guards folding, etc.), but once WGI placed the restriction on the number of units that could perform at a regional, the net number of A, Open, and World guards performing is essentially the same. 71 units in 1997, 70 in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsOnTheField Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Cadet and Novice classes were eliminated as well around that time. As for whether it allowed more A, Open, and World guards to enter the regionals...it did and it didn't at the same time. It did at first, but then WGI placed some restrictions on the regionals (has to start and end by a certain time, making more regionals one-day, limiting the total number of units), so it kind of canceled the effect of eliminating the classes. As an example, 90 units were at the Mid-Atlantic regional in 1997, and that's only counting the units that performed, not counting the units that were listed in the program but didn't perform. Of those 90 units, 19 of those were from the Cadet, Novice, Regional A, and Senior classes. In 2008, we had 70 units at the Mid-Atlantic regional. There's some inherent flaws in this comparison (guards folding, etc.), but once WGI placed the restriction on the number of units that could perform at a regional, the net number of A, Open, and World guards performing is essentially the same. 71 units in 1997, 70 in 2008. Correct, but if the cadet, novice, regional a, senior guards were still part of the mix, that would still mean less A, open and World participating units and those are the ones potentially going to Dayton (or where ever finals may be) and need to attend a regional. I understand your point, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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