Brad T. Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 What type of solder is preferred for repairing loose braces on a horn? And, what is an acceptable type? I've heard silver solder is preferred, but lead solder without a rosin core can be used. I picked up a P/R soprano that isn't even in "lamp" condition currently. I liken it to "Applebee's wall hanger" condition. I'm going to use it to learn how to solder and repair braces. I have a general idea, but I was practicing on another person's beater horn so care was not taken :) Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonofjabba Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 (edited) 50/50 NON Rosin Core, and Ultra Flux. Cleanliness counts The Cleaner the better Save Silver Solder for High Stress Areas. And Heavy Load bearing joints. It's very expensive, since you're learning. 50/50 is your best bet. If you get good at Braze Welding/Soldering You can Make Very Good money. It's a dying skill. Edited March 22, 2010 by sonofjabba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad T. Posted March 22, 2010 Author Share Posted March 22, 2010 Sounds good to me! I worked in a music store with a small repair shop back in high school, and the repair tech used to show me how to do various things. It's something I've been hugely interested in for a long time. I also know that for brass horns you never, EVER, use anything bigger than a pocket butane torch, or you risk heating everything up and having all of the solder joints come apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow_7 Posted March 22, 2010 Share Posted March 22, 2010 From what I remember of the tech BITD, there was acid involved to rough up the solder surface. Rosin based is for electronics. Don't use it on horns. And of course manage heat properly. Don't over do it, round tubes will warp. And remove the valves before heating the horn. Some have PLASTIC parts on them now. Plastic + Heat == BAD... Mmmm Kay.... Even without plastic parts you don't want cheap alloy valve caps and such warping with heat. It is a lost art. Especially with a lot of the smaller chains going out of business. Shipping x2 + repair == expensive. If you can take shipping x2 out of the picture, you WIN!!! At least locally. It might not be enough business to retire on, but it should keep you out of trouble. And of course cleanliness is king. Dirt + Heat == Undo-able. And remove any tape / stickers from the horn BEFORE applying heat. <insert forest gump quote> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad T. Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Well, I only burned myself once, and that wasn't even direct from the flames, I just brushed my knuckles up against a piece of the horn I just put back together. So some Neosporin and bandages, mixed with plenty of airing too and I'll be fine. By the time I was ready to solder the braces, some light playing with the braces yielded my entire leadpipe coming off. Got all of the braces put back on. Not the best looking job, but if you saw the horn, you'd understand. Now I just need to find a water key pad, and figure out why there's a leak coming from the water key area that I can't stop by taping over the hole... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Well, I only burned myself once, and that wasn't even direct from the flames .......Now I just need to find a water key pad, and figure out why there's a leak coming from the water key area that I can't stop by taping over the hole... Soldering 101, lesson 1: Hot metal often looks just like cold metal. Your leak is most likely in the solder joint under the waterkey nipple. Probably not a good solder job by the manufacturer, and corrosion has set in. Waterkey repairs are tricky, lots can go awry. Best to find a tech who knows what he's doing and has the proper gizmos. It won't take long and should cost only a few bucks. But I have seen some jerk charge 50, needless to say walk right out the door if you're quoted big bucks. And don't drop off a repair job at the counter without getting a price estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad T. Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 After some careful electrical taping, it appears that I have two leaks: one around the water key nipple, and one past the water key where the leadpipe goes into the larger diameter pipe for the tuning slide. This horn is an Olds Ultratone, so I doubt the horn originally had any factory defects, however, judging by the plating scars and discolorations, my solder job was nowhere near the first one done to this horn. My biggest problem thus far is trying to get the solder to flow into the tiny tiny space between the leadpipe and tuning slide outer pipe to fill in that leak. Oh well, black electrical tape does wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 After some careful electrical taping, it appears that I have two leaks: one around the water key nipple, and one past the water key where the leadpipe goes into the larger diameter pipe for the tuning slide. This horn is an Olds Ultratone, so I doubt the horn originally had any factory defects, however, judging by the plating scars and discolorations, my solder job was nowhere near the first one done to this horn. My biggest problem thus far is trying to get the solder to flow into the tiny tiny space between the leadpipe and tuning slide outer pipe to fill in that leak. Oh well, black electrical tape does wonders. If the joint surfaces are not impecably clean, you can have a bad joint and hence a leak. I know it is a lot of work, but you might need to go back and redo the whole job to get rid of the leak. Now you know why good plumbers make good money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) My biggest problem thus far is trying to get the solder to flow into the tiny tiny space between the leadpipe and tuning slide outer pipe to fill in that leak. Solder flows toward heat. Sometimes, you can fix a corroded joint with repeated shots of a really "hot" flux. Use a needle dispenser, just a few drops at a time. The beauty of a chrome bugle is that the solder won't stick to chrome, and the flux won't stain it. However, too much heat will permanently turn it blue. Edited March 23, 2010 by HornsUp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ereese Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Solder flows toward heat.Sometimes, you can fix a corroded joint with repeated shots of a really "hot" flux. Use a needle dispenser, just a few drops at a time. The beauty of a chrome bugle is that the solder won't stick to chrome, and the flux won't stain it. However, too much heat will permanently turn it blue. I'd contact Paul Collins at the Brass Shop. I'm sure he can advise, help. Mention my name and he'll charge you double. --------------->http://www.thebrassshoponline.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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