Instrumentation Question

[Skylinersop16]

Probably an easy to answer question but I honestly don't know. I need to write for a "Bb" line but I am not sure what the actual keys are. I know the trumpets are Bb and the mellophones are F, but what about the low brass? Are they really Cs or are they Bbs as well?

[TAFL]

Probably an easy to answer question but I honestly don't know. I need to write for a "Bb" line but I am not sure what the actual keys are. I know the trumpets are Bb and the mellophones are F, but what about the low brass? Are they really Cs or are they Bbs as well?

Bass clef parts are non-transposing, so write them in concert key. You only have to worry about what key the low brass horns are in if you're writing treble clef parts for them.

[Skylinersop16]

I write both clefs

[Soprano Martin]

Well if you are writing both clefs (why?!), then the low brass is generally in Bb. Some exceptions can be made for Tubas in C, F, and Eb

Honestly though, unless you are writing for a traditional British Brass band, you should have no need to write a treble clef low brass part. Put the Baritone, trombone, Euphonium and Tuba parts in concert key Bass Clef. And if you are writting for Brass Band, those F horns better get lost and find some Eb Altos!

Occasionally a Baritone player that switched from say tpt to bari will need the treble clef, but thats generally less common.

[HornsUp]

Some exceptions can be made for Tubas in C, F, and Eb.

F and CC tubas always read concert pitch bass clef.

Edited November 12, 2010 by HornsUp

[Skylinersop16]

Honestly all the talk about concert pitch and all that confuses me as I never really paid much attention. Just need to know what the actual horn is keyed to. I have a huge range of people from all different backgrounds and some can only read treble.

What I know is that a G contra is a G contra whether the player is reading bass or treble. Just would like to know what the contras and baris are in a Bb line.

All the information so far has been insightful but I'm afraid it doesn't help my original question...

[Shadow_7]

In small groups, it is common for a Trumpet player to step down to a Baritone. So treble clef parts are not always optional. And common for Baritone players to step up to Trumpet. So a Bass clef trumpet part might also be needed.

For Bb Trumpet, a written treble clef C sounds a Bb.

For Bb Baritone, a written bass clef C sounds a C.

Clefs remain the same, just the octave that's played depending on the horn differs. Basically Treble Baritone reads a Trumpet part and sounds an octave lower. Don't let concert pitch confuse you. It's the same thing as saying a written C sounds a C. If you have older drumcorps alumni, they probably read only treble clef depending on the corps. For all parts including Contra. That way you only had to print a trumpet fingering chart for all. Back when all were in G's including mello / frenchie. Written C sounded a G on the old G bugles (for Bb Treble clef anyway) / (Written Bb sounds a G in bass clef). I'm not entirely sure about the F horns. Written C sounds an F? Same fingerings as trumpet clef? Or completely different? Starting to confuse myself now.

[rootofthechord]

Modern-day contras and baris are pitched the same as trumpets - Bb and BBb, respectively. In a treble clef situation, they are scored exactly the same as a trumpet - low C = low C, etc.

Edit: Didn't notice you wrote both clefs.

Edited November 12, 2010 by rootofthechord

[G-horns]

Harry,

There are as many ways to write music as there are people to read it.

Those that say all G bugle parts are in treble clef haven't seen Dreitzer's contra parts in bass clef but transposed so C on the horn is second space.

Writing for a multi-key brass ensemble is going to be a challenge if you try to do it directly to the transposed instruments. My advice is to write in the concert key (two half-steps below trumpet key) and then transpose the trumpets and middle horns. Leave the baritone and tuba parts in bass clef and don't transpose them. Get your players to read bass clef if at all possible. Only if forced into doing so should you transpose the baritone parts to treble clef. I know this sounds like I'm a bando, but get your hands on a couple marching band charts and see where the trumpet, horn, t'bone, bari and tuba parts lie. You will not build confidence in your players if they are trying to play outside the usual range of their instrument.

It will never happen, but wouldn't it be nice if all instruments read in concert key regardless of the natural key of the instrument? We wouldn't have to go through all this transposition baloney.

If you want some additional help, PM me.

[HornsUp]

wouldn't it be nice if all instruments read in concert key regardless of the natural key of the instrument? We wouldn't have to go through all this transposition baloney.

We have to go through this baloney because it's one of our job skills.

If all the instruments were written in concert key (to make it easier for "us") the poor dumb players would have to learn different fingerings for every instrument in the family.

[And that would be absolutely disastrous for saxophone players.]

Edited November 12, 2010 by HornsUp