stein456 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have some older brass horns that have some minor brakage. Spit keys fell off and some pipe seperation. My question is: can one use a soldering iron and a standard " resin core " solder for these repairs ? I am aware that silver solder is supposed to be utilized in these instances, but I understand it is VERY EXPENSIVE. The soldering proceedure would be to heat both pieces and drop the solder on the brake, then hold till it cools. Is this correct? Any help wouldd be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 (edited) Steinie, A GOOD hobby shop or hardware store will carry 'Sta-Brite' solder, which has a silver base. I used it a lot on some model locomotives I have built. It is a very strong solder and doesn't have the very high melting point of regular silver solder. Make sure that both surfaces to be soldered together are CLEAN. Use a fine emery cloth to shine both surfaces and be certain that all the old solder is removed. Sta-Brite comes with its own flux. Use it! Put the pieces together, apply flux and then heat. Apply the solder on the tubing, opposite from the heat source. Capillary action will draw the solder around the joint. A little solder goes a long way, so don't go nuts with the solder. To keep other joints in the area from coming apart, use some cross-lock tweezers on the adjoining parts to act as a heat sink. Or you could also use small pieces of tissue or paper towel wrapped around the nearby joints and wet them liberally with an eye dropper of water. This will keep the strong heat away from these joints and let it flow to the new solder joints you want to make. When finished, rinse the joint off with lots of soap and water to remove any flux residue or it will discolor over time and look like crap. Use a soldering gun or iron that will heat the tubing quickly, solder and then get it away from the tubing. Leaving the heat on it too long could damage the tubing or discolor it. Just take your time and have some patience, it will go together and soon you'll be an old pro at soldering! Have fun. Ray Edited October 16, 2011 by Ray Priester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein456 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Steinie, A GOOD hobby shop or hardware store will carry 'Sta-Brite' solder, which has a silver base. I used it a lot on some model locomotives I have built. It is a very strong solder and doesn't have the very high melting point of regular silver solder. Make sure that both surfaces to be soldered together are CLEAN. Use a fine emery cloth to shine both surfaces and be certain that all the old solder is removed. Sta-Brite comes with its own flux. Use it! Put the pieces together, apply flux and then heat. Apply the solder on the tubing, opposite from the heat source. Capillary action will draw the solder around the joint. A little solder goes a long way, so don't go nuts with the solder. To keep other joints in the area from coming apart, use some cross-lock tweezers on the adjoining parts to act as a heat sink. Or you could also use small pieces of tissue or paper towel wrapped around the nearby joints and wet them liberally with an eye dropper of water. This will keep the strong heat away from these joints and let it flow to the new solder joints you want to make. When finished, rinse the joint off with lots of soap and water to remove any flux residue or it will discolor over time and look like crap. Use a soldering gun or iron that will heat the tubing quickly, solder and then get it away from the tubing. Leaving the heat on it too long could damage the tubing or discolor it. Just take your time and have some patience, it will go together and soon you'll be an old pro at soldering! Have fun. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrassClef Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Silver soldering is just Nickel Silver. It's not super expensive - and should be done by a professional. It's better to just bring it to a reputable repair tech - then trying it yourself. It'll be more expensive if he or she needs to fix issues you created on top of the re-soldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein456 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ray you may see this twice. Thanks for that thorough responce, very much appreciated! Where do you purchase your Sta - brite solder please ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Priester Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Ray you may see this twice. Thanks for that thorough responce, very much appreciated! Where do you purchase your Sta - brite solder please ? I usually pick it up at train shows, but go to www.micromark.com. They carry it and it runs around $23. You can call them and order it and you should have it in a day or so since they are in NJ. I am assuming that you are talking about broken joints, not actual breaks in the tubing between joints, right? If the tubing is where the crack or break is, I would give some thought about taking it to a pro. Just go slow and easy so you don't wind up with a horn "kit". Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornsUp Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Stein, what you want to do is soft solder. Hard solder is used for things that aren't ever supposed to come apart. Like knuckles into the valve casings. Soft solder is used to join all the components that can later be taken apart. The melting point of soft solder is fairly low, but high enough to burn older nitrocellulose lacquers. Modern epoxy finishes will not burn. Solder will not adhere to a chromeplate surface, if the finish turns blue you have applied WAY too much heat. For starters, use the same stuff the plumber uses. A paste flux can't get you into too much trouble. Good ol' 50/50 will work, or just about any tin/lead alloy. Use probably the skinniest stuff you can find. DON"T use rosin core, that stuff is for electrical joints. Don't use a soldering iron or gun, but used judiciously a plain ol' propane torch works fine. A butane micro-torch is handy for delicate work, Once you have grasped the technique, you can try a more powerful liquid flux. This will have a Zinc Chloride base, STA-KLEEN is a popular brand. Use a needle oiler to apply just a few drops to the joint. But if this flux runs, it will really mess up silver plating. Now go back and read what Ray wrote about soldering technique. Solder will run TOWARD the heat. Your work must be clean and bright to get adhesion. Use emory strips or a fine file. Use soft iron binding wire to hold things together while soldering. Joints should not be under tension, make sure everything fits. And always remember, hot metal can look just like cold metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxxypane Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) The key to success of silver soldering is to observe the fundamental principles in the soldering process. You are brazing - seamless with a filler rod expensive. Basically, a welded joint depends on the strength of the filler and base metals. The strength of a brazed joint, if done correctly will be guided only by the force of original materials, whether copper, brass, bronze or steel. They will fail before the joint fails. Metal Stencils Edited April 3, 2012 by maxxypane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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