BRASSO Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) There's more movement than you'd think. BD is now only .5 behind Crown, and that's probably from the same show (?). I don't call however 1 Corps ( Crown this year ) battling it out with 2 of the 3 Cadevaliers for the title " more movement than you'd think ". I call it the same as its been the last 35 years. Every year, there is usually 1 or at most 2 Corps that is capable of displacing the Cadevaliers for the Title. Here we are less than half way thru the season and it seems pretty clear to me that there really are only 3 Corps out of the 20 some odd numbers of World Class Corps that have a real shot at the title. SCV, Phantom ? No, not really a chance. Their show designs won't permit it no matter how entertaining or cleaned it becomes, imo We don't see any sport that less than halfway tru the season, 90% of the other teams have no shot at all of winning it all that year. DCI is unique in this respect, imo. And its pretty much the same faces every year that are judging, and that are designing the shows for the top 2, 3 Corps. There are thousands of MM's changes each season. But the movements in placements are relatively non existent except for 2-3 Corps in any given year. 90% of the Corps rarely move up or down more than 3 placement positions. We have seemingly all resigned ourselves to this DCI Corps placement " traditions ". Why, I not so sure. Edited July 15, 2013 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I don't call however 1 Corps ( Crown this year ) battling it out with 2 of the 3 Cadevaliers for the title " more movement than you'd think ". I call it the same as its been the last 35 years. Every year, there is usually 1 or at most 2 Corps that is capable of displacing the Cadevaliers for the Title. Here we are less than half way thru the season and it seems pretty clear to me that there really are only 3 Corps out of the 20 some odd numbers of World Class Corps that have a real shot at the title. SCV, Phantom ? No, not really a chance. Their show designs won't permit it no matter how entertaining or cleaned it becomes, imo We don't see any sport that less than halfway tru the season, 90% of the other teams have no shot at all of winning it all that year. DCI is unique in this respect, imo. And its pretty much the same faces every year that are judging, and that are designing the shows for the top 2, 3 Corps. There are thousands of MM's changes each season. But the movements in placements are relatively non existent except for 2-3 Corps in any given year. 90% of the Corps rarely move up or down more than 3 placement positions. We have seemingly all resigned ourselves to this. Why, I not so sure. We're talking about two different things. The OP's question is regarding changes in position during the season. While you are right that it is generally the same few corps at the top, the question of which one will win is exciting to many, if not to you. Your term Cadevaliers is interesting since in fact the Cavaliers have no chance of winning. And Crown is the overwhelming favorite, and how often have they won? I agree with you that there are big problems, but those problems don't mean there is no excitement over scores and placements. There are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKT90 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 1373847142[/url]' post='3286359'] I don't call however 1 Corps ( Crown this year ) battling it out with 2 of the 3 Cadevaliers for the title " more movement than you'd think ". I call it the same as its been the last 35 years. Every year, there is usually 1 or at most 2 Corps that is capable of displacing the Cadevaliers for the Title. Here we are less than half way thru the season and it seems pretty clear to me that there really are only 3 Corps out of the 20 some odd numbers of World Class Corps that have a real shot at the title. SCV, Phantom ? No, not really a chance. Their show designs won't permit it no matter how entertaining or cleaned it becomes, imo We don't see any sport that less than halfway tru the season, 90% of the other teams have no shot at all of winning it all that year. DCI is unique in this respect, imo. And its pretty much the same faces every year that are judging, and that are designing the shows for the top 2, 3 Corps. There are thousands of MM's changes each season. But the movements in placements are relatively non existent except for 2-3 Corps in any given year. 90% of the Corps rarely move up or down more than 3 placement positions. We have seemingly all resigned ourselves to this DCI Corps placement " traditions ". Why, I not so sure. I agree. It's name recognition, Jordan doesn't get called for the foul but everyone else does...not sure how to fix it...except implement Fan Vote :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSUMusician Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 I don't call however 1 Corps ( Crown this year ) battling it out with 2 of the 3 Cadevaliers for the title " more movement than you'd think ". I call it the same as its been the last 35 years. Every year, there is usually 1 or at most 2 Corps that is capable of displacing the Cadevaliers for the Title. Here we are less than half way thru the season and it seems pretty clear to me that there really are only 3 Corps out of the 20 some odd numbers of World Class Corps that have a real shot at the title. SCV, Phantom ? No, not really a chance. Their show designs won't permit it no matter how entertaining or cleaned it becomes, imo We don't see any sport that less than halfway tru the season, 90% of the other teams have no shot at all of winning it all that year. DCI is unique in this respect, imo. And its pretty much the same faces every year that are judging, and that are designing the shows for the top 2, 3 Corps. There are thousands of MM's changes each season. But the movements in placements are relatively non existent except for 2-3 Corps in any given year. 90% of the Corps rarely move up or down more than 3 placement positions. We have seemingly all resigned ourselves to this DCI Corps placement " traditions ". Why, I not so sure. 41 Years only 8 World Champions! Two of those corps are now inactive! Finals Past 5 Years and Placements (Showing 2008-2012) Blue Devils - 2, 1, 1, 2, 1 Blue Knights - 9, 11, 11, 9, 10 Blue Stars - 8, 8, 8, 11, 0 Bluecoats - 6, 6, 3, 7, 6 Boston Crusaders - 10, 7, 9, 8, 7 Carolina Crown - 4, 2, 4, 4, 2, Crossmen - 0, 0, 0, 0, 12 Glassmen - 11, 10, 12, 0 Madison Scouts - 12, 0, 10, 10, 9 Phantom Regiment - 1, 9, 6, 5, 3 Santa Clara Vanguard - 7, 5, 7, 6, 5 Spirit of Atlanta - 0, 0, 0, 12, 11 The Cadets - 5, 3, 5, 1, 4 The Cavaliers - 3, 4, 2, 3, 8 Troopers - 0, 12, 0, 0, 0 Aside from Phantom there has been very little movement in placement. Well the downhill slide of The Cavaliers is very noticeable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 I agree. It's name recognition, Jordan doesn't get called for the foul but everyone else does...not sure how to fix it...except implement Fan Vote :) Different sports use different methods to shake up the mix. Drafts, for one thing. Now that would be interesting... You can't audition for a WC drum corps anymore, you can only enter the DCI draft. You submit your audition video, which is then viewed by all the corps. The last place corps gets first pick. Each member gets picked up to three times, and then auditions in person for those corps. The corps accepts or rejects, and the member selects from among those corps who accepted him/her. And suddenly all WC corps are on par. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSUMusician Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 We're talking about two different things. The OP's question is regarding changes in position during the season. While you are right that it is generally the same few corps at the top, the question of which one will win is exciting to many, if not to you. Your term Cadevaliers is interesting since in fact the Cavaliers have no chance of winning. And Crown is the overwhelming favorite, and how often have they won? I agree with you that there are big problems, but those problems don't mean there is no excitement over scores and placements. There are. If you look at the graphical representation of scores that the Blue Knights has out, there has been virtually NO PLACEMENT changes from what "slotting" was from the second show to the placement of last night's show. There haven't been many placement changes in regards to scoring since June 24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 41 Years only 8 World Champions! Two of those corps are now inactive! Finals Past 5 Years and Placements (Showing 2008-2012) ... Phantom Regiment - 1, 9, 6, 5, 3 ... The Cavaliers - 3, 4, 2, 3, 8 Aside from Phantom there has been very little movement in placement. Well the downhill slide of The Cavaliers is very noticeable. Yes, and it's clearly continuing this year as well. But it's interesting to see that Phantom endured an even bigger drop to an even lower position and came back. Still, the reason for the static nature of drum corps is that drum corps was much more local at one time, and now each corps has a well established reputation, and that determines the level of incoming talent. So it's self-perpetuating. I think today they are more like schools (summer schools) than sports teams. And while a team's fortunes may rise and fall dramatically year to year, a school's ranking won't change much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSUMusician Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 Yes, and it's clearly continuing this year as well. But it's interesting to see that Phantom endured an even bigger drop to an even lower position and came back. Still, the reason for the static nature of drum corps is that drum corps was much more local at one time, and now each corps has a well established reputation, and that determines the level of incoming talent. So it's self-perpetuating. I think today they are more like schools (summer schools) than sports teams. And while a team's fortunes may rise and fall dramatically year to year, a school's ranking won't change much. So if rankings are unlikely to change, then what's the point of the competition side of drum corp? I think that's where it goes into a personal experience thing. Most of the people I knew during drum corp didn't care about placement. It was 100% about the experience and the performance, but we knew we weren't going to win! So if there were no competition aspect to DCI would the same kids go out for The Cavaliers, Carolina Crown, Blue Devils, etc.? I guess it's the proverbial chicken or the egg arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Freedman Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 If you look at the graphical representation of scores that the Blue Knights has out, there has been virtually NO PLACEMENT changes from what "slotting" was from the second show to the placement of last night's show. There haven't been many placement changes in regards to scoring since June 24. Sure, but why would you expect dramatic changes, unless the judges are throwing dice. It's the same kids tonight in each corps as it was last night. They have basically the same skills. They practiced during the day, so hopefully they got slightly better. As they review the scores and caption scores each night they will see how their hard work is rewarded with a better score. That's a key reason for the large number of shows that hasn't been mentioned yet. Instant feedback for the kids. Also, keep in mind that there are certainly a lot of lines that cross on that chart, and while you can't compare different shows accurately, almost all of those shows have only a few corps present. So you wouldn't expect there to be much movement except in cases where two close corps happen to be touring together (BD and Crown, for example) To me that's a pretty exciting chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarimbaPlayer Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 (edited) Different sports use different methods to shake up the mix. Drafts, for one thing. Now that would be interesting... You can't audition for a WC drum corps anymore, you can only enter the DCI draft. You submit your audition video, which is then viewed by all the corps. The last place corps gets first pick. Each member gets picked up to three times, and then auditions in person for those corps. The corps accepts or rejects, and the member selects from among those corps who accepted him/her. And suddenly all WC corps are on par. What about people that audition based on location? Are they just S.O.L. if they are picked by three corps on the other side of the country? Edited July 15, 2013 by ThatOneMarimbaPlayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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