BRASSO Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) The Mandarins and the Oregon Crusaders head to head matchups have had incredible swings in both scores and placements within such a short period of time. I'm not sure if these swings are the result of performer performance variance between shows, or more a function of judge variance in their evaluations of the performances. its quite an unusual variance from show to show, and within only 24 hours in some cases within the 7-9 day time frame. For example : 7/16... Mandarins 68.825 over Oregon Crusaders 65.435......................... a difference of .400 7/23....Mandarins 70.825 over Oregon Crusaders 69.600.......................... a difference of 1.23 7/27......Oregon Crusaders75.900 over Mandarins 75.400................a swing difference of 1.73 7/29....Oregon Crusaders 76.400 over Mandarins75.950..............................a + difference of .950 7/30... Mandarins 75.850 over Oregon Crusaders73.900................. a swing difference of 2.35, 24 hrs. 8/1 ...Oregon Crusaders 76.700 over Mandarins 75.900...................a swing difference of 2.75, 48 hrs 8/2....Oregon Crusaders 77.150 over Mandarins 76.700...............................a + difference of 1.25. 8/4... Mandarins 80.700 over Oregon Crusaders 79.500.....................a swing difference of 1.65,48 hrs 8/6...Oregon Crusaders 78.113 over Mandarins 78.038......................a swing difference of 1.28, 24hrs in 9 head to head matchups, Mandarins have won 4, Oregon Crusaders 5. The point swings from show to show are quite unusual and remarkable in this approx 6-9 day frame ( 7/29- 8/6) above too, imo. Both Corps have seen their scores dip from show to shows, within 24 hours, in their head to head matchups too... even into August. Edited August 8, 2016 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Thank you Brasso for noticing this and posting it. There is no way that performance variance in either corps is this pronounced. Sure there are always mid-season holes, illness/injury issues and such but huge point swings from one night to the next? I don't buy it. IMO it exposes the subjectivity of individual judges, which shouldn't be a criteria for awarding points. I can read a book, not like it, but still appreciate the value it has as a literary piece. Edited August 8, 2016 by luv4corps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Another head to head match up tonight at Erie BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 8, 2016 Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 (edited) Thank you Brasso for noticing this and posting it. There is no way that performance variance in either corps is this pronounced. Sure there are always mid-season holes, illness/injury issues and such but huge point swings from one night to the next? I don't buy it. IMO it exposes the subjectivity of individual judges, which shouldn't be a criteria for awarding points. I can read a book, not like it, but still appreciate the value it has as a literary piece. Yes, I do believe... and have said this before... that judges really are making decisions now on what they " like " better, and not so much on what is " performed better "... as no such " performed better " can reasonably be expected to be ajudicated anymore, when there is now unprecedented disparity in the " weaponry " ( instrumentation ) of the competition that individual Corps are deciding to take into the competition with others. For just one quick example, the musical sounds of the 2016 Cadets in competition is now vastly different than that of 2016 SCV in competition, as the brass instrumentation utilized is not similar for much of the timed competition between the 2, in the least. Its just not. Curiously, we see no dip in scores in August from show to show with Corps at the top however. Their scores by August, almost without exception, go up from show to show in August. But Corps below the Elites at the top have their scores going all over the lot.. up and down, sideways, in a quite unusual and remarkable fashion and well into August too. (As fully documented here above with just one example of 2 Corps and their unexplainable volatility among the judges within just a 6-9 day timeframe, and well into August to boot ). Edited August 8, 2016 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaineers97 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Been sort of following this too. Part of the swing on 8/1 could be contributed to electronic issues on Mandarins part that night if remember correctly. I liked Mandarins on DCI live better but thought Oregon was better live in Atlanta. Total Crap shoot who finishes afead in Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Been sort of following this too. Part of the swing on 8/1 could be contributed to electronic issues on Mandarins part that night if remember correctly. I liked Mandarins on DCI live better but thought Oregon was better live in Atlanta. Total Crap shoot who finishes afead in Indy. And OC was absolutely HOSED by the judges in Atlanta - finished below both Mands and Spirit. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 The question is, what does a corps that wants to elevate its position do about this? Obviously both OC and Mandarins have upped their game this year, are serious about moving up and have show vehicles that can get it done. Beyond cleaning, fixing the bugs and improving weak parts of the show, crossing your fingers that a judge will like the show shouldn't be the only hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaineers97 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 One constant seems to be Mandarins ahead in visual while Oregon takes music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaineers97 Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 .... Beyond cleaning, fixing the bugs and improving weak parts of the show, crossing your fingers that a judge will like the show shouldn't be the only hope! Yep GE is the difference between them right now and that's the most subjectve/unpredictable caption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Curiously, we see no dip in scores in August from show to show with Corps at the top however. Their scores by August, almost without exception, go up from show to show in August. But Corps below the Elites at the top have their scores going all over the lot.. up and down, sideways, in a quite unusual and remarkable fashion and well into August too. (As fully documented here above with just one example of 2 Corps and their unexplainable volatility among the judges within just a 6-9 day timeframe, and well into August to boot ). Exactly. And no one picks on their unis either. OC has been picked on ENOUGH for their unis this year. Look at Bloo's! They are even more WGI than OC's yet they are DCI royalty and have an awesome show so it's OK. I guarantee if Oregon were one of the elites, the reaction to the uniform would be less harsh. Also, I wonder if it isn't the uniform that sways judges. I don't know, I'm just speculating. (This is just a fun aside: Mandarins and OC should trade trees. That would improve the look of both their shows.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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