1980 SCV

[byline]

I think 27th Lancers really started this trend, in terms of asymmetrical drill and/or rotating a form on its axis, and they set that standard in 1979, with all the rest of us following along after. There are many corps that had asymmetrical forms in 1980, including Crossmen in that great "Superman" portion of your show. But I believe that the reason Santa Clara merits this "first-ever" status is because they were the first corps to use asymmetrical drill so extensively throughout their show, from beginning to end. Two-Seven took mostly symmetrical forms and rotated them on their axis (which I used to confuse with asymmetry). And, as I recall, they did have a few asymmetrical forms in their '79 and '80 drill, but not nearly to the extent that Santa Clara did in '80.

I'm always intrigued by these "first-ever" claims and how they're established. For example, Santa Clara is credited with another "first": the first-ever use of dance in a drum corps show, thanks to the "Bottle Dance." And yet, watching the "Brass Roots" video, with all those marvelous excerpts of DCI championship shows through the years, I see that in 1972, Anaheim Kingsmen's guard does a little fancy footwork of their own; looks to me like a jig. (Hard to tell with the grainy black and white footage, but that's my best guess.) Last time I checked, the jig was considered a style of dance. So how is it that Santa Clara is credited a year or two later with "first-ever" honors? Is it because they took a specific piece of choreography and featured it in their show, as opposed to replacing marching with dance footwork?

Edited September 8, 2004 by byline

[Lancerlady]

Wow, I didn't know that. It doesn't surprise me cause Ralph Pace left in 78 and then Zingali was created! :) But he did mostly color guard from my understanding, however a new wonderful innovator was created. And one who marched that 79 show was born as well ,Sylvester! :)

[byline]

As I recall, Zingali's tremendous innovation with Two-Seven in '79 involved removing the 50-yard line as the standard center point of drill. Most of his forms were symmetrical (meaning that they were mirror images from side to side), but at various points throughout the show, the center of the form was somewhere other than the 50. And then, to dazzle us even more, he rotated some of these forms. That got the ball rolling, in terms of redefining where drill could go. It was all pretty amazing stuff, especially given how superbly Two-Seven marched those groundbreaking drills.

Of course, as has been pointed out to me, Zingali's drill design in those years was not so vastly different from how corps used to move off the starting line. I didn't march back then, but didn't corps start on the Side 1 goal line and finish on the Side 2 end zone? Seems to me he just took those basic ideas and refined them, turning them into his own signature drill moves.

Edited September 8, 2004 by byline

[LancerFi]

M. Sylvester graduated from the 27th Lancers in 1978. You can see him quite clearly doing a solo and dancing during his last finals in 1978.

His first year teaching M & M was 1979.

Also, if you saw our saber line in 1994, you will see the jigs and dances done in 71, 72 & 73 during concert in 94....

Anaheims was done during their OTL, the one we would eventually play in 1979, with the corp all on the #1 side of the field during Folk Song Suite.

Edited September 8, 2004 by LancerFi

[Lancerlady]

He also wrote our drill in 1985...Marc Sylvester, that is. George Zingali taught and wrote our drill in 1986. It is something, if you've never seen it. Marc taught from 1979-1981, he told me at finals this year. I didn't know he was a mellophone player! :) My husband was looking at vigenettes on DCI DVD Legacy 1991 and saw Marc with hair! He then put two and two together and remembered Marc from 1978 being the one dancing in "Celebrate", doing the mellophone solo. (Busted) :P

I then emailed him and he said, "I knew my past would come back to haunt me"...meaning the dance! :) He told me when he marched and when he taught. He also taught in 1985 or I should say, wrote our drill as well.

Edited September 8, 2004 by Lancerlady

[LancerFi]

Of course, as has been pointed out to me, Zingali's drill design in those years was not so vastly different from how corps used to move off the starting line. I didn't march back then, but didn't corps start on the Side 1 goal line and finish on the Side 2 end zone? Seems to me he just took those basic ideas and refined them, turning them into his own signature drill moves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sue, I'm not sure if you've seen where we began in 1979 and 80 but it was facing the stands. The moves from one side of the field or the other were done after marching forward. We all then marched and eventually ended up on one side to move the form facing the stands. Zingali was told it couldn't be done, or couldn't be done in a certain amount of counts, and he did prove them wrong. I like 80 better because he completely closed the form with contrabasses, tympanies, etc. The rifles and some flags were in line with the horns, bringing them across, as they were playing, so we had our hand on their shoulder and guided them to where they were supposed to be and end up.

I didn't want you to think that we began in the corner those years. However we did do a corner type beginning in 75 & 76 doing Ralph Paces' drill. But both still very different IMO to what SCV did in 1980!

I also believe it was Fred Sanford on the Brass Roots tape that is credited for taking drum lines out of straight lines - I believe they said he put SCV in a curly Q as they put it. I'm not sure what the year was that they are talking about.

Zingali also liked to have the drum line in a circle, or diamond, or something different any chance he got, but I believe what Fred did with SCV was stop the elevator up and down on the 50.

Another drill that had us all one the #2 side except for a few people was Danny Boy, however that was from the early 70s. Still not even close to the difference that SCV and Crossmen made with their 80 drill I guess.

[byline]

I also believe it was Fred Sanford on the Brass Roots tape that is credited for taking drum lines out of straight lines - I believe they said he put SCV in a curly Q as they put it.  I'm not sure what the year was that they are talking about.

I don't think it was Fred; I think it was Pete Emmons. As I recall the "Brass Roots" conversation, Fred wrote the music to that unbelievable drum feature, "Stone Ground Seven" . . . and then, as Fred recalled, the drum line freaked when they had to march Pete's wild drill to it. That was in 1980. But I could be remembering that wrong. . . .

Also, I knew that you guys didn't literally march a strict "enter the field on Side 1, exit the field on Side 2"-type drill. I marched those years, and have watched the telecast videos and DVDs probably hundreds of times. What I meant was that Zingali took those basic ideas and then modified and expanded them, creating a whole new art form. For example, consider his rotating forms. That was a new way of creating field movement predominantly on one side of the field. Which, while not a carbon copy, is reminiscent of the way in which corps used to enter and exit the field. That's what I was trying to say, but I probably didn't explain myself very well.

Edited September 9, 2004 by byline

[LancerFi]

I also believe it was Fred Sanford on the Brass Roots tape that is credited for taking drum lines out of straight lines - I believe they said he put SCV in a curly Q as they put it.  I'm not sure what the year was that they are talking about.

Also, I knew that you guys didn't literally march a strict "enter the field on Side 1, exit the field on Side 2"-type drill. I marched those years, and have watched the telecast videos and DVDs probably hundreds of times. What I meant was that Zingali took those basic ideas and then modified and expanded them, creating a whole new art form. For example, consider his rotating forms. That was a new way of creating field movement predominantly on one side of the field. Which, while not a carbon copy, is reminiscent of the way in which corps used to enter and exit the field. That's what I was trying to say, but I probably didn't explain myself very well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, I'm still not following what you're saying as far as where we began and ended. Not a carbon copy - and not even close to the way corps used to enter and exit....I don't think he expanded on entering and exiting in a different way.

If we went to one side of the field, it had nothing to do with entering or exiting. And I don't believe he was modifying on that concept nor did I think it was reminiscent of how it was done. I don't believe that is what he was going for.

However:

As long as you know what you mean, that's cool! Everyone gets a different idea of what an artists is going for.

Edited September 9, 2004 by LancerFi

[byline]

If we went to one side of the field, it had nothing to do with entering or exiting.  And I don't believe he was modifying on that concept nor did I think it was reminiscent of how it was done.  I don't believe that is what he was going for.

I'm not talking about entering or exiting the field, I'm talking about using one side of the field for drill at any point in the show, as opposed to using the entire field. That was the innovation Zingali brought to drill design, but that precedent had actually been established before, in the way corps entered and exited the field. Back then, they too only used one side of the field for that purpose, but it was restricted to entering and leaving the field. Zingali expanded this concept so that corps could use it at any point in the show, for creative reasons, not strictly for the mechanical purpose of getting on and off the field.

Does that makes sense now?

[boston1977]

Of course, as has been pointed out to me, Zingali's drill design in those years was not so vastly different from how corps used to move off the starting line. I didn't march back then, but didn't corps start on the Side 1 goal line and finish on the Side 2 end zone? Seems to me he just took those basic ideas and refined them, turning them into his own signature drill moves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sue, I'm not sure if you've seen where we began in 1979 and 80 but it was facing the stands. The moves from one side of the field or the other were done after marching forward. We all then marched and eventually ended up on one side to move the form facing the stands. Zingali was told it couldn't be done, or couldn't be done in a certain amount of counts, and he did prove them wrong. I like 80 better because he completely closed the form with contrabasses, tympanies, etc. The rifles and some flags were in line with the horns, bringing them across, as they were playing, so we had our hand on their shoulder and guided them to where they were supposed to be and end up.

I didn't want you to think that we began in the corner those years. However we did do a corner type beginning in 75 & 76 doing Ralph Paces' drill. But both still very different IMO to what SCV did in 1980!

I also believe it was Fred Sanford on the Brass Roots tape that is credited for taking drum lines out of straight lines - I believe they said he put SCV in a curly Q as they put it. I'm not sure what the year was that they are talking about.

Zingali also liked to have the drum line in a circle, or diamond, or something different any chance he got, but I believe what Fred did with SCV was stop the elevator up and down on the 50.

Another drill that had us all one the #2 side except for a few people was Danny Boy, however that was from the early 70s. Still not even close to the difference that SCV and Crossmen made with their 80 drill I guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Crossmen Planet drill was a gas!!!

the visual and musical coordination with the expanding and contracting sop line

moving across the fifty felt as if you were in outer space ...sop, mid, bari, and DL

all as planets in contrary motion connected and pulled by the flag line