xmenjeffb Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 Come on people ! Lets talk about this for a second or 3 . Do you know the background of umpires , officals or olympic judges ?? Have you read an officlals book to understand every call that is made . Even the strike zone , as cleary as it is defined , is not called the same from umpire to umpire. You have to be in the shoes at the moment to see what they saw and how they saw it . What makes our activity any different ?? It is the Instructors and designers jobs to know the criteria , the judge and the background of the judges. The same way it is for a manger to know the way officals call a game. When i first started judging i thought it was easy . How hard could this be ?? Until you see a show thru a tape recorder and a certain caption. Do you really watch the show and say well let me just focus on the visual effect tonight ?? Or I will stand on the track and follow just the field brass judge and hear what they hear !! Isolating a show on a caption is different than how a fan views a show.As a Fan i might be drawn to all captions a various stages of the show depending on how well they were performed. WOw that was a cool visual effect or oh my god the brass line blew that attack !! A long time ago there was olympic style judging where there were 5 judges talking about anything and everything write a number out of 100 . Then throw out the high and the low numbers and average the 3 middle ones . There is a reason that is not used anymore in corps or bands. Instructors and Judges wanted caption judging.The thought being we had a chance to score better if we had more captions that reconized strengths and we could improve more if the comments were more stream lined to a certain caption . We wanted Music people talking about music and visual people talking about visual !! Plain and simple we wanted more judges with less points so spreads would be closer . What ever the system or the sheet it is the teachers that have to know the criteria not the people who watch.Do you really think you would know more if you have never judged ?? The criteria is a guideline . Each judge brings the experince they have to the show on that night and use the criteria to guide them to a final number based on the knowledge they have learned over years. I think i have been in every type of critique there is and most have been positive dialogue. A few have been pointless and a smaller few have been outrage and anger . Most of the anger outburst were passion based . A heat of the moment reaction and when i have done that i have regretted all but 2 in over 20 years. Those 2 I still feel i was in the right to react as i need on behalf of the performing unit and staff.And even with that only one did i think my reaction got the notice it deserved . Judges are human and react honestly to what they saw and heard . One example... I was judging field visual at a band show i was on side 2 in the back and was watching a section behind me when a huge collison happened on side 1 front . I never saw it . By the time i worked my way around it was recovered . I had them in 1st place . The upstairs judges did not because they did see it and reacted as they should have . It was after the show i discovered what happened but the bottom line was i didnt see it . You see or hear what you see and hear as it relates to your caption. Knowing the sheets would be basicly useless unless you know how to apply the knowledge of judging to that sheet .I am a visual person with music background. Could i judge field music ?? Yes . Could i judge with the knowledge of someone that had been doing it for a long time ?/ No WAY !! Wanna know the sheets buy a rulebook ?? Wanna know how to use them you got to judge and train and build experince or they might as well be blank sheets of notebook paper !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Come on people ! Lets talk about this for a second or 3 . I'm not sure why you're coming across as angry here, Jeff... I simply don't see the harm in putting the sheets out there. You mentioned baseball...I can find the baseball rule book online if I wish. I can't find the DCI rulebook, however. No one would be harmed by the showing of the sheets to anyone interested in seeing them. This isn't the missile defense plans here, or a copy of the Microsoft Windows source...it's freaking DCI criteria sheets... I just don't see the big deal with the fans who want to see them seeing them, and I don't see why you are angry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmenjeffb Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I'm not sure why you're coming across as angry here, Jeff...I simply don't see the harm in putting the sheets out there. You mentioned baseball...I can find the baseball rule book online if I wish. I can't find the DCI rulebook, however. No one would be harmed by the showing of the sheets to anyone interested in seeing them. This isn't the missile defense plans here, or a copy of the Microsoft Windows source...it's freaking DCI criteria sheets... I just don't see the big deal with the fans who want to see them seeing them, and I don't see why you are angry about it. Not angry at all . Just stating facts . I have no issue with people having them but i do take issue with people acting like there is something being hidden from them. Maybe my passion gets in the way yet again . My point is go past knowing and lets talk about the knowledge and use of any criteria . Maybe because i know the criteria and never had an issue getting them when i needed them . Contact your fave corps and ask for a copy . email DCI and see if they will sale you a rule book and judges manual . Just simply addressing some that act like they would know more about what judge was right or wrong if they had them . Not angry at your suggestion at all . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xmenjeffb Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 I actuall think and have for a while that DCI should produce DVD's on judging for people to buy . Future judges , fans and instructors alike may have an interest . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tsar Posted August 13, 2006 Author Share Posted August 13, 2006 Not angry at all . Just stating facts . I have no issue with people having them but i do take issue with people acting like there is something being hidden from them. Maybe my passion gets in the way yet again . My point is go past knowing and lets talk about the knowledge and use of any criteria . Maybe because i know the criteria and never had an issue getting them when i needed them . Contact your fave corps and ask for a copy . email DCI and see if they will sale you a rule book and judges manual . Just simply addressing some that act like they would know more about what judge was right or wrong if they had them . Not angry at your suggestion at all . Oh, ok. I dig it... But you know how people are....these are the same sort of people who know the rules in football, but still think that they can call holding just because they see it on instant replay slo-mo...not realising that the ref has to make that decision in real time, and in a split second. I don't think I would be able to do better than a judge, but I do want to know what the criteria are, especially for GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X DM Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 (edited) This is not a good idea. Some people are nuts and would take their anger/frustration out on that particular judge they had a beef with.If I were a DCI judge, I would like as little "contact" with the drum corps public as possible. It was not that long ago, when the drum corps judges stood in front of the entire audience on the fifty yard line before the competition began. The announcer then announced the judges name and where he lived. It was not unusual for the announcer to say some brief things to the audience about a judge or two's background too. The judge then stepped forth, tipped his or her cap to the audience, then proceeded to take up their positions to judge the competition. This was common practice for well over 30 years. Never had a problem with the " nuts " in the audience from this. What's changed ? And more importantly.... why ?......As for allowing the public to know a little bit about the judging format, I can't possibly see how anyone would not think this would not be a good idea. So, I'm in agreement with the originator of this tread. When is education of the public a bad thing ? The fact that some who are against this are themselves involved in the education field is pretty ironic. Edited August 13, 2006 by X DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudFuel Posted August 14, 2006 Share Posted August 14, 2006 "Even if the sheets were posted, what qualifies you to call them out? It's all a matter of one persons opinion even if he has guidelines to follow. Only absoulutes came from ticks." WOAH, WOAH, WOAH! I'm not saying that I would call them out, I just want to see what the criteria is so that when the Cavaliers lose Visual GE & PR loses Music GE I can understand why.. because as of right now.. I just CANNOT understand why! Plus I see that as a more realistic approach to handling the "onslaught" of conspiracy theorists than say allowing online viewings of the critiques, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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