NBWalrus Posted October 1, 2006 Share Posted October 1, 2006 Excellent....thank you Kurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Dog Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Wow... just wow... some of the most ignorant comments I have heard in some time. From my perspective, I almost think of the exact opposite. You have to realize that the Cascades have been having 'issues' the last few years. Whether it be the corps director situation, the financial situation, ETC.... there have been things going on there. I believe that Mike and Lewis decided to "Take Over" as you put it in order to help the Cascades.The foundation for the Oregon Crusaders has been set somewhat, and they are moving to the Cascades because they know they can get a handle on things and help the organization grow instead of continuing to fall. Please don't make such outrageous statements about this issue... There are a lot more things in the last couple of years that have been leading to this. I support both groups and hope that both can be prosperous moving forward. ~Jon Supnick - 02-03 Cascades - 04 Blue Devils - 06 Oregon Crusaders Called ignorant, WOW. Its is amazing how some marching members know so little and have such a strong opinion. It seems to me that everyone that has something positive to say about this "take over" have roots in both organizations, as I see you do. What about people that only have an OC background and could care less about the Seattle Cascades? I again say Leone/Norfleet to Seattle fine, but Seattle is 3 hours north of where they are having camps, etc. Lets put the Seattle back in the Cascades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Called ignorant, WOW. Its is amazing how some marching members know so little andhave such a strong opinion. It seems to me that everyone that has something positive to say about this "take over" have roots in both organizations, as I see you do. What about people that only have an OC background and could care less about the Seattle Cascades? I again say Leone/Norfleet to Seattle fine, but Seattle is 3 hours north of where they are having camps, etc. Lets put the Seattle back in the Cascades. The Cascades start in California with Mt. Lassen, and work their way up through a small part of British Columbia. The Seattle Cascades, are still in the Cascade range--infact, from the location they are holding camps, you can see Mt. St. Helens and possibly Mt. Hood and or Mt. Rainier on a nice day. They can move anywhere along I-5 if they want to, and they will still be called Seattle Cascades. Sorry for that tid-bit, but I am a big geology buff, and needed to make the comment above... Anywho What about the members who have only had a Seattle Cascade background? Like Kurt Jull said, this works both ways. I would hate to see it as "Only having a specific corps background, and not caring about another organization"--There are a lot of Cascades who have never marched Crusaders, who are just as concerned about the Oregon Crusaders. You don't have access to some of the private Cascades forums, so for you to state some of what you are doing, is compeletly wrong--those members DO care, which is why they feel the way they do right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlade00 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Called ignorant, WOW. Its is amazing how some marching members know so little andhave such a strong opinion. It seems to me that everyone that has something positive to say about this "take over" have roots in both organizations, as I see you do. What about people that only have an OC background and could care less about the Seattle Cascades? I again say Leone/Norfleet to Seattle fine, but Seattle is 3 hours north of where they are having camps, etc. Lets put the Seattle back in the Cascades. Saying that I know little about the situation is just comical. What exactly justifies you to make such comments about either organization? Seems to me like you are taking favor to Oregon Crusaders... and that's fine. There's more to the situation than YOU may know about things Lewis tried to do to make everyone happy. And if there are OC members that don't care about the Seattle Cascades... I say let em rot because if they would just sit back and let an organization like the cascades just fold, they don't deserve to march PERIOD. Drum Corps isn't just about little things like this, it's the fact that there IS a place to march in the first place. I firmly believe that if these changes weren't taking place (Mike and Lewis specifically) then there probably wouldn't be a 2007 Cascades. As far as the staff changes and what not... I agree that some of it may be a bit drastic. I especially feel for them because I have known a number of them for years. That's not to say that they are completely cut off from the organization permanently. But a staff that knows each other/ gets along is VERY important... and cutting corners will make things easier on the 2007 season by bringing in people who Lewis KNOWS will be on the same page. I am sure that soon enough they will bring back staff and what not when they feel things are stable again... that is if they want to come back in the first place. Overall I know this is a messy situation. There are many upset people on both ends of the spectrum, but it comes down to the fact that this is the direction they chose to go in... so you can either except it, or not. Don't make the situation worse by stirring up the pot and discouraging possible members from trying out for either corps. It doesn't help anything. Especially from people who know little or no information about it, and are basing statements off of hearsay. I truly wish I could just snap my fingers and make everyone happy... but I can't, no one can. So just sit back and let the things that are going to happen... happen. We'll live through it. ~Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiBoyinLA Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I'm curious about what happened to Cascades' bingo. Can someone with knowledge elaborate? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBlade00 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I'm curious about what happened to Cascades' bingo. Can someone with knowledge elaborate? Thanks. They decided to shut it down because they were losing revenue to a bigger casino/ bingo chain (can't think of the name right now) There were plans in the making to make more income... but not sure what is going to happen now w/ this whole change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oc1 Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share Posted October 3, 2006 They decided to shut it down because they were losing revenue to a bigger casino/ bingo chain (can't think of the name right now)There were plans in the making to make more income... but not sure what is going to happen now w/ this whole change. Smoking Ban also killed bingo. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Dog Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 The Cascades start in California with Mt. Lassen, and work their way up through a small part of British Columbia. The Seattle Cascades, are still in the Cascade range--infact, from the location they are holding camps, you can see Mt. St. Helens and possibly Mt. Hood and or Mt. Rainier on a nice day. They can move anywhere along I-5 if they want to, and they will still be called Seattle Cascades. Sorry for that tid-bit, but I am a big geology buff, and needed to make the comment above... AnywhoWhat about the members who have only had a Seattle Cascade background? Like Kurt Jull said, this works both ways. I would hate to see it as "Only having a specific corps background, and not caring about another organization"--There are a lot of Cascades who have never marched Crusaders, who are just as concerned about the Oregon Crusaders. You don't have access to some of the private Cascades forums, so for you to state some of what you are doing, is compeletly wrong--those members DO care, which is why they feel the way they do right now. Gee thanks for the geology lesson. Ultimately the question is why can't the Cascades stay in Seattle? Why must they Camp, etc., in the Portland/Vancouver area? Again I am sure you are right that not every Seattle Cascade member past or present is happy. My statement is this, both could survive if they "geographically" stayed true to there areas. This very fact makes this unhappy scenerio a political, geological, geographic and very personal fiasco. And finally while I consider a lot of what is said by even some people with exact different viewpoints as mine, heartfelt and true from their standpoint. When it comes to the Seattle Cascades BOD, it takes 2 to tango and they are dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Gee thanks for the geology lesson. Ultimately the question is why can'tthe Cascades stay in Seattle? Why must they Camp, etc., in the Portland/Vancouver area? Again I am sure you are right that not every Seattle Cascade member past or present is happy. My statement is this, both could survive if they "geographically" stayed true to there areas. This very fact makes this unhappy scenerio a political, geological, geographic and very personal fiasco. And finally while I consider a lot of what is said by even some people with exact different viewpoints as mine, heartfelt and true from their standpoint. When it comes to the Seattle Cascades BOD, it takes 2 to tango and they are dancing. But corps have been holding audition camps in other regions for quite a while now. Many corps are now going out of their region for membership--this should be no different for Oregon Crusaders or Seattle Cascades. I'm not saying it makes it right or wrong, but generally if there is staff located in a given region, that staff is going to want to recruit from that region, especially if there is talent and free things such as housing and volunteer support. Two seasons ago, the Cascades held audition camps in Spokane, and I think there was an audition camp in Pasco, so this is nothing new for the organization. The only thing that has changed as far as camps go, is the monthly rehearsal camps. I think the staff change will be more of something that will attract members, more so than the location. A lot of Cascades (50% or close to) from the Vancouver/Portland area still chose to march Seattle Cascades, even with Oregon Crusaders in their backyard. So regardless of where camps are held, people are going to go to a corps of their choice. Now that people have an option, we will see what happens. Will members of Oregon Crusaders join Cascades because it is a Division I corps, and right in their backyard? Who knows... Would you be having this same argument if Seattle Cascades stayed in Seattle, and still had Mike Leone and Lewis Norfleet (and company)? Afterall, Cascades would still be in Seattle. These members have always had options though, and we can not forget that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Dog Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 But corps have been holding audition camps in other regions for quite a while now. Many corps are now going out of their region for membership--this should be no different for Oregon Crusaders or Seattle Cascades. I'm not saying it makes it right or wrong, but generally if there is staff located in a given region, that staff is going to want to recruit from that region, especially if there is talent and free things such as housing and volunteer support. Two seasons ago, the Cascades held audition camps in Spokane, and I think there was an audition camp in Pasco, so this is nothing new for the organization. The only thing that has changed as far as camps go, is the monthly rehearsal camps. I think the staff change will be more of something that will attract members, more so than the location.A lot of Cascades (50% or close to) from the Vancouver/Portland area still chose to march Seattle Cascades, even with Oregon Crusaders in their backyard. So regardless of where camps are held, people are going to go to a corps of their choice. Now that people have an option, we will see what happens. Will members of Oregon Crusaders join Cascades because it is a Division I corps, and right in their backyard? Who knows... Would you be having this same argument if Seattle Cascades stayed in Seattle, and still had Mike Leone and Lewis Norfleet (and company)? Afterall, Cascades would still be in Seattle. These members have always had options though, and we can not forget that. Audition Camps fine, but all of them? Of course some of the "Seattle" Cascades are from the Portland area. They were quite successful before OC existed in the area and the Vets have allegiance to their Corps. Just one question, after 2001 when "Seattle" was turning on the power for its finals year push, how would they feel if a Division I Corps moved to Seattle and used their Camp facility, Staff, etc.? I will let this go just because disagreeing for the sake of argument is silly when the proof is in the future. Here however are some predictions. OC if they field this next season will be Division III. The Seattle Cascades will "skyrocket" back to between 13th - 16th place. Is it worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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