Idea to boost Div II/III

[saraqsfan]

This analogy doesn't work for the simple fact that D2/3 corps CHOOSE to compete in their respective divisions. Is there a trade off? Yes there is, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. You take the good with the bad.

And once again, playing the blame game with DCI is not going to solve the problem. Take it up with the directors of the D2/3 corps and they will tell you what they do is for the long term survival of their corps.

I am not placing the blame squarely with DCI, but they must shoulder some of the responsibility. What we do IS for the long term servival of our organizations, but it gets harder and harder each year to do this because the priority is not on doing what's best for ALL; it's focused on what's best for SOME.

DCI doesn't legislate how much money corps must spend to be competitive. They don't tell us how to program our shows, or who to hire for staff. Those who spend money foolishly have only themselves to blame when their organizations cease to exist. On the flip side, there seems to be fewer and fewer "paid" shows for II/III corps to compete in each year. It doesn't cost any less for our corps to fuel their busses and/or trucks.. and in some cases, it probably costs MORE if not every seat on our bus is occupied by a dues paying member. After the association fees are paid, and the show entrance fees, and the fuel bills, and the huge fees for championship week housing, AND food costs, it's usuallly a break even deal if most of us are lucky.

If everyone would just work toward the creation of MORE corps, and by this I mean that those who HAVE should be willing to help those who may NEED, we would have a bigger and better activity. There are things that the Division I corps HAVE/NEED that many II/III corps don't need. I am willing to bet that most II/III corps (and the activity as a whole) would benefit from some type of mentoring system between the divisions. This is a two way street. I am not standing here with my hand out.. we all have skills that could be used to make this a better activity.

If you really want to know what goes on in the division II/III ranks of today, I encourage you to volunteer with a II/III corps that is touring in '07. Lots of good things happen here. I guarantee, you'll learn a lot of things that you never knew before, and you will have a entirely new appreciation for drum and bugle corps as a whole.

Yes, I realize the number of division I corps that came up through our ranks. But there are a many other potential Blue Stars, Esperanzas, Mandarins, etc. who just need a little more help to cross the bridge. The current system makes that crossing difficult if not nearly impossible. And for those who really WANT to stay under 75 members, their days are numbered. In Wisconsin alone, there used to be a plethora of corps from Kenosha to the north end of Milwaukee. Where did they go? Doesn't it make you sad that there isn't a single junior corps from New York State in existence? Good grief, there used to be well over twenty junior corps along the I-90 corridor alone.

Yes, time marches on.. but those who refuse to learn from the past are often doomed to repeat it.

[xanhae]

Okay.. so what would YOU call it? Every year it's one more thing that makes it harder and harder to operate at the II/III level.. Let's see here.. we used to be able to continue on through the championship week and elevate some of our corps into the Top 25... then that got taken away. Next off.. let's see.. the elimination of our corps from the televised broadcast. For pete's sake, what would it hurt to at least mention the freaking champions? We won't even go into all of the "reasons" for putting the II/III championships in a seperate stadium, pitted against either Friday night semi finals, or worse yet on a Saturday morning.

I would like to see just ONE of the Division I corps deal with the staff that II/III has to deal with on a regular basis. How about PAYING to be in shows? How about doing an entire tour for far less than $1000.00 per performance? When was the last time the Cavaliers or the Blue Devils did a championship prelim show at 8:30 [/b]? Where have all the division II and III corps gone? What happened to the Patriots, the Railmen, Delta Brigade, Court of Honor, the Americanos, Academy Musical, and East Coast Jazz , to name a few? For awhile there, the smaller corps were dropping like flies. And now the latest insult is the new plan that was voted in, dealing with kids moving from one corps to another.. there used to be a cut off date in early March. Not any more. Kids can move (or be recruited) right up to the day before their first official DCI contest. The reasoning behind this? I can only imagine. If we had any level of respect for the smaller corps and what they acheive, this ruling would have never come to pass. This IS a threat to anything with less than 130 kids, and it WILL cause more corps to fall by the wayside. The saddest part of all is that nobody seems to mind. Before everyone climbs on their soapbox and says that if the II/III corps were run properly they wouldn't have to worry about losing members, let me remind you that it won't stop with us.. Corps 13 and beyond will also feel the effects of this.

Stuff like this makes it too hard to function in an already difficult landscape. One by one, the smaller corps get wiped out. Systematic? Perhaps.. Intentional??? New world order? ... Is it necessary to get rid of everything that marches fewer than 100 students? Not on your life.

again, I never disagreed with what you were stating. I only had to take a stand and say that what is happening to Div2/Div3 Corps is completely irrelevant to genocide.

I know how frustrating it can be to see such a pathetically dramatic dropoff in attention and media from Div1 to Div2/Div3. I never disagreed with you. In fact, I support your points, but genocide isn't the right word.

I didn't mean to upset you. Relax :)

[xanhae]

And now the latest insult is the new plan that was voted in, dealing with kids moving from one corps to another.. there used to be a cut off date in early March. Not any more. Kids can move (or be recruited) right up to the day before their first official DCI contest. The reasoning behind this? I can only imagine. If we had any level of respect for the smaller corps and what they acheive, this ruling would have never come to pass. This IS a threat to anything with less than 130 kids, and it WILL cause more corps to fall by the wayside.

I forgot to address this,

I know there are corps in Div2/Div3 that (when you sign a contract) one of the stipulations is one has the ability to drop the corps or change corps until March..

Or maybe I'm not understanding. When did this rule come into effect?

[saraqsfan]

I forgot to address this,

I know there are corps in Div2/Div3 that (when you sign a contract) one of the stipulations is one has the ability to drop the corps or change corps until March..

Or maybe I'm not understanding. When did this rule come into effect?

That rule is no longer in effect. (January DCI mtg in Atlanta) While it is still up to the corps director to keep a good paper trail on each member who comes in the door, the members are no longer held to that March deadline. They can now come and go (or be recruited) right up until the day prior to the corps' first show. Meaning: Suzy joins corps A in January. The director has her fill out all the necessary paperwork and Suzy is an offical member of corps A. Sometime in May, she gets an itch to march with Corps B, or finds out about somehow about a vacancy in corps B. There is now no "rule" to prohibit her from joining corps B, although depending on the paperwork that she signed with corps A, she might have to honor some financial committments. Suzy is a "free agent" right up to the day before corps' A's first contest.

For corps in division III, this could have disasterous effects. If you go below the 30 member minimum, through no fault of your own, you're basically screwed. Most of the division I corps did not see this as a problem. <**>

[EKBari]

I am not placing the blame squarely with DCI, but they must shoulder some of the responsibility. What we do IS for the long term servival of our organizations, but it gets harder and harder each year to do this because the priority is not on doing what's best for ALL; it's focused on what's best for SOME.

And that's the crux of the whole argument.

People make the mistake of thinking DCI represents the whole of the junior corps activity when it doesn't. It is a CIRCUIT whose job is to protect and promote the interests of it's MEMBERS. It's the same ideal that prompted them to create DCI in the first place when they felt stifled by the VFW and American Legion. They designed a playground in which they could take drum corps in the direction they felt it should be going in.

[WWonka]

But FYI (according to merriam-webster's definition)

geno·cide ( 'je-n&-"sId ) - : the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

Read your own definition before you say it's not. I'd say it's pretty close to that exact definition. Intent may not be there but it is systematic.

[WWonka]

This analogy doesn't work for the simple fact that D2/3 corps CHOOSE to compete in their respective divisions. Is there a trade off? Yes there is, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. You take the good with the bad.

And once again, playing the blame game with DCI is not going to solve the problem. Take it up with the directors of the D2/3 corps and they will tell you what they do is for the long term survival of their corps.

OK they "CHOOSE" to be in that division. Enlighten me to what the other choices are. You can:

A. Apply for Div I status and either be turned down or make it and go bankrupt trying do it. (My corps did that.)

B. March in Div II/III

C. Fold

Hmmm not much choice is there?

Edited February 16, 2007 by WWonka

[WWonka]

You're ignoring the fact that the Blue Stars, Mandarins, Pioneer, Esperanza and now Academy have gone through this within the past few years and decided to go D1. Plus, add to the list, the Cascades and Crown to the list of corps that came up through D 2/3.

And how many more folded in the last 20 years trying to pull that off?

And has that resulted in a net gain or have they just replaced those that fell by the wayside?

Edited February 16, 2007 by WWonka

[WWonka]

And that's the crux of the whole argument.

People make the mistake of thinking DCI represents the whole of the junior corps activity when it doesn't. It is a CIRCUIT whose job is to protect and promote the interests of it's MEMBERS. It's the same ideal that prompted them to create DCI in the first place when they felt stifled by the VFW and American Legion. They designed a playground in which they could take drum corps in the direction they felt it should be going in.

Sorry I just realized I went on a postfest replying to all yours. :P

You were in EK about the same time I marched so I know you know where everyone is coming from. And what you said above is correct. But I would hope there would be some sense of community and a need to give back to the activity as a whole and nurture it.

But as I read somewhere else there some Top 12 just trying to stay afloat themselves so maybe there are not the resources.

I saw a guide that DCUK puts out on "So you want to start a Drum Corps" that was cool. Telling folks what all was involved and what to expect. I just wish DCI did more stuff like that. But like you said DCI is itself not a real entity. It is the member corps.

[xanhae]

Read your own definition before you say it's not. I'd say it's pretty close to that exact definition. Intent may not be there but it is systematic.

alright. So I'm not here to argue-

But why don't you just say "It's not fair". Because it's not. End of story.

I'm sticking to my guns though, this is NOT genocide. More like carelessness, maybe a little bit of slight affluence.