ironlips

"Was Ms. Moreno in competition that night?" Well, actually, yes, and every professional performer is, every time. But that's not really my point. There is, (and never has been) a perfect performance of anything, but the job of the performer is to create the illusion thereof. Drum Corps is the art of illusion. Those forms are not symmetrical or evenly spaced, they just look that way. The music is neither balanced nor in tune, but you perceive it as such. Blemishes and warts are cleverly disguised by skillful players, designers and technicians. As for edited field versions invalidating the standstill recordings, the results speak for themselves. That is where no competition exists. They are completely different entities and both are valid in their own right. This is a very interesting discussion and admits of strong logic on many sides of the issue. If you think of field recordings as "documentaries" or a kind of archival audio journalism, you must opt for the unvarnished truth. If you want a great sounding recording, you will "condone" post-production. Apples and oranges come to mind, both of them tasty in context, I think.

I must admit to being impressed by the appearance of this eloquent turn of the phrase on this forum: "...that would just be insane schadenfreude..." And that really is the point. Perhaps a "real world" anecdote would add perspective. A while back, I heard Rita Moreno sing with a trio at a local caberet. She appeared for 3 nights, two sets per evening, all of them recorded. I attended "finals". At the performance in question , she began by saying, "I have a bit of a throat on this evening and may miss a note or two. It won't bother me. Don't let it bother you." She did have one little unintentional crack. When the recording was released, it wasn't there, and that is as it should be. It was an anomaly, not truly representative of Rita Moreno as an artist. Those of us who witnessed the actual event will just have to store her miss in the audio of memory. One wonders how many versions, revisions and edits exist of the Mona Lisa, Sunday in the Park, Finnegan's Wake, the Gospels of Matthew, War and Peace, and Saturday Night Live. If you were there, you witnessed the event. A recording will never be able to replicate that. Reverb, compression, ambience, fades, equalization, sampling rate and a host of other technical travesties must be visited on any other mass-consumed mechanical version. It's just a ghost of the actual happening, an impression, an "editorial", like any other historical document. It reflects someone's POV. And that, my learned colleagues, as Mr.Sondheim wrote, is the art of making art..."Putting it Together".

Current subject: Cadets sportswear, Sunrisers lapel pin.....hmmmmmm.

So, what's the real story, Andy, sans variations?

That's the way I heard it, too. Jimmy was a very fine DM for Lucy's. I watched him exert firm control over that rambunctious bunch from the 'hood when I assisted John Sasso over there. He would have had plenty of the right stuff for New York.

I'm with Andy. This forum is beginning to read like "Golden Gloves for Geezers". (Oh, wait, they just released a movie like that with DeNiro and Stallone!) While it's understood that we all had copious quantities of testosterone raging through our veins back in the day, most of it was diverted into performances on the field, or in the back of the bus. Now, who's got the next photo?

I always felt that Butch was a kinder, gentler, Winky.

No. You know perfectly well where he spent that summer, Andy. It was '77 when I sent up that flare to have him launch the rescue mission to Hackensack.

At the risk of breaking up this Snow Bird Love Fest... can we all agree that the subject at hand is the most famous (or infamous, depending on your perspective) of all Skyliner drum majors, Walter Winkelman? Are there any other WW stories suitable for a family forum?

Don, Your BB reputation is well-earned, I understand. I hold such talents in high regard. Salt notwithstanding, if one wishes to up one's skill level, it's advisable to engage in the activity in question with one's betters. That's why I come here, to learn from the likes of better busters than I. (I mean, check Glenn's little zinger about Cuba, above. That's some squeeze, man.)

Fran is way too smart to take that bait. As he often quotes, "Move along... There's nothing to see here."

It's true, one should make one's statement on the field, not off. I was just hinting at the total dysfunctionality that pervaded the corps in the early '70s until a strong director came along from upstate. Mr. DeLorenzo arrived just in time to prevent a complete nuclear melt-down. This is a common theme in drum corps in general, I daresay. But none of this has anything to do with the Wink-person who is the subject at hand, after all.

True. It got so bad the Sunrisers were actually fighting with themselves.

Ralph Shur's name was connected with that of the middle man a few posts ago. After he finished dancing with cymbals, he became quite the creative drill designer working with a number of notable corps, not the least of which were the Bronx Kingsmen and later, the Sunrisers in the late '60s. It was his idea, I believe, to play "Procession of the Nobles", an iconic piece they plan to feature again this season, I understand. He shared some of the bravado of the Winkster and other Sky personalities of that era. This proved quite valuable in conveying confidence to his students. We bought into him totally and he was afforded the status of a near-prophet. Actually, he was more of a conjurer or carnival magician. Ralph was very convincing with his drill "sleight of hand", until the day he had us march in a triangle form: 4 steps forward, 4 steps at a right angle, 4 steps back to the original spot. This, of course, was impossible due to a little Pythagorean thing called the square root of 2. Charlie Howell, mellophone with a Fordham U Masters in Math, pointed out to Ralph that, to get back to the spot in question it would take 4 x 1.414 steps, and that this had been proven several thousand years ago by the Greeks. Mr. Shur replied that, regardless, this kind of thing had been accomplished on a regular basis, without ever altering length of stride, in many a Skyliner drill. That went a long way towards explaining the confidence exuded by that generation of Skyliners. Even the immutable laws of geometry had to yield to them.

Ray F, I couldn't leg one out even when I played ball back then. Ask McGuinness, who ran up my back rounding third when he smacked one down the line one day at St. Francis Prep. I had started from second. So many of our compatriots who marched during the "Winky Era" are wont to be dismissive of today's more choreographic appoach to drum corps but none of us could handle the footwork of the present. Not a prayer. We did, however, play with a far more lusty and robust sound, and it had little to do with the key of G. Winky was a man born for the times, who knew he belonged in front of that kind of intensity.

Proud of you? Always, and still.

Andy, No. At the ripe old age of 15, I was going to "retire" from drum corps after the Queensmen folded and pursue my other passion: baseball. That lasted about 2 months, when Ted Sasso came by and said, "Hey, a few of the old guys are going to hang out after Sunriser practice. If you want to come, I can pick you up on the way." "OK", I said, "but I'm not joining the corps." About 2 seconds after we walked into the Mineola AL Post, the biggest hornline I had ever seen began wailing "French National", and pinned me to the wall. Part of me is still there, and always will be.

I don't mean to imply that Sky wasn't on top in 1963, with or without a potential influx from St. Catherine's. After all, they had just got Tommy Martin back from the USAF, and were positively loaded with talent. It would have been tough to make that line, but I think Lefty, Hy & Co would have made room for the likes of Teddy Sasso and Billy Cobham.

It's difficult to believe that no one will post any additional colorful stories about the man in the middle. It's not like there are none from which to choose. As Ray Fallon says, he did embody much swagger. I would add that applied off the field as well, and resulted in some notable moments. Over to you, Andy Lisko and Ray Priester, standing by...

The middle man was never going to win any trophies for diplomacy. Ten years earlier, St. Catherine's Queensmen stood on retreat at Union City at their very last contest. The corps was folding, and this had just been announced to the crowd. There was short, weird sound from the stands followed by applause which grew into a standing ovation. Our sadness was palpable. The man in question, whose corps stood next to us, took this opportunity to stroll over and announce, "OK, you guys, rehearsal's on Tuesday night!" Though his corps had been the favorite of most of us to that point, only one of our number eventually joined his team. About 25 of the rest of us went to a much less-accomplished unit 'way out on Long Island, instead. I often wonder what would have happened if he had held his fire just a bit, and those homeless juniors had followed their original intention. We'll never know.

Upon review, I do believe that's an affirmative.

The pacing of the production numbers in this show provided a clinic on how to contour and contrast for effect, irrespective of genre. If drum corps designers/coordinators studied these pros, our little 11-minute stadium vignettes would rise to a much higher level in terms of entertainment value. There was plenty of "cut and paste", but the seams were invisible and the effects superb. Just picture Snoop Dogg, an opera diva and an an entire audience singing along with Garth Brooks and 100 Viet Nam vets to a Billy Joel anthem. Box 6 and a half!

Chick Corea - St. Rose Scarlet Lancers Terri Lyne Carrington - student of Crown guru, Glenn Crosby Terence Blanchard - DCI brass clinician, mid-'80s Jeff Kievit - Muchahcos great, wailing for Billy Joel... ...not bad for a niche activity that lives way out on the periphery of the performing arts.

1972 was over 40 years ago, when our competitive rivalries were still prone to spilling over into behavior that would make the West Bank look like Disneyland. None of this did anything to advance the art form. Many of those involved have since passed on to their just rewards, or punishments, as the case may be. So, who's in the picture?