Blackstar

While reading a thread on the 75 Blue Devils, someone mentioned how most of the drum line from the Kingsmen, followed Float to Canada and the Crusaders which lead to the only line to win a caption without making finals. It made me think about recent develops. Would Boston be were they are if Lancers were still around or how the death of one corps helped another.

I made a joke last year about starting a corps with 10 key boards and 140 guard members. GE would be off the scale .....

Not trying to be a knucklehead but ya know this makes three corps this year. And nothing new on the horizon.

Find a 100,000 seat stadium anywhere in the country, advertise Florida A&M (pre scandal), Grambling, Southern, Bethune Cookman, Delaware State and on a different bill adverrtise Blue Devils, Cavaliers, Vanguard, Cadets, Phantom, Scouts and special appearance by the Buccaneers. Tickets $10. Which do you think would sell out first? In Alaska, Florida, Kansas, Maine, anywhere in the country. Ads just say appearing with the units name. Band or drum corps?

When I wrote the thread about predestined death of DCI I did it not because I don't like the activity. I did it as a wake up call. While we have rabid fans and thousands of young "kids" that want to march the issue is having places for them to march. Without growth there is stagnantion and with stagnation comes death. I really want to be able to take my grands who are now under 8 years old when they get older to a show and say Pop-pop used to do that when he was younger.

The whole issue to the survival of DCI is adding more corps. I can DCA growing becauswe while it mmight cost the same to start a corps ruinning it is alot less because its only a weekend activity. Also marketing is about selling a certain product to those that will buy it. If I can show that the average DCI fan is between 25 and 55 with an annual income of $60,000 a year (for a couple", college degrees and had 2 kids I can sell alot of different products. Will I get the same amount as a PGA tournament, or even the spelling bee, maybe not but I can sell enough ads at a rate to make a profit. (THE ABOVE NUMBERS ARE AN EXAMPLE ONLY) But guess what, drum corps does not translate to TV very well because of each show is 11 mins you need probably 5 mins of adds. for an hour thats about 3 1/2 corps. Showing partial shows without explanation doesn't work. the last telecast sucked because it spent to much time on non performace stuff. You haven't seen any other sports telecast explaining parts of the team or how things are put together. ONCE AGAIN DCI NEEDS TO FIND A WAY TO ADD MORE CORPS. Unless you want to watch the same 20-30 for the next 10 years.

DCI couldn't fully advertise a cable TV broadcast because it only advertised music related content. I think they had the same ad 6 times. Don't know if no one tried to contact other non-music advertisers but it was a failure. DCI can't fill movie houses because they don't advertise properly. Why not partner not only with the cinema but offer schools a percentage for tickets sold. I think it cost $15. I would have paid $20 for 15 corps knowing that some of the money went to a local organization. I see ads for Blast coming to the local playhouse in TV and on radio. They sell out every time in Wilmington DE, probably everywhere they go. Anyone see a correlation here? People get a myopic view of Drum corps advertising. As anyone see any other ads besides drum corps on DCP. I'm sure the average drum corps fan as a pretty good overall income. Why not have cars, TV's, shoes, furniture whatever advertised on here and at shows. Yeah they have ads in the programs so why won't it work on a larger scale. Sure you can't ask the same dollar as the Battle of the Bands but you can get something. Something is better then nothing. And speaking of Battle of the Bands, at HBCU's people go to see the bands as much as the football games. Why, because they are..wait for it...ENTERTAINING. Yes, the music playing and marching isn't drum corps caliber but you can tap your foot to it, You remember the music after its over. The dancers are dancers not "color guard who dance". And they make pretty pictures on the field. If someone has to explain the show to you then its not a good show. All of my favorite music I like because of the way it sounds not the back story. Don't care that Appalachian Spring is about America or Ruslan and Ludmilla and is a Russian poem. Maybe the poster that wrote DCI has become sissified is right. 2008 Madison Scouts is a prime example. Thank God they found the old Madison from the 70's. Battle of the Bands sound kind of like DCI of the 70's and early 80's. I would add more but I have to go to work and the water is off until noon and I have to figure out a way to get ready.

Why do I continue to use examples. Maybe I over estimate peoples grasp of the situation..... smh People say volunteer to help out. I work 50 hours, volunteered at the fire company for 35 years, have a daughterin college I got to pay for. When do I and most people have time to volunteer. Donate, if I'm going to give money to a cause its going to be one thar benefits the most people or those that really need it. I'm not going to give money to a group of people that can pay thousands of dollars flying to practice and can afford to take a summer off. Yes I know everyone doesn't fly and are struggling to pay fees but my money goes to food banks and reading programs. When I mentioned bringing their own instruments I was looking for a way to reduce the cost of start up. Without reducing cost their no future. Having budgers in the hundreds of thousands without a viable, stable income there is no activity.

I can't stand this anymore. For every example you can find the opposite example. Someone mentiioned Blue Stars coming back from a smaller division to were they are now. fine, but were are 27, Bridgemen, Kinsgmen, Kilties (being a senior corps doesn't count if you follow the Blue Stars example) other corps that were finalist. Having ONE corps out of hundreds is not an example of a strong activity. By showing that the Celtics won 14 championships in 41 years wtihout showing that there have been 14 different champions in the same time period. While there have been dominate teams but more telling is that there are twice as many different teams thats were in the championship game but lost. Competition. Mr Boo mentioned that someone said the activity only had 5 years back in 1977. Maybe this was because of the changes going on at the time, different marching styles, playing styles, not the lost of so many corps. Its all about context. They also mentioned Crown becoming a championship corps in a short time. That short time was 22 years. But of course theres Spirit who came within .6 of being champion in only 4 short years. The issue of all this is not that there are no kids who want to march, its baout not having enough corps. No new corps means the death of the activity. Once again we lost 2 corps this year. Small corps yes but two we can't afford to lose. Only when a Colts, Madison or Phantom have issues and need to "take a year off"will people wake up. Once again until we find a way to make this activity to have a better entry cost its doomed. AND YES THE SKY IS FALLING.

You're right, I apologize for the Padres and Astros remark. LOL I do remember when they were pretty good.

1- Change the model Country wide touring is killing the activity. Yes corps are doing it but at what cost. Gas is at an all time high and not going below $3 a gallon anytime soon. Insurance rates are sky rocketing. 1A Go regional. Set up the country in whatever regions you want. These corps perform in that region the first half of the year. Then tour in the next closet region. Southeast would tour in the Northeast, Northeast would go Midwest etc. Each region would have one wildcard corps that would go into the other direction. This does two things. It reduces the cost because now corps are spending more time together. They are in the same city so they can share cost. Larger discount on food purchases and gas. Possibly sharing travelling cost with the smaller corps. 1B Change the pay rate. Everyone gets the same amount for each show. But there are placement awards. I don't know what each corps get but how can a smaller corps compete with a corps that earns X amount more then they do. Please don't say it cost more to run Cavaliers then it does Legend. They both have cost that need to be met. Legends is in a more picarious (sic) situation becuase they don't have the alumni to help or souvie sales. 2- Reduce the cost of starting a corps How would be for a corps to ask players to bring their own horns? How would that go over. I want to start a corps but can only afford drums, But then I need so many mallet instruments and accessories and stuff to get it on the field I can't buy uni's. Then theres leasing buses, a food wagon, vehicles for staff, hell paying what 5 horn people, 5 drum staff, 2 guard cherographers, (when did that change), drill writer, marching techs, program co-ordinator, Jesus H, no wonder no one starts a corps anymore. What would the minimum staff of a 40H 16B 6P 26G corps be? There has to be a cheaper way. 3- Advertise, advertise, advertise Stop preaching to the chiors. In the 30 plus years there been a show in West Chester PA I think I've seen maybe 3 ads in the local paper here in Wilmington DE about 20 mins away. Never any TV or radio ads. But since the shows are usually sold out theres no need. BUT if you had 2000 seats and sold out at $15 but 3000 wanted to attended how much could you really charge. With more demand you can charge more. Also if you have more corps with regional touring you can defently cahrge more. But more people need to be aware of the activity. Maybe thats why hald the theatres are half empty each year. Something like that should be sold out, then have a 2nd showing on tape. 4- Expand the circuit. I don't see an issue having an indoor corps. WGI is going to have something in several years because their already headed that way. What will this do. By going indoor and regional it lets you expand the time involved. You have field alreeady avaiable with over 100 indoor football teams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Indoor_American_football_leagues_in_the_United_States. Kids would be able to march on the weekends and not miss school. Your season could be from January to april to co-incide with the football season. Your corps could perform at these gamnes to earn money. Bringing in woodwinds brings DCI in direct competition with Band. Alot of directos hate drum corps anyway. This might not help. 5- Get a Director with some real power. The power needs to be taken out the corps hands and given to an independent authority. In every major sport the Commisioner is appointed by the owners with a set contract. This contract lets him tell the owners kiss my ### at times but lets him work for the benefit of the sport. Look at boxing without a central authority. Maybe thats why UFC is becoming more popular then boxing, at least in America.

I've read most of the replies. Yes the sky is falling. Wake up. I didn't write this because I hate the activity. I wrote it because people need to wake up. When I marched in 84 we had three large divisions. Easily 30 plus corps in class A and Open Class. But people say we're having the most competitive year ever. If you got 2 or 3 corps battling it out its good. But don't sound like the old joke about the Russian rowing team, in a two boat race Russian finish 2nd, America finishes next to last. I knew someone would find teams that dominated thier sport. When they ignore the fact that not only can the Yankees win but so can the Marlins, Pirates or Reds, (not the Astos or Padres, they flat out suck every year) But once again this isn't possible in DCI. I wonder what really would happen if The Academy came out and started beating the Blue Devils and Vanguard early in the season. Yes big jumps have happened but what, twice in 41 years? But I'm not the kind of person to yell fire. I'm a firefighter so I'm used to giving solutions which will be presented shortly.

1- The financial model is unsustainable. In very few activities can such a large financial output with a low ROI grow. Of these activities most are singular and those that require groups have an almost even cost vs income. While fans of this activity look at the return on a summer of traveling, learning and performing, the financial return just isn't there. Also there are what could be considered more "worthy" groups for grant or donated monies to be given. Most small business' would love to make a million dollars a year. But since many don't I don't see the chance for a DCI top 12 corps to last in this day and age. Sure there will always be those that make me out to be a liar but in the end money will make the difference. 2- To much competition from other activities. In the 40's, into the early 70's kids had limited options on learning music or travelling. Now high school bands are almost touring and travel enough to satisfy their needs. And at a much lower cost. As a parent I would have no problem paying for my 17-19yo child to travel with the high school band, But in the summer they should be working to pay for things they want and get ready for college. This is something I noticed as a volunteer firefighter. I joined at 15 and stayed. Most of my friends joined, most left but some also stayed. At one point we could say that every male in my neighborhood had been a member of the fire company. But then we found that kids had found other interest by age 15. electronics, girls, even drugs. We weren't the only fire company with this problem. We faced the same issues drum corps is going through. This is were someone writes about the 1000's of kids who try out every year. Then how come we don't have 50 full size corps? How come corps are looking for players in the middle of the season when they had all these kids audition? Why can't they call up the kid of just missed out and say "hey we got an opeining want to march" But no they are seeking an almost unknown quanity to fill a spot. How many kids who tried out and then seen a notice about an opening on that corps is now thinking "why aren't I good enough to call, to hell with drum corps" The number of kids who try out are a massive fraction of members of high school or college band. Its not as big as you think 3- There is no oversight. DCI is one of the few if only activity of this type that is self governed. Just think if baseball had the same model. Each year the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rangers and other winning clubs made the rules to make it harder for other teams to win. How long would the fans of the other 30 plus clubs rise up and revolt. DCI has become boxing except only one governing body. They make rules that help the larger corps (themselves) and do nothing to assist smaller corps. How could they do that. Reduce the needed equipment each corps has. No electronics, smaller pits reduce allowed props on the field. Highlight open class corps during the simulcast. And by that I'm not talking a quick 1 minute highlight I'm talking 3-4 shows in full light world class corps. But why help someone get better to beat me, I wouldn't. 4-There is no real competition in DCI. Okay this might cause the most controvesary because I'm going to get tons of examples were corps A only beat corps B by 9/10's or how each years theres movement and this year the Cavaliers will finish outside the top 4 for the first time in decades. Sure all true, but what chance does the Colts, or Crossmen or even the Academy have of winning. I'm talking about finishing 12 this year and winning next year. NON, ZERO ZIP NADA. Only in DCI is that not possible. In baseball you get worst to first, baseball, heck even tennis once in a while but never DCI. But in DCI the top 12 run things. Maybe thats way theres been so little movement in the top 7. The major leagues want parity. It creates more competition. Who wants to see every football game win 35 to 7. But thats what we get with each show. If I see a line up of Cadets, Bluecoats, Crossmen, Surf I'll get the right order of finish 9.5 out of 10 each time. I bet most fans can pick the right order of finish for the next 10 shows, no real competition. 5- Theres no next generation of corps In the 70's and 80's we had the Glassmen, Bluecoats, Blue Knights and some others coming up the ranks. There was alsways that group of 15-25 corps around that could make a move up. And in that group there were some really entertaining corps outside of the top 12. Right now we have a good 25-30 strong junior corps. Another factor is that its too dangerous financially to start a corps. It takes what, $100,000 maybe $50,000 to get started without talking about touring. Bingo as no longer a viable income generator. Grants are hard to come by and inconsistant. If we get a new corps every 2-3 years and we're losing a corp a year it means the death of the activity. More people are upset over the lost this year of Teal Sound but almost overlook the lost of a corps that was supposed to be celebrating 75 years, the Racine Scouts. Until one of the big 7 drops out a year no one will wake up. What this activity needs is more corps like Pioneer who are stable financially and operationally.

I don't come onto the boards as much as I used to. I noticed that the Review section was taken out. But I also noticed theres no seperate threads with reviews. Are they buried in other threads or people just not doing them this year. I remember when we got section counts, music selection and all the good stuff you needed to understand a show even if you didn't see it.

We need more corps like this. Getting kids involved is more important then the final score.

Watching Judge Mathis last week the next case came up and the plantiff announced that he was glad to be back in Chicago as he was a former member of the World Champion Cavaliers drum and bugle corps. I'm thinking to myself cool, They get a nice shout out on national TV. But wait, no sooner had he said that he followed with "I love you and Doyle (the baliff) and proceeded to try to pick up Doyle and the Judge in a very unflattering manner. I believe the term, "I love handcuffs" might have been used at one point. He didn't say when he marched but hopefully people forget the first part because of the 2nd part.

I wish they would do something to get the name back in the public. I'm sure the local paper would do a story. I found out a fellow firefighter was a snare for Blue Rock, and I've known the guy for 30 years without a clue.

I really wish people would stop equating winning with success. I understand Drum Corps is a competitive activity but we need to expand on the win at all cost. Its reallt whats killing the activity. Every corps needs to buy uniforms every couple of years. New equipment is getting out of control. If I had kids that wanted to march I would look for a corps that treated thier kids right, was fair and had fun. Pioneer is to me what drum corps should be...giving kids a chance.

That doesn't count, Crossmen are from West Chester PA, Corps hall used to be on Westtown Rd. So that answer is no, just like most corps especally D1 or Open or whatever thier called this year.

Here in Wilmington DE it was 69 degrees 2 days ago and 42 today...Its the Presidents fault...we might as well blame the weather on him too.....

Ran across a PBS showing of DCI East in 1979. Really surprised me. I remember putting the cassette tape up to the TV to record it. That tape lasted 4 years. Then I found some old DCW's and another drum corps papers that focus mostly on east coast corps. So for me the shows that first turned me on to drum corps, 79 North Star, bridgemen, 27th Lancers Blue Devils and Spirit of Atlanta.

I'm not really a Rush person besides Tom Sawyer and Limelight...and now YYZ. But I guess people knew what I meant.

thanks its was really driving me crazy..well that and dealing with my oldest daughters wedding...and my youngest daughter moving to South Carolina...and....never mind.. but thanks again

I was looking at Rush's video of XYZ and it has phrases of drum solos I've heard somewhere in drum corps but can't place it. It was a solo or exercise. Does anyone know who played it or if it was played?