BigW

I think in discussions about the 1982 Horn line- and I was going to get to more of this- but I think some things need to be noted and thought about. I think people forget that we were second in horns by .05 to Sky, which was a very controversial caption win to say the least. Meaning, our horn line beat everyone else in 82..... We had the hornline that year in DCA. In spite of half the horns still using piston-rotors when everyone else at the top had full 2-valve lines excepting maybe the Contras. Something to seriously think about. We weren't going to sound like Reading. Tony's arrangements were different, more consonant and triadic. Orchestral pieces and pop tunes- Reading's meat and potatoes in that era- are arranged quite differently than Large-ensemble jazz pieces. We had our own timbre/tone color because of Frank's denser and deeper-layered harmonies, which are less transparent. We were also an A**load more bottom-heavy than anyone else in DCA at that time, bar maybe Reading. We were very, very much in tune for that era, if we were NOT-- the 7 and 9 chords we played would have been shot down in flames in execution for bad intonation. Dave would have been all over us. We'd have been all over each other! To compare the Westshoremen Horn Ensemble to a Pipe Organ would be highly inaccurate. It wasn't an organ. It was a jazz ensemble. It's an apple to an orange. The question would be which fruit was the better quality fruit to the judge. In 1982 we had better quality fruit in the hornline than anyone. Part of the problem was that it was some kinda exotic speciality fruit sold at Wegman's as compared to the more normal every-day apples and oranges a lot of the DCA corps were used to selling. I'm not saying there were problems. There were, and not little issues, either! I'll get to that in detail later, some of Ben's comments are in that vein about a lot of issues that went on as the season progressed. I believe I know what went on and what happened, but I will explain some of this later. The thing with Sun's horn line in this era was this- and I think Fran and Tony would agree-- everyone talked about the percussion, and deservedly so. BUT--- that horn line was always in the mix, never, ever far from the top, at worst a tick or two below. Always well prepared, always very clean and never slovenly or lazy about how to perform the book, and most important- knew how to SELL material given them when it came time to SELL. When it came time in their performances to throw down, they DID. Sun's horn line didn't stand there like a buncha robots pressing buttons. They also understood how to run the race of the overall season. When the bell lap rang, they were close enough to the lead pack or in that pack, or just enough in front that they had a kick at the end of the season to run for the win. Also- The Sunrisers shows were very well coordinated and a solid package. They weren't trying to pull an Oakland Crusaders stunt on the field, you know where I'm coming from. Everything was put together as a solid, quality total package for the era. Will discuss more later. I need to get 3 hours sleep before racing today. Things here are still nuts. The former handyman's in Cumberland county prison now, more crap went on in the apartments, and when I went to Fariview Township to see if they might look out for my missing cars- they told me to also go talk to Camp Hill about this idjit. My locks have been changed, and it's just been a real nightmare lately, it could have been worse-- but he needs serious jail time, and the police folks I've talked to said he's looking at it at this point. I'm looking forward to next Almuni rehearsal to just get my head out of all this crap that's been going on here because of this this bunghole of a person.

A bit touchy. Hopkins would have been better off keeping his mouth shut and not adding to the simple factsabout the situation. Doing what he did in the way he typically does it leaves many people wonder. Treating people like he has over and over leaves people wonder. Damning Eric with faint praise, which I think is a fair evaluation of his public statement, doesn't show Hopkins in a very good light, period. You can defend him all you want- his track record with certain things like this release leaves me and others rather distrustful and skeptical about many of his motives. Like it- or lump it. That's the deal. If you're *really* Eric's friend- I would believe you would readily agree with me in that he was more than capable of taking on this task and succeeding at an extremely high level at it. If so- then why are you so ready to gloss over what actions Hopkins took, and his associated statements? There had to be a reason for it, and it's clear he wants to bury it deep underground, as do you. Since Hopkins was rather curt in his statement that there would be no explanation-- He may as well have said- "I dare you to figure out why I did something that at face value makes no sense to anyone". A lack of transparency in any organization invites questions, regardless of whether it's corps, sports, government, or a business. Really, it certainly sounds to me you're better friends with Hop than you are with Eric, and that you threw that comment in to try and reinforce your weak premises. The term "apologist" comes to mind....

The bum even kidnapped my Dr. Ullrich figure I got as a gift. (no, NOT Gary, this guy is Ullrich with 2 L's!) I'm a HUGE Audi racing fan- if you run into my Dad he wears a hat I got him from Germany as do I when it's a nice day out. THAT was what took the biscuit. He's at 3 cars missing valued at about 205 bucks, one Dr. Ullrich figure at 12 bucks and 2 damaged cars at 16 bucks repair parts. Add to that the fitty pounds of meat and poultry he shoplifted from the Giant- he's in a heap o' trouble. I figured when I helped him take the meat downstaris to his apartment- me being a good guy and this guy is disabled... I thought- well, he's likely on food stamps and disability, he can afford all this crap... And yeah, thank GOD he didn't swipe my Euphonium. I would kill on that issue. The Bugle's stashed in the Wagon and okay too. Part of me digs the Kanstul I use for almuni because it's kinda like an old, fast, beautiful race car that will kill you if you don't drive it juuuust right. I find it very rewarding when I can get it to click and make things happen the way they should happen. But Gawd, I felt bad for Fisher when I lost it on the last note of Explosion at last practice. Whoa, I hit that high D spot on, then musically crumpled into a ball of plasma! I need to ask Fisher if I can try his Kanstul Grande once to compare. I KNOW Mike's King bari, even short one valve IMHO is superior to both, and I know Kenny Norman would agree ad do some other cats. I played it once BITD and when you play it, the sound comes out like paint off a brush, not like tracer bullets spewing from a minigun.

Korngold wrote some fantstic film music, didn't he? I remember Seahawk, nice arrangement- and very, very well played. I was always suprised Bucs never did the music from "Captain Blood", another Korngopld masterpiece.

Old guys can't be Cadets. It implies young peeps.... I do remember references from staff about the "Barely Normal Cadets" and how we performed like them when we had a bad run-through, but I've never seen any film, pics or recordings.

Yeah- the question is subtle... true. I'll "Hop" on that answer as to who.

Cadets 2 is YEA!s new entry into DCA. They have an age limit of 22-23(?), and plan on having a go at it.

Dude, that's @*(&% up. Can't stay, have to do some detective work to see if I can locate my stolen property. Lemme put it this way Ben- how would you feel if someone swiped and damaged some of your scuba gear? The guy's in trouble already, I hope to give him more at this point.

The other issue here is the expense, Tom. 1500 dollars is ten times what I paid in dues for Westshore 30 years ago. Even adjusting for inflation- that corps is expensive and is significantly more than I paid for my excellent instruction from people like Eric, Frank Dorrite, Ray Eyler, Dave Rohrer, and Mel Stratton. That money gets you 9-12 credits at our local Community college- and to be blunt, most school districts and administrators hold corps experience utterly valueless when they're hiring. It's not a Big Ten college band, which is what they envision as good. As much as I dislike a lot of what YEA!/Hopkins has been doing and pulling- I hope they field the corps, I hope they compete, I hope they put up a heck of a fight! I think the main issue is- and I'm sure you know Eric, as do likely thousands of us in Bands and Corps that he's taught over 30 years-- The guy is tough, intense, a competitor, and also a great educator, hard worker and good guy that most of us deeply respect. He taught ME how to teach movment and gave me the tools. Many of us know people who have worked for YEA!, and they all don't last, and there are good reasons they left, and it's not on their end of it that's the problem. I may well be adding Eric to the list of good folks YEA! has jacked around. Hop just keeps making it longer....

I myself think of the Swegers a lot. All of them, thought I don't know Brian's family well. I still remember Jim Wilson (Chunks) and I helping Donny with his cymbals on a scorcher of a day at Jessup, and him laughing his laugh, smiling, and shaking his head when he realized Jim and I could barely lift ONE of those plates each. Amazin'! I never let anyone in the hornline get away with saying Donnie or the cymbals had it "easy" after that. Popeye woulda had trouble with those beasts. Erie had Zona... I forget the ame of the Hurcs guy who carried those for years... all more or elss legendary for haulin' those plates around and playing them hard.

A young Eric Kitchenmen taught me in his first corps staff position- and he's basically not intense enough according to this release? Really? I know we all mellow out as we age, but if there was anyone I can think of who could get the job done if I had an all-age corps that i wanted to be very, very, good, I can think of few people who might be able to do it as well as he could. Maybe he wasn't raising and begging for enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to satisfy the 'management'. That's my guess on the situation here. Tom Moore, if you're reading this thread, Don;t let Hop hire you to do professional press releases, please.

Hmm... the recipe for Southwind Punch/aka Fubi-Jubi, as Bill Light calls it... IIRC, somehting like this according to Rook and Brother Dave- Bali Hai wine of a good week- Beer- Knowing Krauss, prolly Natty Bo.... Grain- Vodka- Couple drops of Gatorade or Hawaiian Punch for flavor Something in a bottle in the fridge or liquor cabinet with a "good, strong smell". Mix in a carafe, and drink. Evidently good for prostate health.

The one story I'd heard about Nawlins was when Larry jumped off the diving board during the post contest party and went down to the bottom of the pool and sat there. People got worried when he continued to sit there submerged and someone had to get him out according to the sources that told me. Jim, can you confirm that?

Lots to reply to. Yes, Benny's lady was hawt. Smokin' hawt. I still remember when she passed out at retreat right after they announced we beat the Hurcs at the Scranton show in '79. Pow! It was like a sniper took her out from the press box! I was going to get to Norm- I thought though that he passed away a couple of weeks into the 1982 season, and that someone in the corps-Larry, Chuck, Bill et al? delivered a trophy from Clifton to him in the hospital. I'm sure Larry or Bill can get the year right for us next rehearsal. Al, Norm, Little Pete, all great guys to know and be around, period. I'll talk more about him later, I still think of him often and fondly- and he's one of those guys who was more than he appeared to be- Retired USN Lt-Commander or Commander and WW2 vet. Dad found that out about him talking to him, and he told me, and I said- "Dad, OUR Norm? Norm from the Rebs, in the Main Guard Norm?" (While thinking quietly to myself, our Norm who gives Rook, Chumley and I beer Norm......) "Yes!" "Holy @(%^(&%^!!! WOW!" He had that straw aussie hat with the big Y-R badge on it he'd wear when he'd drink. I guess it was his warning/signal to all he was rowdy, and I still remember when he told off Fluffy on Bus 1 when she was too much her "normal self", to put it nicely. We all applauded. We'd all had enough, but Norm wasn't PC about it. Another story for a dinner or corps party. Make a list and I'll tell them at the party after Hanover.

John Bender was one of the influences to join corps from his performing- he still laughs at me when I tell him that. Larry was with Osmond Junior IIRC. Pepe's background, starting from a neighborhood junior corps and then moving on is pretty incredible. And, he was a very fiery rival to compete against, let me tell you. I am proud to say I was in a corps that got the best of him twice- and that's a story with that involving Frank Dorrite and Pepe on that subject I'll eventually get to in the Westshoremen thread. And you're right- most of the posts are bari guys- and it's obvious all of us are students of the instrument- and to be a good student, you have to listen to the people you respect and admire and take something from what they do to help you grow. And at 49, I haven't stopped learning and listening to a lot of the people on this list. Our leads in the early 80's Westshoremen were very proud of our ability, and we did some fine feature and small ensemble work- but I think we'd all say that we'd be most proud of our achievements as an entire low brass section.

Regardless of era and equipment, many of these guys were still accomplished musicians and made great music out of the horn in spite of the difficulty of wrangling some of those old bugles- and I've played on some, need to restore my G-D tenor myself. It's why I mentioned Larry Scott on this thread. And-- he was such a decent, kind, wonderful guy that I was honored to know as I grew up in NJA. I just try and point out some of the guys that maybe never got noticed, or because of the passage time, aren't known, and should be.

AMEN, brudda! It's why Hirsbrunner Eupohniums have an interchangeable shank assembly.

John Bender, Reading Bucanners BITD. Dave Cooksey, Scouts BITD. The Bari guy with BD in 93. The Feature with 85 Suncoast. All great for different reasons. What is in common is all project their personalities, wear their heats on their sleeve, and are fearless. I also agree with the call on Rick Moss, for the aforementioned reasons. And RIP Bill Kellerman, 1990 Crossmen bari soloist, who was no slouch, either and was a great young man. From the ancient days, Reilly had a wonderfully good solost, Larry Scott, who could actually make MUSIC out of one of those nasty old G-D bugles in period. Do a google for "Larry Scott, Student Prince solo" and scroll down, old 78 recording, but Larry really could play with heart.

A reverse shank adapter from large to small? I'm unsure ff anyone manufactures that. I'd also be seriously concerned that it would extend the length of the leadpipe sigificantly and cause serious intonation issues from the get-go. My advice- use what I use for my small-shank YEP321S Euphonium and my Kanstul Bari- a Denis Wick 6BY or perhaps what I found on their list if you like them bigger, a 4AY. they fit in the smaller shank, and have a deep cup and a great open throat to compensate for the smaller shank. It's good for the delicate playing I do with a Brass Quintet on my Euph or for gunning down the audience in alumni corps.

Oh, yes, the issues with leaving at Pibadee. Escorted out by either the Massatoochitts Stateies or the local constabulary, after Virgin and Rickie Lee offloaded how many lamps and object's d'art? I think Rook kept the towels anyway. THAT was surreal.

No pool at Pibadee. The only entertainment was the Silverball Mania Pinball machine. NOTHING! Well, TV. All like 3ish channels. I remember asking if there was a nearby place to eat at the lobby. Go to even McDonalds for God's sake for a change of pace and a walk. they told me there was an I-Hop. I say, "Where!?!?!?" The response, "Ten miles down the road". I also remember the Hotel staff telling us the Bridgemen superglued the knobs on the TV's and did some stuff as well when they went stir-crazy. If we had superglue, we'd have done that, too, as well as shot it in the locks to the rooms the way we were going there. Pibadee was a Holiday Inn. Not a bad one, but lacked anything close within walking distance and lacked anything to do when stuck there. The Roundtowner was a really decent Hotel, a serious cut above the budget chains. Rooftop pool, like 15 floors, we did have things to do, IIRC the TV had more than 4 channels-- I still remember trying to watch TV when we were in Broussard, it was CBC boring, and CBC 2 more boring..... Speaking of Superglue and locks, I did that to a fellow educator who honked me off. She relied on index cards for lesson plans. Zap a Gap fills a tupperware index card holder snap thing very well since it fills all gaps. Shut the top of the card holder, the pressure helps to make the bond better. And I also had a bottle of Zip Kicker, which is a catalyst which instantly hardens Superglue, hardens it so fast it crackles and you can feel the coolness of the checmical reaction. And hardens it VERY righteously. Shoot the Zap into the lock... then shoot the kicker. It'd take a LOT of acetone to get that stuff out of a lock mechanism. Oh, and did the same to the pencil sharpener. Emptied it first so it'd be awhile before anyone found THAT. Didn't get caught, was out of dodge and the town for good before she'd have found it out... You guys know I'm normally a very good guy- helped a neighbor out last night at 4 AM for instance when he was in serious trouble, but just don't cop a "I are a normal and holier than thou" attitude with me and throw it in my face like she did. Heck, I don't think I've gotten that medieval on anyone since then, which was over 20 years ago. Though I do have to say there are some former students in upstate NY that I'd gladly do that to if I ever got the opportunity.

The Mormons incident didn't happen at Pibadee. NOTHING happened there, which was why we went stir-crazy and people wrecked the place like the Bridgemen did when THEY were there before us. But at one time we did stay in Boston at the Roundtowner with the Mormons. It HAD to be 1981. Why? I don't think McShane marched with us in '82, and the person who has and took the photo of McShane in that suit's rookie year was 1981. that narrows down the window. Hmm, let's look at DCA's website and see where we DID compete in 1981, that's gotta give us a clue.... Hmm... unless... the person who HAS the photo didn't TAKE the photo. I clearly remember McShane did all of this with the Mormons at the Roundtowner on the rooftop pool. (Who can forget THAT goofy name for a Hotel!?!?!?) Maybe Larry or Bill Leight can get the connection there for us next Alumni practice? And no, the McShane in Drag incident with the Mormons didn't happen at the motel (Days Inn!?!?!) in Canton, where a lot DID happen, with Brother Dave, Denny Chiaretta, Ben, Ricky Lee, and several others. Now, where was I during that whole mess that night!?!?!? Good question! I was with Bill Leight, Howie (I think Howie), and Benny Behrens. Benny wanted "Pizza Pie" (yes, that's what people of that vintage inclding one of my Grandfathers called it), said he knew where some was nearby and set out on foot down the freakin' highway in total darkness. We went along figuring someone should keep an eye on Benny setting foot on a highway at night, he walked down a road at least a mile or two, we made him turn around, and we ended up at the Denny's where we had spaghetti as a compromise with him. I heard what happened from Denny C. with the communion served with sliced bananas as the communion wafers in the conference room they broke into, and also heard that somehow, Chuck got pulled into that "religious service" when he tried to stop it. As for THAT pool in Canton and the interactions with Canton law enforcement, and the normals at the Day's Inn who were offended by what was going on in said pool, I was NOT there, I have witnesses in the form of Bill Leight, Howie, and Benny's angel. I plead NOT GUILTY!!!! Someone had to keep an eye on Benny or the van wouldn't have made it home...

Okay- Hmm throw lunch in the Microwave.. start typing.... We stayed at the Roundtowner hotel in Boston in '81 (had to be 81). A really decent place. Buncha floors, etc. Larry did get us good accomodations while I marched, I have to make sure readers know this. We figured, it was gonna be time to PARTAY.... Well... Larry gets the corps together and reads us the riot act. He rarely ever did this. But, he tells us that we were shairng the Horel floors we were on or above and below with a Mormon convention. Yep, the Church of Jesus Christ's Latter-day Saints/Brigham Young were in the building with.... US. We were told we had to behave, and NOT do stuff that might get the Mormons upset with management. Hold on while I get out my Chef-Boy-ar-dee, please.... When some of us heard, "mormons", they started repeating the word "mormons" over and over and started wringing their hands with a pretty evil grin, and Larry warned them again to behave.... The Roundtowner had a nice pool on the roof, it was hot, we were young, hey- of course we all went up there for a swim or to hang out. And of course, the Mormons felt the same way for the same reasons. What we didn't know was that McShane borrowed Trout-woman's blue one-piece swimsuit. Being made of lycra, it, well... fit, as we found out when he comes up to the pool, hair moussed/slicked back and dives in. Now.... the really interesting part was the overall reaction. We all wanted to laugh, to say something, but we didn't. Why? 1: It'd get McShane in God-knows how much trouble, which would get US into trouble, and have Larry upset. 2: all of us knew to observe and see just how far this whole thing could go, which was usually preety far when McShane was concerned. Mall trips in Canton looking for women's clothes in his size (42 fat, incidentally), dives into piles of sawdust, playing the bugle underwater, etc etc. He was able to use HIS swimsuit because he was wearing Trout-woman's, but the real piece d'resistance was when the Mormon guys start talking to him and flirting at the side of the pool. It was ... well, like watching a really good NASCAR or IndyCar wreck in slow motion. you knew SOMETHING was gonna happen, somehow, but WHAT.... One of the guys says soomething funny to him, he says in his drag-queeny voice he was using, "Oh, you BRUTE!" and shoves the Mormon into the pool. This is comedy movie material, for God's sake. There IS a picture out there, I have seen it. Hopefully, maybe I can ask nicely if this pic can resurface at the party after Profiles in Music. The one serious thing he DID do was at 1980 Championships- bet a friend in Hurcs we'd beat them, each got a gold piece worth at the time 500 bucks, each wore it around their necks during their respective performances, believe me, when he told the horn line, it gave me EXTRA focus to do a good job. We all know what happened afterwards, and he paid off. So there's the McShane in Boston story. And thanks for clearing up the AL Championships status thing, Fran. I thought Dr. Sebastianelli did some things afterwards, and it's too bad it hasn't continued. Really, the Scranton show is the last vestige of the AL-DCA link that's really seen short of Post 199 and the Cabs....

Tom did MORE than that with the Pool.

If you're talking about McShane and the Roundtowner Hotel full of Mormons, I have no idea whether this was ever discussed here. I remember doing the afternoon parade and some poor guy offering us his beer when we stopped near a bar. It lasted .00565 seconds. Bless him. That parade was long, hilly and hot. I think Frankie Filapelli drank most of it.... I also remember competing at Nickerson field. It rained between the parade and contest. Nickerson Field was really top-notch- was the Boston Breakers' USFL field later (how's THAT for sports trivia!?) and was/is(?) Boston College's field. The problem was that it was that early tartan turf. When it got wet, it became paper thin, and underneath it was a concerte slab. When we did that turn-around and kneel in Spanish Dreams, I can remember the huge splash of water from the hornline as we went down, the "SPLAT!" noise, and the fact my bleepin' knees hurt like hell from the impact. IIRC, Kathy Federovich's knees were bad then, and that didn't help things for her either. I don't know how much I should elaborate on McShane and the Mormons. I have a feeling people would think I was making that whole thing up. I know there's a picture extant that would corroborate what he did. It was one of those long trips combined with a hotel. God help everyone. At least we had more fun in Boston than we did in nothing-to-do-but-crowd-around-the-Silverball-Mania-Pinball-Machine in Pib-a-dee Massatoochitts. The Pool made all the difference. On occassion I deal with a package headed to Pib-a-dee. I smile, and think, Oh! Someone actually DID something there besides breathe and ordered something! I also think the other thing worthy of note was that it might have been the last actual American Legion Senior National Championships ever held. I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that- it was fitting Hawthorne came out and snagged that one from the Bucs since they're so tightly associated with that title. I don't know if any kids read this. If you are, we DID actually DO Drum Corps, too.