ContraBuddy

Hey everyone! Just a short post to let all the contra players (and tuba players, too) know that there's a new online group called the Contra Lounge. It's an online 'Hang Out' for contra players. It's also got a seperate section for Contra Gals. Stop by and check it out. Contra Lounge http://groups.msn.com/ContraLounge/welcome.msnw Bill

OK guys, time to add my 2 cent's worth to this discussion. I've been a contra player since '79. I've marched DCI Class A, DCI Top 12, DCA Top 12 and Alumni corps and I'm still marching/playing (when I can) with Blessed Sac & Bracken Cavaliers Alumni. I've also got drum corps recordings going back to 1948, which I listen to almost daily. So, I've heard more corps & contra lines than most people have, and when I listen to a corps, I like to hear the contra line clearly. Alot of corps have fielded truly outstanding contra lines over the years. But, the over-all best-ever contra line may never be recognized simply because their line was never heard clearly, or they were just given really crappy music to play. Remember, late 60's thru mid 70's, a 4 person contra line was pretty much the norm & 6-8 the norm from mid. 70's thru mid/late 80's. You can tell that they're there, but they don't stand out at all unless the drill brings them to the front line. Incredible talent and outstanding music won't get them on the list if no one ever really got to hear them. Older recording technology being lousey with the contra's range doesn't help either. Add to that the fact that we pretty much used to spend the whole show stuck behind the drum line. So, the question of "The Best Contra Line" really can't be answered. The question has to be changed to: 'Who had the the best contra line that could really be heard clearly?'. Even with this, there is no one right answer. It's all a matter of opinion. Now, with all that in mind, here are my opinions: The Best Contra Line: 1978 Rhode Island Matadors followed closely by 1989 Phantom 2003 Phantom 1987 SCV 1989 Star of Indiana 1982 Crossmen The Best Contra Solo: 1980 27th Lancers 'Open Wide'. followed by 1978 North Star 'Sir Duke'. The Best Contra Music Written But Barely Heard: 1990 Reading Bucs 'Return of the Rainmaker'. The Best Contra Made: King K-90 Well, that's my 2 cent's worth.

I'd suggest that you keep an eye on eBay. You can buy a bari or euph for about the cost of a couple months rental. Just as an example, I got a twin-valve King bari, in really good shape for $75.00!

St. Nicholas Cadets All-Girl From Egg Harbor City, NJ. Early 60's. Location: Wildwood, NJ? Both of my sisters marched.

The Commandant's Own. USMC Drum & Bugle Corps Bari Line. Year: Unknown.

Crossmen 1981. One of our drummers on the bus (Thumper). I don't remember his name...

Crossmen 1981. A day off in San Antonio, Tx. Some corps members riding in a carriage.

Crossmen 1981. Our Director. Location: Unknown

1979 Black Watch (NJ) at DCI Canada I'm the 4th contra in from the left (the tall one).

You know your an Old Phart if: Your sister who marched in St. Nick's Cadets marries a bari player from Bracken who she met at a 'contest' in Philly. Your brother-in-law tells you, "You don't need no damed rotor." You actually expect to see an American flag & Honor Guard on the field. You think of powder blue & white uniforms anytime you drive thru Audubon. You stand up at a parade and salute every American flag that goes by. That polished, well-lubed bugle sitting in the corner of your living room is twice as old as the kids marching today.

Hi Malibu, "I would love to see those San Antonio pictures!" I'll try to start posting my pics this coming weekend, but I can't promise on it. My house burned down in Jan. '00, so I don't have too many pics left, and what I do have is in a plastic storage contaner out in my shed. It'll take me a bit to dig them out, but when I do, they'll go up here. But it might only be 1 or 2 left from San Antonio. "I wasn't aware a contra didn't march after Allentown......I guess we in the guard were having our own drama." Drama is the right word for it, with a bit of soap opera stupidity thrown in. (not the guard stuff, but what happened with me). So, here's the whole, pathetic, sordid tale: Ithica, NY (7/25/81), the last show on 1st tour, was actually actually my last time performing. Due to some problems at home (my uncle had a stroke), I missed the Aug. 1 & 2 camp. In that short time I was replaced, and by (I was told) the gilrfriend of one of the other contras. So, even tho I'd busted my butt along with everyone else on 1st tour, I was never even given the chance to fight to get my spot back. Adding insult to injury, she was given my hat, neckerchief, gauntlets, sashes and cape, so I couldn't even stand in the endzone in uniform while the corps performed. Well, after a week or so of marching around behind my spot, I finally just gave up and didn't bother going out to practice one day. Jeez, did I get yelled at for that! But by that point, I really didn't care anymore. That set me up for my 'Final Fall'. Since I couldn't even stand in the endzone at a show, I pretty much got to just wander around and do nothing. Well, in Whitewater, I came across some guy selling souvies out of his car in the parking lot. He had some neat stuff, and not too expensive, so I bought 2 Bridgemen jackets. Not uniform jackets, 1 was an embroidered black corduroy winter-weight and the other was a light-weight yellow with the Bridgemen B on the front and the Bridgemen logo on the back. (I'll remember those 2 jackets as long as I live) Please keep in mind that I was a kid. Naive, I lost my spot in the corps, feeling completely alone... I wasn't exactly using much common sense around that time. You can guess where those jackets & 'souvies' came from, and you'd be right. It would take another few days before I found out. At Lansdale, we were sharing housing with Devils. One of their contras had a white satin jacket with the BD logo embroidered on the back. I traded him the heavy Bridgemen jacket for his BD jacket. While we were at the show in Boston, Robby found out that that a BD contra player was caught with a stolen Bmen jacket that he said he got from a Crossmen contra player. Well, there was only one contra player who had the time, and a reason to screw over the corps (I was told that I was paying the corps back for cutting me out of my spot). Also, remember that alot of stuff was being stolen in the corps that year, one of the bari players even had money stolen out of his bible! Well, I had traded a stolen jacket to the BD guy and I had another one in my stuff, so here's the thief! I was blamed for everything that had gone missing for the whole season! Robby and the staff (and a few corps members who were close enough to hear what was going on) were so ######-off that I couldn't get a single word in in my own defense. I was kicked out of the corps on the spot. While I was getting my stuff off the bus (Thumper), under supervision, of course, one of our drummers came by and pounded on me for a little bit. (Cymbal player who had sliced his arm open on a broken cymbal.) At some point Bmen marched past me, their drumline chanting, "Dum, de dum, de dum, YOU DIE!" Really great spot to be in. Wrongly accused; kicked out of the corps; pounded on; left in Boston to find my own way home and hunted by a bunch of ######-off Bmen. Well, I hid in the woods across from the stadium for a couple hours, then started walking, altho I had no idea where the bus station was. After a few miles, a cop picked me up, and after hearing my made up story, he drove me the 10 or so miles to the bus station. I was actually a couple of bucks short for the bus ticket home, but they let me go anyways. I did have a small laugh when my bus passed Crossmen's busses broken down on the side of the highway. But, that was really small consolation. So, that's my story, and a bit of corps history that has never been told in full until now. I suppose that I should have ended up hating the corps after that, but surprisingly, I never did. I don't know what, if any, good it will do after 24 years, but it still feels good to have finally told what really happened. That's why Allentown and any '81 first tour pics mean so much to me. They are the only good memories that I have from being in Crossmen.

Bad G-horns! That was a really nasty thing to do! Reminding me about those damed baby contras! I had one of those things, and even being a 12 year vet at the time, I couldn't get a decent sound out of it. I ended up loaning it to a fellow contra player from Bucs in '90, and never bothered asking for it back. Aside from the historical value, I don't miss it either.

Hi everyone, I've spent the past 2 days reading this thread, from pg 1 to pg 353. I want to say Thank you to everyone who has contributed. This thread, in my opinion, is a piece of drum corps history. I'd also like to offer a special Thank You to Malibu. It may have taken until pg 294 until there was a pic with me in it, but thanks to her, theres 2! I'm the center contra on the right hand side as you look at the pic. Allentown '81 was one of the last performances that I did with Crossmen. While I was still with the corps, I was not on the field for 2nd tour, so the 2 Allentown '81 pics that Malibu posted are very important to me. Anyways, I only found DCP a short time ago. I do have some pics that I'll try to find and post here. Most are 1979 Black Watch but I have a couple Crossmen from San Antonio. Again, thank you all for this thread. It's brought back quite a few memories.

OK, here's the numbers for the K-90: Height (sitting on bell) 40 1/2" Height (playing position) 24" Bell size: 19" Weight: 19 pounds w/mouthpiece Don't know what the bore size is, tho...

Blessed Sac & Bracken Cavaliers Alumni. King K-90 contra.

Getting back to the best contra line... First, let me say that I've never heard a contra line that I thought was bad. A few individual people, yeah, but never a whole line. (Of course, there have been contra lines that you can't hear at all, but hey...) Anyways, with NO insult intended to anyone, IMHO, the BEST contra line of all time was: 1978 Rhode Island Matadors and the best contra solo ever was: Open Wide, 1980 27th Lancers, followed by Sir Duke 1978 North Star. If anyone knows the contra player's names, please let me know. I'll buy them a round of whatever they're drinking!

I thought DCA, as a whole, was staying with G bugles?

Quote from: St. Raphael's Golden Buccaneers The contra bass bugle would make it's debut in 62 and St. Raphael's Dennis Banks would be one of the first hornplayers (and the first in Connecticut) to use it. He would be joined by two from the Garfield Cadets, and one each from the Hawthorne Cabaleros and USAF drum corps as "Firsts" in the nation.

Considering the date that this thread was started, I doubt anything we say at this point is gonna help the guy. But, it's still a good thread, so... In my opinion: The quality of the sound that you get is dependant on the following: 1 the 'level' of the horn; 2 the experience of the player; 3 the environment & design. 1. The level. There are Student level horns, Intermediate level horns and Professional level horns. That's going to have a big impact on what comes out of the thing. 2. The player. This ones a no-brainer. People like George Parks or Dr. Metcalf could make most any bass horn sound better than a HS freshman on a $12k Miraphone. 3. Environment & design. Where is the horn being played and is that where it was made for? A horn designed for the concert hall just can't you the best sound on a football field. The debate over contra vs. sousaphone has been going on since the contra first came out in 1962. But, it's really like comparing apples to oranges, and fiberglass 'phones being rotten apples at that. Why apples & oranges? The sousaphone was designed in 1892 as a concert bass horn. Here's the proof of that: In an interview with John Philip Sousa the Christian Science Monitor of May 30, 1922 quoted him as follows: "...the Sousaphone received its name through a suggestion made by me to J.W. Pepper, the instrument manufacturer of Philadelphia, full 30 odd years ago. At that time, the United States Marine Band of Washington, D.C., of which I was conductor, used a BBb bass tuba of circular form known as a "Helicon". It was all right enough for street-parade work, but its tone was apt to shoot ahead too prominently and explosively to suite me for concert performances, so I spoke to Mr. Pepper relative to constructing a bass instrument in which the bell would turn upwards and be adjustable for concert purposes. He built one and, greatful to me for the suggestion, called it a Sousaphone. It was immediately taken up by other instrument makers, and is today manufactured in its greatest degree of perfection by the C.G. Conn Company..." Even with the change to forward facing bells, a 'phone is designed, by the sheer size and shallowness of that bell, to spread it's sound thru a wide arc. Also, as a concert horn, it was never really intended to produce the high volumes required on the field. The contra, of course, was designed from the start for field & parade use where high volumes and maximum, narrow arc, forward projection are required. That's why a 'phone has such a wide yet shallow bell and a contra has such a deep bell. So, there' the apples to oranges theory for bass horns. Next, we'll compare pick-up trucks to SUV's. Bill

OK, here's the numbers for the K-90: Height (sitting on bell) 40 1/2" Height (playing position) 24" Bell size: 19" Weight: 19 pounds w/mouthpiece Bill

There are still a few of the big K-90's out there, and 1 sitting in the corner of my livingroom (next to 3 sops, a frenchie, 2 baris and an Olds v/r contra). Kinda makes you drool, doesn't it? LOL Anyways, I first got to try a K-90 back in '81 when I was with Crossmen. We were sharing a school with Devils in Lansdale, PA and they had their new K-90's. I've wanted one ever since that day. I THOUGHT that was going to get one in the fall of that year. I'd just graduated HS, and was going to audition for the Commandant's Own (USMC D&BC). The K-90's, aside from being the best, were also the cheapest: $2,500 w/case in 1981. I'd talked to King's sales VP and made special arrangements to buy one (they didn't sell to individuals), and my well off father PROMISED to send off a cashiers check for the horn. It was the 1st, and only thing that I'd ever asked him for. But, being the ### that he was, he never did it. I auditioned for the corps on a little 3/4 tuba from marching band, and didn't make it. None of the corps that I marched with (Black Watch, Crossmen, Bucs and now Sac) had K-90's. It would be over 20 years before I got my hands on a K-90 again. My mother passed away in Dec. of '03. I used part of the insurance money to buy a K-90 from SF Renegades. Troopers had theirs for sale at the same time, but wanted $1500 +shipping. While they were in better shape than the one I got, I just couldn't pay that much. My K-90 is in reasonable shape. It never had the 3rd valve conversion, and still has the balance and fantastic tone that made the K-90's the best ever. The one and only complaint that I have with it is that it's got the silver finish and tarnishes faster than you'd believe. Cleaning & polishing that monster is an all-day project! While I haven't gotten back out to Sac since I got the contra, I have played it with the oldest junior drum corps in America: the Bracken Cavaliers. My brother-in-law was a bari player with Bracken back in the '60's, and I help out the alumni corps. So, that's my K-90 story. Bill