ChildProdigy'89'05

I love your posts. I feel like a better person after reading them. They make me feel glad that your version of drum corps is dying and never coming back, ever.

I can't imagine the future without them. If you get there before I do you are a better man than I am.

What would DCP be like without the flying poop?

I heart Drum and Bugle Corps...today especially, or else I wouldn't do it.

I really don't lose sleep over these arguments, maybe from the actual arguing , but i love how these always end up in the round about way end up morphing into, what is a bugle? It appears that most people don't know and don't really care anyway. When adaptations were made, we just changed the definition of the word bugle to suit or own liking. Drum corps hasn't used a bugle by its actual definition in a long time, plus instruments change with time anyways. I'm really interested to here what Baroque music actually sounded, it was probably horrible because the instruments sucked. The trumpet and bugle have seen a long transformation, but they are still the same instrument. This debate can't go anywhere because we are never throwing out the word bugle anyway. When anybody who has performed on a G bugle is dead (me), no one will care where their 7 valved A flat mellophonium came from.

I could list some very poor drum corps that never amount to anything that would die to learn something from these pseudo-drum corps high school bands. The fact is, marching band and drum corps are founded on the same basis. Whatever you can teach a high school band, you can teach a drum corps, and vice versa. It's ignorant to think otherwise. Amps, vocals, and electronics are just as much as an addition to marching band as they are to drum corps. Therefore, these new things cannot be considered to belong in marching band, where they are completely unneeded to be called a marching band. Other than the instruments being played, what really is the difference between a marching band on the field and a drum corps on a field. Too many people want to place band and corps on complete opposite sides of the earth, when really, they are just opposite sides of the same coin. You can look at each side and see the difference, but you can't tell me that the two don't make up the same coin!

I kind of just posted this response in another thread about this subject. People don't understand that all brass instruments in some fashion are "bugles." Bugles (that really do sound like crap) are a simple brass instrument used for signaling and military calls. British military bugles are in Bb (gasp) with a conical bore, whereas the American bugles are more often bored cylindrically (like trumpets) an have, like the Italian type, a single valve to lower the pitch a fourth. The first 18th century bugles were semicircular. By the end of the century they were built in a single loop. The modern twice coiled pattern appearing in about 1860 From this design, the modern trumpet was beginning the same transformation. The difference between what is technically called a "bugle" and a "trumpet" can be compared to the difference between two sisters. They come from the same origin. The instruments of this period were natural trumpets, on which only the tones of the harmonic series were available. Crooks (short pieces of tubing) were invented and were used to lengthen or shorten the trumpet so it could be used to play more notes. In 1815, the valve was invented which made crooks unnecessary. Now, the trumpet could play any note of the scale by using the valves. Basically, the only difference is not the key the instrument is in. It's the shape of the bore.

amps, vocals, and electronics do not define marching band, and therefore, they do not come into play. Marching band also had to change. IMO, marching band is also a victim of bad taste , not just drum corps. marching band and drum corps are evolving at the same rate because they are very very very very very closely related to each other. What we are noticing is how both activities are actually becoming even more related. This isn't because DCI is copying the marching band format necessarily, it's because the actual format of the activity is changing too. The only difference between a corps and band is the use of woodwinds. If woodwinds enter drum corps, then it will become a marching band. All I'm trying to say is that if you took a high school marching band and swapped their instruments for some precious "G bugles" they would indistinguishable from a corps (although now, drum corps allow the key of the instrument to be in Bb, yet they are still bugles). Amps and such don't define the marching tradition in any way, so they can't be lumped into the box: "marching bandish" or "non-drum corpish." Secondly, a trumpet is a bugle; the same with all brass instruments. A trumpet in G is a soprano. A tuba is G is a contrabass. It annoys me when the people who play these instruments are shocked and offended by occasionally being called a tuba or a trumpet. Get over it, it's still a tuba and it's still a trumpet, and it's still a bugle. People will argue my point, but its the truth. Plus if they looked in a dictionary, they would be shocked to realize that their precious "its only a bugle if its in G" bugles were originally developed in Bb!

I propose that marching band be eradicated off the face of the earth. That way, drum corps will have nothing to evolve from and it will finally thrive! oh wait.... Lets start the analysis between marching band and drum corps by building each one at the same time. 1. we'll start with the percussion section. Let's say 9 snares, 4 tenors, 5 basses, 4 cymbals. this goes to group one and 2 2. let's add the colorguard. Let's say 30 members each. this goes to group one and 2 3. How about the front ensemble. We won't mic them just to save some money. this goes to group one and 2 4. let's give them a drum major too. this goes to group one and 2 Now, which group is the drum corps? sorry we can't tell yet. We still have one crucial element that i forgot. 5. let's give them each a wind section. this goes to group one and 2 6. Let's give them music to play and lets give the guard some equipment and work. this goes to group one and 2 Now which one is the drum corps? ohh, i forgot to mention which types of winds. 7. we'll give each group a brass section so they can play loud exciting music. Now? 8. group 2 gets woodwinds and group one just gets more brass. Now? OK now you can finally tell. 9. how about we switch the woodwinds into group one. Now what? 10. how about we switch the percussion sections. 11. and swap the colorguards. 12. both groups get a drill. 13. switch drum majors 14. let's send them to competitions to get judged by their performance. 15. tell some of the brass in group one to go to group two. do we get the point? A marching band is identified by these things: drums, guard, pit, drum major, drill, brass, woodwinds A drum corps is identified by these things: drums, guard, pit, drum major, drill, brass the only difference is the instrumentation of the winds. amps, vocals, and electronics don't have to come into play. I marched in a marching band, then I marched in a corps and a marching band, then I taught a marching band with the skills I learned from marching in a drum corps and a marching band, those kids I taught are marching in a marching band, then they started marching in a corps and a marching band, using the same skills they learned and what i taught them in both. saying a drum corps is a marching band is wrong. saying a marching band is a drum corps is wrong. saying that they are not in the same box or within in the same activity is wrong. your ignorance is laughable if you decide to prove otherwise. they are not the same thing, just slightly different versions of the same thing, that both have evolved from military usage to a competitive venue. duh

I want to see more DCA response and opinions. Please follow the link and give us your two cents. http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=109186

Absolutely, but I have noticed that a considerable amount of disrespect is often payed to the mallet players. This disrespect is basically from professional players who don't believe in that type of playing. That's just my guess as to one reasons the execs made the change.

Yeah, I cringed when I noticed I forgot that option.

With every intention of not starting an off topic discussion, any horn with valves is not a bugle in the first place. Bugles left the activity when these modifications were added. A lot of people in this activity never really were present when drum and bugle corps lived up to it's literal meaning. I honor your view though because G does rule even if I like the Bbs!

that seals the deal for any doubters out there.

Thanks for making this a positive thread guys! We learn better this way.

It's definitely not the same Canon in D that everybody hears at weddings and such. Pachabel wrote more than one canon in D, although the piece is actually called "sanctus" Here is a true version of the piece. Every bit as spine tingling!

I do know that. I just assume some changes are for the better. Not to mention that I did forget to list my own preference in the poll. There are a lot of combinations. And if you don't prefer any of the selections, please state what you wish drum corps was today.

those are nice bumps

I prefer/don't mind... * Bb horns--darker and yet more brilliant sound than G, its more symphonic. +plus easier to play. (G is all good though ) * Amplified front ensemble--players can play with better technique because they don't have to hack, plus it will bring in more talent, that I am sure. Professionals don't endorse sloppy hacking. I have never heard vocals in any marching band or drum corps show that have sounded like they belonged there. I think this should fall under the category of: Does not sound nice/wrong idiom. It's just not conducive to sounding pleasant at all. Somehow, if it's not amped, I don't mind it at all (Boston 2000). *Electronic Instruments--they are a part of music as it is. They will be a part of any ensemble you will find. Electronic instruments do not have "fake" sounds, they are created like any other sound if you break down what sound actually is. Plus, it is still instrumental. However, the over reliance on these instruments will sound tacky and uncharacteristic of a true symphonic sound. Music at it's highest level is in the symphony orchestra. They aren't replacing instruments with electronic ones, yet the use of an electronic instrument can still be acceptable. Drum corps needs to find an acceptable use for them, so they aren't masking or clouding what the actual instrumentation is (brass and percussion), or make anything sound corny, just like an orchestra would do. I hope that makes sense. *Instrumentation is limited to brass and percussion instruments--drum corps instrumentation is brass and percussion, electronics can produce woodwind sounds, but that would cloud the actual instrumentation. Adding anything besides brass and percussion will make it not be drum corps. If you add a string section to a concert band, it is no longer a concert band, it is an orchestra. *Players should be able to learn how to make their instrument effective for themselves. Brass instruments have always projected just fine, amping the brass is unnecessary, as they were conceived in order to play out doors anyway. Design wise, I want to see... 4. Integrated Colorguard--I think guards are being stressed more and more, but I'm losing them. They need to integrated with the horns more, and have standard equipment. I think they need to be less spread out and in and around shapes and forms more closely. My favorite guard moment ever is in Phantom 04, where the guard fills in the heart shape. More of those moments need to happen. 3. A long ### drum solo with a groove--It's why people like them, kudos Cavaliers 2. New Visual Moments--Things like the ladders in Cavies 05, 07 Crown, Just great displays of talent and creativity. I wish these could be more limited in shows honestly, to use ideas conservatively. Then they will be more special and memorable. 1. Musically Dominant shows--I also would love to leave a show and be able to remember what I heard, even if I have never heard it before. Phantom 03

if you can name a corps that has come so close, and through several horrible decisions has become completely and utterly useless....

bump this thread to keep it in view, the more people who vote, the better the results

haha, try your hardest.

Since DCA posters seem generally concerned with the new DCI rule changes, here is a link to a topic I created in the DCI discussion group. It is basically a poll that covers several "versions" and "stages" of drum corps through the years and which you would prefer. Have fun! keep bumping this thread if you want to see more peoples opinions and votes! http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;#entry2136592

In case you didn't notice the topic, here is the link to it: http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...p;#entry2136592

What does the typical spectator or participant want to see in the activity? I want to find out what direction people want to see drum corps move in or stay in. If your criteria for your vision of the activity is not exactly as it is found on the list, please list your specifications. This topic should contain posts about what you WANT to see in the activity, not what you DON'T WANT to see!! I am very interested in the results. Note: A "specific program" is a show with a clear theme (Phantom of the Opera, Spin Cycle, etc.), while a non-specific program would entail no main theme.