Brad T.

To mirror a lot of the posts here, change is bad when it's quickly and drastically applied against the popular opinion of the masses. An example I like is the Ohio State University Marching Band. The band was formed in 1878 as a fife and drum corps. It became a standard marching band shortly after, and by the early 1900 was put under control of the ROTC program. By 1934, woodwind instruments were removed from the band, making it all brass. In 1936, they started doing the trademark Script Ohio. In 1940, trombones were replaced by valved trombonium horns. The next changes occurred in the 1960s when more popular music, instead of traditional marches started to be played. Then in the 1970s, women were allowed, as well as a large expansion of the band. The uniforms changed very little until the 1980s, when color highlights were added. Trombones were re-added in the 1980s. In the late 1990s, the Eb alto horns were replaced by F mellophones, and bass trombones were added to the trombone line. In 2006, the bass drum line was upgraded from two tone to four tone basses. The band still wears the same style uniform, without major changes, has the same basic instrumentation, and still does not have a full time pit or color guard/drill team. These changes were hard to make because of the alumni, who have to vote on all changes to the band. These alumni know what tradition is and how to keep things new while still maintaining the same basic style. Going back to drum corps: I feel that changes can be made to some point before it no longer is drum corps. That line was crossed years ago though. The name of the activity is Drum and Bugle Corps. Drums are percussion, pit equipment includes drums and pitched percussion. Since it is a form of percussion, it's ok to me. I personally don't know much about guard activities, but it adds to the show on the field and is a vital part of the entire show atmosphere. Bugle, in the drum corps definition, is a morphing term. A dictionary will tell you a bugle is a brass instrument with no valves. In the drum corps perspective, it became a brass instrument with a conical bore in the key of G, or Bb in the case of some of the Canadian corps. When the change to any key occurred, bugles, the other fundamental half of the activity, ceased to exist. Sure, in corps themselves, you still have the terms soprano, contra, etc. However, trumpets and marching tubas are not sopranos and contras in the traditional respect. As such, drum corps even with Bb horns are drum and marching brass ensembles. Now with electronics, which have, in my opinion, no use, and woodwinds, which are not sturdy, stable, or loud enough in small numbers to be useful on a marching field, the entire fabric of the activity has changed. I've been to a few marching band competitions with some very good clarinet and saxophone lines, but their numbers were equal or greater than that of the brass. Either brass numbers are going to have to be cut, or more spots will need to be added. Either way, DCI is a great place for young men and women to expand their talents and abilities, and to do what they thought might be impossible. However, care must, and should have been taken to make sure the past was not forgotten. These days, Drum, Wind, & Electronics Corps are nothing what they used to be. I didn't like the change to Bb, but I can live with that - it's still brass. Woodwinds and electronics are just a step too far. Next step is probably a merger with Bands of America. Then you can have two different championships: the school based Autumn championships and the summer touring championships. Opening up a BOA/DCI merger would mean some high schools could, in fact start competitive touring shows all summer long instead of just during their Autumn season. Whether that's a good idea or not is not my place. Conversely, it also opens up current and future drum corps being based out of schools, allowing for facility use without huge rental fees or whatnot. So, with all that, change = ok in small doses.

At the ripe old age of 22 (rolls eyes) I have started marching DCA for the first time. I never marched DCI. I wanted to in high school, but when you grow up in a bad part of town and both parents work to send you to a Catholic high school that's about $7,000 a year at the time, there is no money left for drum corps. I was from Cleveland, and realized that there was a DCI corps some people may have heard of (insert sarcasm :) ) down the highway in Canton. I looked around on their website at the tuition costs, and immediately ruled it out. My senior year of high school I was approached by someone on behalf of the Marion Cadets about performing with them at no cost. However that year they wound up not marching and haven't performed since. I do wish I could have marched DCI. If for nothing more than to just say I did. In my current DCA corps, everyone aside from the newest high school kids who have never marched before (which is about 4 or so), have marched DCI or Jr. corps some time in their life. Many are alums of Pride of Cincinnati and Queen City Cadets. Others marched with some of the bigger names that are still around today (Blue Coats, Cru, Blue Stars, Cadets, etc.), and a few have returned to DCA after marching DCI because of financial reasons. It's all so new I don't know what to expect! However, the shear fact we got through one song's drill in an afternoon was impressive to say the least!

I guess I should rephrase what I meant in the post about resenting his opinion. I felt that what he said was sort of like saying that only good corps march Bb horns. Some of us prefer G and aren't in it to be the top dog. I do DCA because I think its fun. Not because I'm trying to get top score or personally compete. This year we are trying very hard to do Class A at DCA in Rochester. If we do it, great! If we don't, it's not that big of a deal to me. If we do it and get dead last, like our mini corps score last year, that's fine too. I plan to do I&E, no matter how good or bad I sound (and I don't think I sound all that good... but that's neither here nor there). So my only issue was with the way his point about Bb corps being the only "good" ones. *If that was even his point at all.* Heh, maybe one day I will be one of those 40 year old men with a horn in one hand and an adult beverage in the other... Contras take two hands... so maybe I'll get a Camelbak "adult beverage hydration system"

When I started at Tradition, we had one soprano who played a Bb trumpet and one who played, of all things, a C trumpet. If one person here or there chooses to play a Bb/C/F/Eb/Brown Note horn, that's fine. But I have my own contra, granted with some mechanical issues I need to save up and fix, and I want to use it. If I want to play a Bb horn, I'll join the athletic band of the university I attend/work at, and honk away on a Sousaphone. If I want to play my C tuba, I'll join said university's concert band, or a community band. If I want to play my G contra, I have two options, TubaChristmas and DCA. One of these lasts all year, the other does not. Granted I could play my contra in the university athletic band, however I'd be asked to leave, since said university takes great pride in Sousaphones and has a marching band that gives high praises to Sousaphone players who perform certain on-field rituals that include being the dot at the top of a lowercase letter "i" in a script-form marching maneuver. G horns are completely different animals, it's like apples and kumquats. Then you could break the G vs Bb discussion down even further by just turning it into 3v vs. 2v, 2v vs. p/r, chrome vs. silver, etc. etc. With Bb you get the standard setup: silverplate, 3 valves (4 on some contras), and F mellophones. Is it possible that the horns actually have an effect on the score? Absolutely. Anyone can take the field with a Bb marching instrument and play. However, the art and skill of learning, adapting, and growing by learning a completely new instrument is somewhat lost in a Bb line. To take what amounts to a chrome bumper and create beautiful music and rich chords is an art in and of itself. Everything is easier when the pitches of the horns are the same as your high school/college marching band or concert band. Anyway, I digress... I'd still pick DCA over DCI, unless... I didn't have to pay anything to do DCI. The fees are the absolute worst part. DCA, in general, is much more affordable. If I was of age still and money was not an issue, I'd do DCI for the experience of it. Not because of Bb horns or who has the highest scores or coolest uniforms. I'd do it just for the bus-rides, gym floor beds, crazy tans, and trips to places I've never been. That is part of the drum corps experience I cannot get now, and something I will never be able to contribute as learned experience to my DCA corps. So no matter how many years I do DCA, I will always be behind, because I never had the junior corps experience. I was reminded of that at our last rehearsal, not intentionally, but it is a sticking point. Aside from the brand new high school kids, I'm the only member of my corps past the age-out age that has never marched junior corps. Maybe if I did, I'd have a different opinion. But then I am reminded of the phrase: "If 'if's' and 'but's' were candy and nuts..."

Here's my view sticking with the OT: I've just started, at age 22, in "senior" corps. I never had the money, time, talent, or physical fitness needed to do DCI when I was of age. This past Sunday, in a 6 hour outdoor rehearsal, my corps marched through 22 sets of drill to complete our opening piece. Time and weather were not on our side, and so playing through the drill did not happen. However, 22 sets of drill don't easily get accomplished unless the work ethic and dedication of every member of the group is as high as possible. Last year, when I joined Cincinnati Tradition, our numbers were few and I was the youngest. This year, with active searching and recruiting, we've opened the corps to local high schools. We have many 16 and 17 year olds marching corps for the first time. Sure, many of these young people will go on to DCI, but some may not, especially if we give them a reason to return season after season. I personally resent the statement by the OP starting that his view of DCA has changed more or less because many of the top DCA corps are on Bb horns. When I discovered that there was an all-age corps in Ohio, one of the first questions out of my mouth was: "Do you play on G bugles?" When the response was "Yes" I was ready to join. DCA, being the older competition group, should always allow corps to keep tradition alive. After getting involved with a DCA corps, I've realized that there is a lesser impact (on time, wallet, and physical well being) way to march drum corps. I'm not saying we are lazy by any means. If I had the ability now to pick between DCI and DCA, I'd still pick DCA, mainly because of the G bugles. I don't care if they are 3 valve, 2 valve, or piston/rotor, a drum and bugle corps should march with bugles, and not "marching brass." If I ever move out of Ohio or something, and discover that there is another DCA corps near me, my first question will be: "Do you march or allow G bugles?" If they say no, they won't be having me!

BigDale, this situation isn't one of those "check the nut behind the mouthpiece" issues where the player ie. me, is at fault. I have no problems playing on my Meinl Weston 2145, any crappy Sousaphone, or the Kanstul contra my other section member bought. This horn is just really stuffy in the low end. I think that's why I'm able to play such loud false tones. I tried the same false tones on the Kanstul horn with not much luck. I need to buy a horn snake (though music stores are not easy to come by in this city) as well as give the horn another bath and try blowing it out with the air compressor. I haven't had a chance to play it since I realigned the valves, however it is a pain in the rear to try and trim the pads when instead of felt, they are rubber...

Will have to try that, I know I heard something rattle while I was working on it. And I highly doubt it was the loose bell thumb screw since I have the bell off. Does anyone know if DEG still has the saddle shaped braces, or would I have to see if someone like Kanstul can fabricate one?

I never noticed the valve cluster. My horn is in fact a Willson, that is "Swiss Made." Just went through and aligned the ports on my valves and checked once again for leaks. No leaks from any of the slides, valves, or the horn itself. I have a magnetic metal base to put a CB antenna on, and it was wide enough to cover the exit of the horn (after I removed the bell that is). There are zero air leaks. However there are three dents of "concern," one on the first valve tubing, the other two very close to each other on the main tubing right underneath the bell.

This horn is the 4/4 size 3 piston contra. It is on the smaller side and compactly wound. I tried both my standard Helleberg and my Loud LM5, and I get far more sound from the horn from the LM5. Of course, using a Loud brand mouthpiece on the Kanstul horn my corps' other contra player just picked up was a bit overkill. I could see the paint peeling off of the walls! His horn is one of the older models described above, with the very narrow bore and the huge bell flare. I likened playing that horn to playing a large contrabass trombone with valves. I've been told in the past by my old tuba professor that a decent way to check port alignment is with a dental mirror. However it just seems those mirrors would be too wide to fit in the valve casings, unless there's a secret trick...

HornsUp, When did Dynasty move the contra production to Willson? The horn I have still has the "old" style DEG logo and, for lack of a better term, saddle-shaped braces. Also, what is the best way to check the port alignment? without really having a straight shot to the valves, it seems hard to do. I've done port alignments on trumpets, concert baritones, and Sousaphones - pretty much anything where the slide arrangement allows easy line of sight into the valves. Thanks for the responses so far everyone, also, does Dynasty still supply the saddle-shaped braces? I know there is one missing from my horn.

Like I said, I'm not expecting miracles, but I witnessed something close to a miracle with my concert tuba a few years ago. I bought a Meinl Weston 2145, 5 valve CC tuba. I bought it from Baltimore Brass, which is run by David Fedderly - Principal Tubaist of the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra. He told me about some secret tweaks that he did to his 2145 that made it play like a brand new horn. I went ahead and let him tweak my tuba, and sure enough, completely different horn. Obviously things can be done, I just don't know what. Perhaps boreing the leadpipe/tuning slide and valve cluster tubing? It boils down to, I want to be able to play loud in the low range of the horn without all of the backpressure. No matter how much air I put in, it just seems to disappear. I've checked for leaks and there are none.

So I recently purchased an old Dynasty M378 contra, and while I have no major complaints with the horn, it's really stuffy in the low range. I can't even get out pedal tones, but yet somehow can loudly play a written pedal F (the pedal C on a CC tuba) in tune with no valves. At any rate, one of my fellow contra players in my corps picked up a rough-around-the-edges Kanstul contra, and even with sticky valves and stuck slides, the responsiveness, especially in the low range, was amazing. I'm looking to get this contra opened up a little, if it's possible. I own a Dynasty II soprano that was modified and opened up that plays awesome, so I know it's possible to get Dynasty horns to sound good. My contra also has some dents, loose braces, and one missing brace. What can be done to this horn to make it less stuffy and more responsive? Is there anyone local to the Ohio area that still works on bugles and knows how to tweak them? Any the following responses, while funny and sadly true, are not viable options: 1. Buy a Kanstul G contra. 2. Buy a K-90 with 3 valve conversion. 3. Buy a Bb contra. I have a limited budget that will not allow for plunking down more money on another contra. Thanks all!

Columbus, Ohio

After some careful electrical taping, it appears that I have two leaks: one around the water key nipple, and one past the water key where the leadpipe goes into the larger diameter pipe for the tuning slide. This horn is an Olds Ultratone, so I doubt the horn originally had any factory defects, however, judging by the plating scars and discolorations, my solder job was nowhere near the first one done to this horn. My biggest problem thus far is trying to get the solder to flow into the tiny tiny space between the leadpipe and tuning slide outer pipe to fill in that leak. Oh well, black electrical tape does wonders.

Well, I only burned myself once, and that wasn't even direct from the flames, I just brushed my knuckles up against a piece of the horn I just put back together. So some Neosporin and bandages, mixed with plenty of airing too and I'll be fine. By the time I was ready to solder the braces, some light playing with the braces yielded my entire leadpipe coming off. Got all of the braces put back on. Not the best looking job, but if you saw the horn, you'd understand. Now I just need to find a water key pad, and figure out why there's a leak coming from the water key area that I can't stop by taping over the hole...

Sounds good to me! I worked in a music store with a small repair shop back in high school, and the repair tech used to show me how to do various things. It's something I've been hugely interested in for a long time. I also know that for brass horns you never, EVER, use anything bigger than a pocket butane torch, or you risk heating everything up and having all of the solder joints come apart.

What type of solder is preferred for repairing loose braces on a horn? And, what is an acceptable type? I've heard silver solder is preferred, but lead solder without a rosin core can be used. I picked up a P/R soprano that isn't even in "lamp" condition currently. I liken it to "Applebee's wall hanger" condition. I'm going to use it to learn how to solder and repair braces. I have a general idea, but I was practicing on another person's beater horn so care was not taken :) Thanks in advance!

To me the golden years ended in 2000. When bugles were dropped in favor of bell-front marching brass in Bb and F, the activity just became "Summer Traveling Marching Band" to me. The horns of today don't require anywhere near the talent or physical dexterity as the bugles of yesterday. The marching brass is designed to be fairly loud and in tune. G bugles, especially the P/R horns, were built to just peel the skin off your face. The talent it takes to control the tone and volume and intonation while playing a chrome bumper is a feat the kids today who have never played bugles will never understand or respect. Imagine if, one day, your DCI corps of choice decided to have one rehearsal with a hornline full of P/R honkers. The corps would go from sounding amazing to being completely out of tune, or just having some kids not playing while they spend half of rehearsal trying to figure out how to hold the thing. To me, DCI prior to 2000 made better musicians. All of them learned a new instrument, learned many new playing techniques, and when fall returned, they had a much better appreciation for their marching and concert band instruments. Today, only people who play woodwinds during the school year and trombonists are the only groups that really have to learn a new instrument. Everyone else can take their fingering charts and engrained musical prowess and play without any major changes necessary. Even three valved G bugles are bears to play. It's nothing close to playing a concert tuba or Sousaphone, and while my only experience with Bb contras was in high school on the Dynasty 845 convert-a-tuba, it still doesn't come close.

That's perfect for an SATB score. SATB = Soprano, Alto, Tenor, Bass choir sheet music.

I know the bass line is correct, but the Ab in chord 3, with an F in the soprano voice, plus the Gb in the bass on chord 5 with an E natural in the soprano voice throw me off a lot. I know that chord 1 is a I, and chords 6, 7, and 8, in order, are a I6, V7, and I. I think there may be a IV chord in there as well, but I don't know. And if any of the chords wind up being secondary dominants, I'll never figure those out. That's as much as someone who failed out of music theory can really do. That someone being me...

Years ago a friend gave me a CD with some random drum corps audio on it. One of the songs is an excerpt of some hornline exercises and a tuning chorale. When opened in Windows Media Player, the file's info claims it to be The Cadets - Exercise #13 and Fat Andy Chords. I'm looking for some help with the "Fat Andy" chords. Does anyone have the chord progression for this chorale? I only ask because I've played this chorale more times than I can count. I recognize it from the Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-Pedal F-Bb bass line progression. Ohio State University's marching and pep bands use this chorale as a warmup all the time. I just wish I knew the chord progression, because I always thought it was a sweet sounding chorale.

All are great ideas, except my skills with music theory and aural skills are non-existant. I should know, I'm a former music education major. I dropped the major because I kept failing theory and aural. Both of those things, which are key to writing scores by ear, are things I just can't do. I can pick out melodies and sometimes write it correctly, but anything below that, including basslines, which is what I usually only play, are things I just can't pick out by listening to a song. The inner harmonies and counter-melodies are the worst for me. I should know, I've been trying to play along with/arrange parts of the 89 Phantom Show since the early 00s when I was in high school. Any arranging I do is based off of music scores I have or MIDI files that I import and then re-voice and clean up. Guess I need to find a way to contact Jim Wren and shell out my life savings for a copy of something from 20 years ago...

I'm wondering if anyone can help me locate an electronic copy (scanned, Finale-ed, MIDI-ed) of Phantom Reg's 1989 New World Symphony show. I'm trying to teach myself how to arrange for bugles, especially two valved versions, as the drum corps I'm in still uses a lot of two valved equipment. If anyone can help me locate all, some, or parts of the 1989 Phantom show, I'd really be appreciative!

Simply put, this is my first season ever being in a drum corps. I've wanted to do it for years, but time and money prevented me from doing DCI, and now I'm too old, so I found a close by DCA corps to march with. I've seen plenty of discussion and videos about the DCA Individual & Ensemble contest. How does it work? Like how does one sign up to perform a solo? Is there specific music that must be played? Pretty much I was looking for all the info I possibly could find!

Ideally I'm looking for two Phantom Regiment shows that are hugely famous. New World Symphony 1989 and Firebird Suite 1978. These were two of the first drum corps shows I've ever heard (even though they are well before my time) and are the two I'm most familiar with. I know from Youtube that the 78 show was done on piston/rotors which makes it all the more unbelieveable to me. So if anyone can help with those two shows, I would be forever grateful!