BRASSO

I looked, but I didn't see any bananas at INT last year. I think INT should have a bunch of 'em... Couldn't hurt.

Good retort.... and a reminder for all of us to try and stay on topic ( myself included ). There should be " no problem " for ANY of us to be reminded of this from time to time. And we ALL do go off topic from time to time, which is understandable. An innocuous reminder by other posters should the comment have nothing at all to do with the thread topic should not be taken as a " What's the problem ? " reply either, it seems to me.

Thread comments back and forth between posters that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic. What do" infrastructure costs"..," school revenues"...," parents as squeaky wheels ".., and blah blah blah ,have to do with this thread topic ?

INT had nobody show up for their Nov. camp audition. But not to worry,.. this is nothing new for them.

......... and..... this has what to do again with the thread topic ?

It has been reported that on July 5th. 1998 in a DCI show in the midwest, the Corps got an unheard of non perfect Brass Tech. score of 9.90. However, with the financial and emotional support of DCI, that brass judge was immediately inserted into the United States Federal Witness Protection Program and rumors have it the judge is living out his life peacefully somewhere outside the outskirts of Montevideo, Uruguay.

Yes, I can understand units in the " Drum Corps " realm being referred to as " Brass Bands " or even " Bugle Bands ". In fact, we've had" The Memphis Blues Brass Band " ( 80's ) compete in DCI and before that ( and current today ) " the Scout House Bugle Band ". These units are rightly in the " Drum and Bugle Corps " idiom, as the instrumentation utilized are mostly " Brass ", or " Bugles ". However, it would more appropriate ( and more accurate ) to refer to musical units that have singers with microphones and/ or electric guitar players accompanied by a sitting drummer on a combo drum set, large electric bass speakers, and with dancers in the background and with trumpets playing, etc as a " Marching Band ". ( although I do understand that with the guitar players and drummer on the combo set not " marching " at all, a case might be made that such a unit is not a true " MARCHING Band " )

I don't think however that one can make a compelling case that " we can start calling "band".... "drum corps ". I'm not close minded to that. I'm open to persuasion on that. But I just don't see how one can make a compelling case that a musical organization that calls itself a " Marching Band " that is out there, is really NOT a " Marching Band ", but it is actually a " Drum and Bugle Corps". However, if one wants to show me a unit that calls itself a " Marching Band " that in the DCP poster's view is misnamed as a musical unit, and should instead be correctly called a " Drum and Bugle Corps"..... or even easier..... " a Drum Corps ", then I'm prepared to become persuadable with examples of such. I have heard of " Brass Band ". But I'm not familiar with ANY musical organization that calls itself a " Marching Band " have folks that do not see it as a " Marching Band " at all, but see it more as a " Drum and Bugle Corps". The measure of the definition is rightly determined primarily by instrumentation utilized,... and secondarily, with how the musical sound of the unit is projected to an audience, it would seem to me. Thus, I can see where a unit that calls itself a " Drum Corps " can be more correctly be seen in the " Marching Band " realm. I can see little to no confusion however when a unit that calls itself " Marching Band " others believe should correctly be called a " Drum and Bugle Corps", or even a " Drum Corps ". There is no confusion in this case . As such, it probably has never arisen as an issue as to ....".what exactly is the unit anyway ?" type questions.

I'm not advocating that camera's become the chief way the visual judges judge a show. I can envision the day however where judges use the computer camera as a supplement to the judges eye vision. I could see a judge deciding that he or she would like to look at portions of the show quickly again, or to fast forward to a visual portion of the show where that judge's view was perhaps obstructed for one reason or another, or perhaps he was watching one visual move, and could not adequately evaluate another visual move taking place simultaneously. Judges would not be compelled to use such visual aids. The naked eye will still be the primary lens upon which the judge will evaluate the visual show. But I do believe that the naked eye of the judge will also some day have the resource lens of the computer as a supplemental aid that the judge can use as they see fit that can act as a means to more effectively judge the visual performance. But only time will tell who's right or not on this prediction of mine.

The main problem with this might be you are asking the judge to go back in memory ( or read previous notes ) to a Corps that performed much earlier in the competition. That said, I would be for delayed scoring in theory, and see it as an improvement in scoring Corps after each performance. One other thought...... It seems to me that erventually the Visual Caption judges will have access to computers in their booth to video replays. I don't see this as a matter of " if ", but of " when ". The judges will be able to fast forward, pause, rewind, etc portions of performances on their computer screen so that their eye can further take in visual designs to ascertain perfections and imperfections, and also to see portions of the show that they missed originally, because their eye was on another set or another visual component of the show.. I see this transition as inevitable. Judges need to be brought into the new technology age where paper, pencil, and old tape recorders are a thing out of the 70's and 80's.... not the 21st century.

When we go on DCP to " DCI World Class Corps Dicussions ", we can scroll down to the very bottom of the page to the Advertisement section . What do we find ? An Advertisement for " MARCHING BAND GIFTS ". Advertisers know their customers, and their market better than anyone. Except for perhaps current marchers themselves. ( ie Carolina Crown current marcher)

Some of these ideas have merit and would seem make the system more transparent and fairer to all the Corps. The problem as I see it, is that the collective bargaining position of the judging fraternity within DCI would probably be opposed to such changes. It would make the judging comparisons between Corps they would have to make with these changes more difficult for sure. So I doubt we'd see the Judges sign off on it, and thus it seems like a non starter, although some great ideas here, Bob.

Everyone probably has in their own view when it became "Marching Band". I recognize that there are still some that hold firm that these are still" Drum and Bugle Corps" too. And that's fine and their perogative. For me, when DCI allowed guitar players with plugged in guitars in field competition, and singers with microphones, ( as just 2 examples ) that clearly signified " Band " for all intents and purposes.... in my opinion anyway. When Bob Dylan replaced his stringed folk guitar with an electric guitar and plugged that electric guitar into an outlet with big bass speakers, he didn't tell his fans his band was still a " Folk Music Band " and still doing " Folk Music ". It was clear he was now into the musical realm of " Rock Music "..... not " Folk Music ". His band now became a " Rock Band. "The notion that several plugged in guitars in competition is still " Drum and Bugle Corps " seems to be asking for more lattitude than should be warranted as well. If the musical unit has musicians that play guitars....It's a " Band " it seems to me.

Camp auditions were so packed, doors were locked and even Tareq and Michaele Salahi couldn't get in.

when they perform.... no chairs, no fall downs. The judges ? They've been known to fall down out of their chairs with the performance.

And his point you believe that I missed was.......... ?

Hmnn... We never see college or Pro sports fans arguing with one another on sports message boards , and making dumb or lame comments ? Or people arguing about politics on a Current Events message board and some saying dumb things ? Or Celebrity discussion message boards etc. ? Only on Marching Music message boards do we see dumb things or lame things said ?

No apology neccessary to me ( nor to the Carolina Crown member) kickhaltsforlife. You are free to call these" Drum and Bugle Corps "even, if you want. It's no big deal. And others of us can " call'em as we see'em " as well !

I hear you. But I let the DCI judges assign what " effects " them generally the best in a show performance. That is in their domain. I assign what " effects " me generally the best in a DCI show. That is in MY domain. I don't give that up to the DCI judges. Nor to anyone else. This is why the DCI judges and I get along usually pretty well. I leave after most shows and before the scores are announced. They don't want to know what we the fans think of a performance. So why should I care what THEY think ? They don't factor the audience response into the changed " General Effect " captions of today anymore.. And my " placement " enjoyment level rarely coincides with that of the judges anyway. And that's fine. But I don't need a judge to tell me what was entertaining or not. I already know what performance(s) were the most captivating for me.. So I generally leave after the show performances.... although sometimes I 'll stay for the encore performances.

And to be fair,I do recognize the difference between the DCI " Marching Band " and the typical High School and College " Marching Band " that is out there. ( although the lines are getting more blurred it seems to me with each passing year ). I also believe that the Carolina Crown member understands the difference as well between the University " Marching Band " she is a member of, and her marching experience in DCI that she describes as likewise in the " Marching Band " realm. I still think many of these DCI Marching Bands do lots of hip and cool things, more so than a lot of College and High School Bands currently do. Otherwise, I wouldn't still be following the activity and going to shows.

The term " Marching Band " is NOT in of itself a pjorative term. It is a neutral term. What one assigns to that, is there own personal judgement. That is based upon personal experiences, and personal perceptions.. But it seeems to me that if a musical unit has guitars, singers, solo and entourage dancers, synthesizers, amplifyers, voice overs , narrators, etc it would be a " Band "..... if the members " March " a portion of the show ( ie " " march " meaning members having uniform movements in step ) than it would seem to me that the unit is a " Marching Band ". " Drum and Bugle Corps " could be described as such because " Drums " and " Bugles " made up the vast number of instruments in the unit. A " Guard " was an adjunct.... and auxilllary back up component to the " Drums" and "the Bugles " in the musical unit. When a musical unit goes beyond the Percussive and Brass elements, and utilizes Guard as featured elements in the presentation, with Persussion and Brass sharing equal weight with Dance, the musical unit identification naturally changes. Furthermore, when guitars are added, singers are added, trumpets replace bugles, sound synthesizers are added to augment sound, and brass and percussion are co components in the show presentation, the unit(s) can be correctly termed " Marching Band ". The fact that SOME elements of the " Drums ", ie Drum and Bugle Corps are retained does not mean that these new units do not fall more appropriately into the " Marching Band " realm. At least this is how I would decribe these units today. And again, the term DCI " Marching Bands " is not ( in my mind ) a pjorative term connoting a negative at all. It just describes in my view what these units are. And I like some of these DCI " Marching Bands " too.

Agree. The OP got all bent out of shape because a marcher from Carolina Crown said in a DCI interview that what she does in the summer is like " Marching Band ". No big deal. Besides, she is accurate in her comments anyway.

"Sounds good", but there were fewer Corps in 2009 than in the early 70's when DCI took over. That's just a fact. And it is also a fact that DCI changed the regional competitive touring model to a national touring model and under their encouragement and auspices. It is also a fact that under DCI 's watch , the acceleration of the decline of the number of Corps and marching youth took place. More youth marched in a DCI afiliated Corps in 1979 than in 2009. DCI did not reverse the trend of lost Corps. When they took over, they ACCELERATED it. And so now we have come to " Marching Bands ".... cool " Marching Bands " with elements of the former Drum and Bugle Corps still intact.... but " Marching Bands ", nonetheless in my opinion. But why quibble, and why get upset with the marcher from Carolina Crown ? She should be able to call it what it is without rancor. Especially when she is accurate. And why would those who marched in Drum Corps want their unit, their experiences, to be confused with those units that now have guitars, singers, synthesizers, faux sound amplifyers and recreators, etc anyway ? Viva La Difference.

I agree that DCI has developed " the rise of the competitive Band world replacing the smaller Corps. I called these " Marching Bands " several pages back. The girl from Carolina Crown was right on the money when she said that what she does in the summer is like " Marching Band ". Why would anyone not call it" Band" if it has singers, dancers, guitars, synthesizers, and when it's members come from " Band ", and when most of it's shows ( including Phantom's this coming year ) come right out of creativity found in " Bands ". If others want to wait until we have violins, saxophones, etc I can understand that. But when electric guitars are out front in a competitive unit in competition, how can one NOT call this a " Marching Band " ? ( even if the guitar players do not march at all ) And so noone misunderstands this, I LIKE some of these DCI " Marching Bands ".

No, it was never seen by DCI as their mission at all. So when many Corps went broke on the National Touring model first conceived by DCI, it was " not DCI's fault ". DCI just set up the National Touring model, and off the Corps went for 2 months and thousands of miles criss crossing the country to compete and to entertain us.... and then after tour, right into bankruptcy court for the vast majority of 'em.