fleurghost

This is poor taste. Obviously nothing came about on this situation. In fact I do believe the "individual" you are speaking of is working in a public school system. Tom, are you part of last years staff and not getting paid? If you are then you should contact DCI and give them your staff contract where you should be paid. But bashing people on a subject that people may not be aware of specifics is not a good idea. ALL I can say is wow...... So much for supporting, I'd also love to know why former admin was so quickly booted out, I am assuming they were not the purist" of souls. You've stooped to all all new LOW

I would say the same thing. There is no need to smile when corps are going through changes. But people have to understand that sometimes there are NECESSARY changes that have to be made. For instance are we sure that the former management of the corps was doing the right things? Or are we basing our thoughts and emotions on the basis that specific individuals are close friends, and that they are the only ones that can make something happen? Either way I hope that Crossmen and Genesis lending supporting hands to their neighbors to the North. It would be a sad day if the corps left the field due to past management and problems.

The following Brass and percussion used by the FORTE DRUM AND BUGLE CORPS is for sale. The equipment is located in the Bowling Green KY area and is available for immediate sale. 5 Trumpets- 475 a piece or 2,375 for the set 2 Mellos- 575 a piece or 1,150 for the set 2 Baritones- 700 a piece or 1,400 for the set 5 Tubas- 2,500 a piece or 12,500 for the set 7 Snares- 375 a piece or 2,625 for the set 4 Tenor- 625 a piece of 2,500 for the set 5 basses 750 a piece or 3,750 for the set 3 Adams Vibes 2,500 a piece or 7,500 for the set For more information call Josh Williams at 606-422-8008 OR Contact Forte at director@fortecorps.org Additional Colorguard equipment is also for sale, all of which was used in the 2011 Field Production.

BRAVO Knight Fire! Do NOT listen to those that are filled with criticism and hate.... When they are able to question, or pull down, and can do so while signing their name, and LISTING the past 5 years worth of support they have given the activity, THEN YOU SHOULD TAKE THEIR WORDS TO HEART! However, you will find they are most likely not even Drum Corps Alumni (if they are I feel sory for the group that they marched with) WE TEACH SUPPORT in this activity.... Not hatred for groups!

NOT TRUE Mr. Blackburn. You know this to be fake, I think I can point out a few people that you've had that are no longer there.... So why come on here and make that statement? You know it to be NOT TRUE!

So what do we do able an 18 year old member and a 15 year old member? DCP has really developed a long list of "foremost authorities" on all situations and subjects. Let us not remember that there isn't exactly a line of people waiting to be poor and take the time to run a corps. I don't think child predators should work with corps, but at the same time, those that hire people have the choice to do so. Convicted criminals work at McDonald's serving Happy Meals to Children, but do we scream that they also should not work? Really sit back and think about it. There is always two sides to a story. How many times have we each heard that someone was "convicted" of a sex crime against a Minor, because an 18 year old was dating a 16 year old, and years later they even got married. But in the end they are guilty of crimes against a minor. This brings back the good old saying that if YOU were not DIRECTLY involved, then you don't know the circumstances. Information literacy also tells you that INTERNET searches cannot be trusted, because nearly 98% of the time what is "reported" on the net is strictly ONE SIDED. I say mind your own, and allow those that run organizations, and usually also fund them, make the decisions. These topics and situations have gotten way out of line, and everyone steps in to cast a stone. Then we say that we've never done anything wrong... Well thats a LIE as we all have. Remember no one is perfect. Have you ever told someone one things just to get out of a situation? Or better yet attended an event and gotten in free when really you should have paid.. PRESTO thats theft, but its okay because you worked with the group early that season? This is all just tooo much anymore. If you want to complain, then ANYONE 18 and above needs to be checked. Members, Volunteers, Instructors, Judges, Bus Drivers, Instrument repair people (who fix horns and such on the road), other "Marketplace" personnel, Stadium workers who also have contact with the kids, fans who come in to see the kids... EVERYONE! Won't happen, so let the individual groups decide.... And support their decisions.

I will say this. There should be guidelines for all staff members whether Admin, Educational, or DCI Judges.... Also Volunteers. But DCI is really just an organization that provides the competition outlet to member corps. Take this into account. SAY JUST SAY, that Phantom was about to fold, and the only way they could stay afloat was to take a $60K donation from someone that had a past conviction, which eventually was cleared off their record, but none the less it was there, and they said that by taking the donation they wanted to be the tour manager for the corps. Now the corps is left with a decision, but who would mandate this... DCI? Would DCI tell Phantom no to hiring their tour manager? because after all WHO hires the staff? And what wold be the consequences, NOT allow Phantom to compete in DCI? Unfortunately this is a touchy subject, and most are right, pretty much EVERYONE has something in their closet. Be that it is Pat S and the beating of his former wife.... Greg O and the issue with harboring a child, Randy B and the violent outbursts against children that cost him HIS teaching license, and the list goes on! I am not sure if there is a clear cut way to deal with this problem. I do know this though, its usually best not to use the internet as a tool to bring the activity down. When something happens, you can be rest assured e-mails happen and everyone that needs to know is in the know! I'd say let them deal with it the best they can, afterall Staff and Volunteers are starting to really show up in smaller amounts now!

Why would something happen. Current WC corps win and loose through the major regionals all year long. Just to switch positions going into Championship week. Even in 08 Phantom was not winning going into finals, they keep surging up there. One performance can beat another on any given night, its call competition and consistency.

So what you're saying is that back in the early 90's IF what you want is a rule stating only ONE corps per organization can be in Finals???? Well heck, what would todays finals be like if Crown nor Crossmen ever made it to finals... THEY were YEA.... Other than that I mean Madison was Southwind as well, but the good old South never made it there, but still....It would have sucked not allowing Crown or Crossmen to ever be up there! Oh yeah and Magic.... They were YEA too right?

Yes not only are they making it cheaper for people to see it all, if they want to, they are packing it to where people don't have to take off the entire week to see it. I think that they also have done the OC a great service. This past year EVERYONE got to perform in the DOME because of several corps not going.... NOW it is a given that all OC's get to do their last show there.... Even if they place out of the top 17. Someone always has to complain..... Everyone is fair and equal now... CELEBRATE!

WELL make sure that they haven't changed the way in which the corps will perform... NO ONE said they would go in "order" Remember Madison's ED saying that shaking up the performance order. If they were smart they would place ONE top 12 between a 13-25 corps.... So if you wanna see the top 12 you also will see the other.... COME ON SUPPORT ALL THE KIDS! Wait for it, Just wait for it, you'll see them do it :) Trust me on this.

Stu if you take a second to READ posts you would know that that was in DIRECT response to individuals stating that crown provides affordable instruments to high schools so what is the LOSS there. THE RESPONSE was IT'S CHEAPER to buy a NEW horn (almost $400 cheaper) than to buy that USED horn from CROWN! What you are trying to imply is that all high schools should exists and buy instruments to support Crown. Yeah right! Crown needs to keep their horn for 5-10 years (since they are professional individuals you can take care of horns) and reduce their fees to make it more accessible. I mean after all since they have sooo much money and such a HUGH company, why not take the BD model and have Crown Cadets? And again to help clarify for YOU..... Would you rather purchase... A USED horn for $1275 or A NEW horn at $880

HERE is the problem with that........ Crown 2010 trumpet for sale at $1,275.00 (USED!) Kanstul G horn BRAND NEW $880.00 The new G horn is nearly $400 cheaper than that of the USED Crown HORN..... Does that clarify for you?

And I can almost BET you that the financial drop of support has effected them. But taking a year here and there off doesn't show that you are a "world-class" caliber program. If it doesn't turn a profit, WHICH IT CAN as I do it ALL THE TIME! Then they need to dis-associate the whole program from the CROWN family. But say what you want, I promise you they are not making smart decisions down there in the "jewel" land. Possibly cut back the outrageous spending and maybe quit acting like competing in Drum Corps is actually a burden on Crown. Well if you wanna see a breakdown, ask them.... They do after all HAVE to make those budgets public. They are nonprofit and really have no choice.

I run one, and I can assure you that the few gold medals that we have won I did it with no where NEAR 80-100K....

Overall its not TERRIBLY TERRIBLY expensive. However with the crap that Crown does financially, its no wonder they cannot afford it. Changing of uniforms EVERY year, the purchasing of extremely extensive pieces of equiptment.... Topped with the need to be the RICHEST and BIGGEST spending corps has finally showed them why they are not a DCI Champion. It takes right at $25,000 to have a solid and highly competitive WG. Being that CrownGUARD charged approx $1,200 and have 22 members on average they still made about $1,400 in PROFIT. However, planning and logistics are what takes the most time. All I can say is this should prove that Crown CANNOT be consistent and does NOT strive to provide a consistent performing ensemble that is professional and dedicated to member development. I think its a shame that one yer yu can be here, and another you can be gone. This was the SAME case with CrownGUARD when it was in Dayton. Here a few years gone for several, back then gone. LOL Crown really should just get some new leadership, I am sure there are the DIE HARDS down there, but I think Coats and Smith have ceased to see reality.

I think that's because they currently don't own instruments. Much of their horns were mismatched, and I believe borrowed. I don't think "g" horns are obsolete, I feel more in the lines that they are not used as much because the "bflat" horn manufacturers were willing to give HUGE discounts for artist endorsements. And from EVERYTHING I've read about Kanstul is that they produce quality instruments, that are cheaper that most b flat instruments to begin with. I also think that by saying they will fail in a few years is something that could be directly related to the fact that no one supports many of the corps today. I have various friends that all have marched, many of them are in my same positions, our corps don't exist anymore. I've asked them who they give to..... Some have said Madison. Not that I don't like Madison, but I mean COME ON with 75 years of alumni, the souvie revenue, the revenue from members and prospective members, DCI pay, grants, fundraisers... THEY MAKE MORE THAN ENOUGH! If you are struggling on running a corps on $800,000- $1 MILLION then take a look at yourself. There are corps that run on less than $100K.... So when you donate, try and give a little to some of the small corps, that can GREATLY benefit from what you are doing an giving. We all talk about a long term financial success for a corps, I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!! But have you even given a buck to this corps? And what hurts giving a buck to them? Can you not spare one measly buck? So I truly doubt in a few years they will say.. I screwed up lets go back to bflat... most likely they'll say "at least we have GREAT horns" that a great deal of other corps don't have, and we sound MUCH bigger and darker on the field. Saying they are obsolete is like saying Blue Saints and the Racine Scouts are obsolete, in your eyes they may be, but I do believe they are the LONGEST CONTINUALLY OPERATING CORPS IN THE WORLD! You cannot count Cadets either (although Racine is STILL older) because they change their #### organization every other year.

So I am guessing its a good thing that they are wanting to go to "g"? I hope they get the sponsorship money from everyone. I gave them $20 but hey that won't even make a dent. Just glad to support a group that does what we all love to do.

I was thinking the same thing, I asked someone who is auditioning there, they said that they are wearing black this upcoming year, so I am thinking it was a quick fix... But I've seen those jackets somewhere before, I just know I have. SO maybe they were given to the corps????? Either way you're right they were rather plain........ I am hoping that they do have a fix for that..... What are their corps colors? Is it blue? I don't think its really defined. Either way I don't care, but I would like to see an emblem or something on the jacket. Finances seem to be a huge topic so what does it cost to have something like that made? I don't mean to be critical of the corps, more so just curious about some of their decisions. Oh well I'm still supporting them for the bold move to march bugles, They could wear pink for all I care.... (no pun on star)

I wish more OC would do that, I know its expensive and would be for them to go to it, but I say UNPLUG them and arm them with G's.... :) I am just excited that a few groups are wanting to offer at least the opportunity to march with a G horn.

I think it was because of members.... They had staff up and quit on them, but don't quote me I'm not sure on that one. I just know that in the beginning there was a large group of kids, then it weeded away, which if the staff thing is the case, I'd be mad. But either way still is great news, that someone is wanting to make the move.... They are new though. so who knows. First years are hard, I see where they purchased a EQ trailer as well on there, so I am not sure if money was the issue..... Not sure.... Does anyone have any connections with the staff that could comment?

We all love Facebook and social media. I came across this today on Facebook.... http://www.platinumdrumcorps.org/gdrive.html This is amazing, and simple a wonderful idea. I think personally that this might just help this drum corps find their "niche" in the activity. I hope they raise the funds needed. I for one will help them out, because I love the sound of a field of Bugles, actual ones. I just wonder what and how the judging community will look at this. I hope they wouldn't be picked apart for making this move. What do you think?

We have HAD three divisions. There isn't enough corps to do that. And you assume that size is the only thing that declares you OC or WC... Just because an organization can put 100 on the field doesn't mean they have the desire to go WC, and risk folding. WC just means they have access to the WC touring schedule. Why would I want to be FORCED to go WC if that is not the desire I wish to take, or the direction I want to go? We do have size mandates on corps. NO LESS THAN 30 and NO MORE THAN 150! There are your limits.... Whatever happens within those limitations is fair game. The smaller organizations that you speak of being smaller and not on a level playing field, mostly do it to themselves, there are a few that try and cannot overcome membership hurdles, but you have to stop and as why is that. Most of the time it is the administration. Either they are lazy, or they simply do not engage in recruiting or getting their message out there. If I saw just HALF or even 1/4 of the desire to promote and get the corps image out there on the part of any OC as a WC corps (other than a few) then there would be more corps, and bigger ensembles. But reality is, many of them just expect people to come, and truly they don't want to work. I can promise you that we've beat this horse TO DEATH, its not going to change, some corps will survive and some will die. Its mostly the leadership of the corps that ultimately does it!

Have you looked at the schedule? Most Open Class corps do only a part tour to begin with. You not making sense. Many corps fold or go inactive because they cannot find members, or because they cannot generate funds. Then other times there are some that just cannot focus on members. OC is NOT the problem. OC usually turns the profit, and doesn't spend more than they have to spend. ITS the WC that is causing the issue. Bigger, More equipment, electronics, longer tours, tour the nation... OOPPS we need more money, no one will pay $35-$50 to see us anymore. WHY? That's what you hear. Its not the OC shows.... NOPE Drum Corps is supported by music fans, they are not ignorant... Smaller doesn't mean weaker.... Corps is not mainstream, if people "perceive" something like that then that's their fault. I can assure you that from the individuals at the helm of the OC.... Give them equal show pay (or any pay at all) and there will be big powerful smart corps, and quite frankly more. If an OC corps can operate and ENTIRE summer on $100K and place in top 5 with 100 members, then trust me they will survive. And OC is ignored, because WC and DCI doesn't use the same marketing for all corps equally. The focus is placed on the big flashy corps... If the energy was placed on all the smaller, then you'd see a "change of times" but its not happened. So my suggestion s go after WC, and tell THEM to make changes. The changes need to be from TOP down. Cut waste out at the top and level the playing field. When you do that, the activity as a whole will develop.

I don't think people are saying that 40-60 members cannot be successful in competition. What I am saying is do I cut a corps from 100 down to 60 to be in that division? because I can assure you that just because a corps can get 100 members doesn't mean they want to, or would qualify as a "WC" corps. There isn't a director out there that would say "lets mandate the size of the field. Lets place big barriers up to make sure look bigger.... In the same breath, why would you limit the size of a corps. Running a corps is a full time job. Those that wish to impose limits on the corps, are you willing to quit your job to focus FULL time on the running of a corps? Because it does take 60-80 hours a week to do so. emails with members, parents, fans, sponsors, design people, music arrangers, staff, copyright people. The list goes on and on. SO why all of a sudden do you think that 20 new corps will just POP up? I ask everyone who makes these proposals to look at SEVERAL situations.... First think of financial impacts....... Do you know what it costs to run a semi, gas wise? to haul those "platform devices to make football field smaller" costs? Second, you are assuming that stadiums will allow this. In fact many will not, hence the fact that there are STRICT rules about wheel sizes to be allowed on the grass, and track and such. Thirdly, you are imposing a great deal of additional financial burden onto corps to ask them to haul these things around, as DCI will not pay for gas to haul them around, especially when they are not needed. So again we add additional spending to programs that don't get the first bit of funding from DCI. No show pay, and they have to pay for housing, unlike WC. I ask if people TRULY understand the operational aspects of an OC corps? But I would suggest you to fly out (or drive) to the OC BoD meeting. Present your ideas, however in that same sentence be prepared to be told... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, THANKS!!!! I agree, amps are not the answer to problems, and neither is the corps size. Smaller units can be JUST as good as larger ones. But placing limits on them is rather silly, and if this was the case, then essentially you are asking for the re classification between Div I, II, III because 100 is not 150 and 100 is not 60 so there would have to be 3 different classes.........