GUARDLING
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Posts posted by GUARDLING
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8 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:
100% agreed.
I learned how to teach from a beloved Cavie alum and I honor that as often as possible. (Anyone who knew Randy would know he'd appreciate/expect it if he were still with us.) It's the reason I still love teaching today and give thanks to him despite the many other masters I've had the pleasure of taking class from over the years.
But... I can't count the times I was overlooked for staffers that get results by harming young people. Between that and not being able to live off of multiple guard gigs in Cali or Texas, I had to stop. Unfortunately, it's not much better in the dance industry.
It's all power differentials. I could've easily understood that at a younger age if only someone had told me in plain English... and maybe stood by to back me up when I needed it most. I had supportive friends in corps, but nobody called it out. We just went on because, ya know, the legacy.
I would fly across country to teach in Calif. I know all schools aren't the same, but I guess I was always lucky to be with the VERY generous ones..lol
You are right but not just about the similarities to the dance industry, there are many correlations that can be made to sports (group or individual) which would include bad teachers, abuse or all kinds, no matter the safeguards.
I do admire some of the legacy instructors that were absolute tyrants in the past who learned to change and realize times have changed, members have changed, what's acceptable has changed, LAWS have also changed. Of course there are still those who haven't...............................sadly
So sorry for your past experience for me I am proud many of my students I have had have been great staff people for others as well as successful designers. I am sure they took a little from me ( hopefully ..lol ) but then made their style their own.
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7 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
We're talking power differentials among immature, young adults here. Human bodies don't compete physical growth until approx 25 years, later for some, especially male bodied folks. Minimally the brain and the fusion of bones in the pelvis are incomplete for all MMs. They are immature in other ways too that affect their ability to lead without guidance. There are exceptions, and I don't want to limit the younger generations, but I don't trust the toxicity of the broader guard culture with leadership responsibilities.
I don't think the "adult" members that took on leadership roles when I marched were in any way competent to do so. They perpetuated and enabled harm just as much as staff. And never forget that guard members don't have the luxury of training in pedagogy for our form. All of our training is up to people who rarely, if ever, left drum corps. Many teach in k12 public education of season, but that's apples and oranges. Having your teaching methods challenged and dissected? That doesn't happen at any point in guard training. Results are what matter... if you get results you must be a good teacher.
I hope Gen z is better than we were.
I have hired and FIRED many staff over the years , young and old. I don't like to say one is better than the other. Results are important for sure BUT the way to results are just as important. For me I watch carefully how someone teaches, why they take the approach they do, and does it fit in with the culture desired, do they command respect, as well as give it, do they project and follow through with reassuring a member through style of teaching that they are on the students side no matter how hard they are on them. This isn't easy for young or old BUT the younger staff member also has the challenge of being close in age and easily can blur the lines of student and teacher. I can't even tell you the countless times I have had to come down hard on some very talented staff to STOP playing with the members and that I hired a staff person to do a job I didn't hire another member. Of course I would get a response like" I can do what I want on my time" and that is true BUT then my response is well I can hire who I want and can do what I want on my time. Make a choice!🙂
Is the fair? maybe , maybe not BUT many of the issues we see today and those fine lines not to cross
In my experience, even in the multi forms of abuse you have expressed in the past I found over the years it comes up more often than any other scenario with leadership roles , member to member ( all of age ) young staff to member.
I believe it takes a strong leader to watch just not in results which is very important BUT how results were achieved.
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4 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
I won’t confirm or deny that people tied to at least a dozen corps may or may not have sent them to me or people I may or may not. I will also not confirm myself or the people I may or may not know may or may not have shared them privately or just put them on social media sites we may or may not use
HMMMMM Now DUDE! what does that tell you......lol...JK
Happy Holidays Jeff
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32 minutes ago, mjoakes said:
I was briefly involved in a start-up corps from Indiana aiming for Sound Sport status. The organization had some members, bought some horns, and practiced a show designed for them. But there was no credible business plan. It was the brainchild of someone passionate about drum corps and music and educating young people. Good. But you need some business people heavily influencing what is done.
The cost? I don't know. I think the founder maxed out credit cards and sucked dry their savings. But I can't verify that.The ones with good intentions, passion for drum corps etc etc is the very reason so many went under in the 70s. So many great people BITD did that very thing, max out credit cards, mortgage their homes, personal loans, just to survive and most didn't anyway. One needs way more than good intentions especially now when the resources of the good ole days do not exist today.,
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13 minutes ago, gbass598 said:
Here is an honest question. How many people audition with actually knowing the full cost of membership? I'm not sure any corps is transparent on their fees in public. I've not seen anything details posted on anyone's website. Even college is pretty transparent on tuition fees.
Maybe I'm wrong but drum corps seems to be "Pay your $150 audition fee and then we'll tell you what everything actually costs."
As someone who was very involved in the audition process, there are MANY who go through the audition process without any thought of making certain corps BUT do it for the actual experience. Now if they happen to make it, all the better. I've actually seen some who do make it who never even dreamed of making it nor went for that reason who were then faced with " Now what do I do"..lol
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3 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:
The resources are readily available for parties interested in protecting their communities better.
Here's the 3rd highest hit from a web search of "definition of grooming behaviors:" https://www.rainn.org/news/grooming-know-warning-signs
RAINN is a trusted resource and national leader on the topic.
The grooming behaviors that don't involve direct-contact violations are: preferential treatment (not a viable teaching tactic in the first place,) favoritism (still not a viable teaching tactic,) gifts (similar to before, especially when there's a power differential,) one-to-one time (safe educational institutions and strong educators know this is extremely-rarely necessary,) use of personal email or social media (see previous,) contact outside of school hours (there are laws in Europe that say businesses can't even contact their employees off-hours... there is no "minor emergency" for a band student that can't be handled during hours. Even in cases of major emergencies, only the most qualified, trained, and prepared teachers should be handling student emergencies... instead call their guardians and 911, and get the student back in the care of their loved ones. Most anything else is not a teacher's place.)
Look no further than the Diamante report to see these in action... and they weren't young children, simply young adults. Strong educators know to avoid the behaviors because they have the potential to poison the social structure of a young student group very quickly. At worst, and in the hands of predators and their enablers, these behaviors can destroy lives.
I can agree 1000% with crossing lines that shouldn't be. This isn't even 10 or 20 or 30 years ago when SOME of these things were considered acceptable ( not talking about abuse, that was NEVER acceptable)
Now with that said, I usually don't weigh in on a lot of people's personal beliefs but do want to say there has been over the past many who believe students should be involved in many things. A few examples are show design, music, rules etc etc. I think you know what I mean. Well IMO I do believe there are lines not to be crossed and one cannot pick and choose how a line can be crossed. I believe when you blur lines on either side is when guards come down and opens a door for whatever behavior. This can mean many things you just mentioned (your high lights) Again I 1000% agree.
There is an abundance of young and new talent, younger by the day BUT there's a time and place when one is a student and one a teacher Blur those lines IMO and a door swings open. This is by no means a put down to a student, quite the opposite but I have been doing this for decades in this activity and the line crossers and not just the adult or staff. YES the staff should know better and if they don't then a good director should know when to step in and draw even a thicker line for BOTH parties. Students also need to know of that line and how NOT to cross it.
As a director, designer, staff, judge (the many roles I have had) I have often had to threaten staff of being fired to NOT play with the members and that I hired a staff person not another member and if they wanted to be a member either just march ( WGI WC , no age limit ) or find another job elsewhere.
Sorry for the long response but felt maybe I should weigh in a bit, especially because I have had to deal with this very thing many many times over the years.🙂
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I believe you can be tough as nails and prove your method works BUT have to be good enough that your students KNOW you are 100% on their side, you have their back, support them win or lose.
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Dear friend and devoted to his passion. RIP Louie
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14 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
have to fix finals first if you ever plan to get more than 13 corps ( assuming Sun comes back and no one else goes inactive). then you can address the every corps/every show model.
3 classes make more sense with more corps. this year you're telling one corps per class "sorry, no tin on a ribbon for you"
alot more !
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30 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
I do wonder if it may be best for them to retire the name Madison Scouts. The Madison Scouts powerhouse Corps of the 1970s & 80s can live on in Drum Corps Valhalla, along with Anaheim, 27, Bayonne, and far too many others.
Keep the Corps going, continue providing a high-quality DCI experience to current and future members. But find a new name for the Corps.
Why? Scouts are male as well as female. Just because some of us are used to something doesn't mean they need to change or not. Personally, I donl't care what Scouts look like or play (although I have loved the " Iconic and legendary past" ) JUST DO IT WELL!. We can also say retire the Madison part..are their members from Madison? is Boston members actually from Boston. One can nitpick that also if one wanted to. I say corps should be anything THEY want to be JUST DO IT WELL
as " Boston has "
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8 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:
We’re 🐑
For sure
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2 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
It reminds me of Las Vegas hotels and how they make you walk through the casino to get to the hotel, hoping you’ll drop some cash in the slots. 😂
Just like every supermarket, big box store or even a successful small mom and pop business. I took a master class in a specific small business, and it taught exactly how to do that, even with a pathway in carpeting and showed in demonstration how people didn't stray from the pathway much. The pathway purposely set to bring the customer past everything you wanted them to see. Was quite interesting to see it in action, and how it worked without people realizing it.
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37 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
As I was trying to find a cool vid like @84BDsop, I came across one that left me questioning myself and thinking exactly this. Thanks. I'm still on the fence it would appear.
Here's the vid. A masterful study in many things, least of all their use of unison, compliment, contrast, as well as sustained and sudden movements. All of it looks difficult to me.
for sure difficult...just a different difficult..Anything done well can look easy to many. BUT far from it
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38 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
I know some folks are arguing that scatter drill can be lazy writing, and in some cases it can be. That doesn't mean it always is, BD being the champion example. The "scatter" is still just a moniker for what is very carefully planned and executed. They are some of the obvious masters here. But I think distinguishing between "lazy writing" and careful planning is important.
I still think scatter drill relies less on group effort for the effect, and more on the designers' grand vision. By it's very nature it allows for (or ideally celebrates) more individual expression and virtuosity.
Said another way: group achievement breaks down faster if there are discrepancies among MMs in technique, approach, mindset, or ability/injury... all of those things can be more easily masked by scatter drill. That's something I'd use to my advantage as a designer when needed. Any kind of drill can be made to look amazing under the care and laser focus of BD.
Now your fencing examples are super intriguing to me. If scatter drill is designed to be improvisational (which I didn't experience on the field) then yes, virtuosity and brilliance can really shine in the seeming-randomness. But this is still more focused on individual achievement right? You can't award the group for individual achievement because there's a different judge/rubric for that right? On the other side of things, if scatter drill is fully designed, then there may be less room for individual achievement... it's a only bit more about achieving your responsibilities as they relate the group.
But scatter drill is simply not as difficult to master as unison. By it's very nature it's adaptable and that's an excellent tool for designers, especially those with performers of varying abilities. I think folks here are arguing that scatter drill and unison shouldn't be worth the same on the sheets because, in general, the latter is more challenging than the former, not that's it's not difficult or valuable at all.
Agree with most of what you say till. ( highlighted ) I have designed both, taught both for a veryyyyyyy long time and to make sense and a purpose of something that may look random is so difficult and to literally go to every performer and plan every pathway, relation of one member to another, communication, etc etc etc. is way harder than looking at a line curve circle and clean in mass. Harder to get a unison looking clean? Maybe not harder or easier maybe just different from one another. Different doesn't have to mean better or not as good either. Different is just different.
I think with some , when this scatter stuff first appeared it was a hot mess and many just said just get to the next set with little planning BUT that's not the same today, Not at all. JMO
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46 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
the key is the people designing it seem to finally take into account the limitations certain instruments create. a snare is different than tenors, which is different from basses which is different from a trumpet, mello, bari or tuba.
true but i didnt see limitations at all this year.. ( as you say a good designing but also to bring them up to a high quality not just for the sake of doing it )I loved it and was so impressed by so many of them
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Just now, Ediker said:
Because there was no surprise emoticon. I’m surprised that such a big event and venue does not have a better staffing solution. There was inadequate admission, concession, and security staff… and completely unnecessary staff members operating the elevators (ffs, I can push my own button… they’re literally doing nothing else, except taking up space and making the process slower).
Oh sorry , wasnt talking about LOS just that some arenas have had volunteers to fundraise. Of course, should be trained and in the past when I had members do this they had to be trained and were not left alone so that the customer had a competent person helping them. Sometimes they would also sell event t shirts etc etc.
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7 minutes ago, GUARDLING said:
I have had winter programs work at arenas and their pay went to the org. and /or their dues. It was a way to fundraise for themselves and they actually always had a great time,,,so they said anyway,
why confused?..lol
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9 minutes ago, Ediker said:
Say what?? The LOS staff are volunteers? How does that raise $$ for local sports? Does DCI or LOS make donations instead of paying the staff?
I have had winter programs work at arenas and their pay went to the org. and /or their dues. It was a way to fundraise for themselves and they actually always had a great time,,,so they said anyway,
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I have to shout out to ALL brass and percussion for outstanding growth in the movement area. I expect great movement skills from the guard but in the past as much as I was glad the rest of the corps attempted some movement and sculpting it was cringe worthy at times and often the same corps to corps.
WOW, this year I was drawn to some pretty great musical and unique body skills from the brass and percussion. Congrats to you all , it was great, entertaining as well as skillfully done. Bravo !
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7 minutes ago, ftwdrummer said:
And the people judging would look at you and say "No, make it look good."
Just because it appears random to your eyes does not mean that there wasn't careful thought required to make it still look good.
YES 👍
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3 hours ago, AzEuph said:
It’s obvious DCI judging criteria wants to reward corps for individual performance and content. We see BD do this individual style for a large chunk of their show. Same with SCV.
Random path to dot. Scattering. Different step offs and arrivals. Even forms are designed dirty so there aren’t noticeably clean lines or shapes.
Here’s what I don’t get: why?!
I’m in complete belief that doing something unison as an entire ensemble is harder than having 80 individual brass players. One little error sticks out.
Imagine if we had the same criteria for music. Rewarding individual intonation, pitch, attacks and releases. Music performance is expected, and rewarded, for being unison and perfect. Why? Because it’s more difficult to play in unison than not. And it sounds dirty if not in unison.
The activity has continued to progress in a lot of creative and fantastic ways. This isn’t one of them, IMO.
21 minutes ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:I'm going to push back on this.
Yes, we all love unison moments. I remember watching the best of DCI videos on Youtube and the 2008 one with Crown and their hit with the unison straight leg marching and how amazing it is.
And yes, that is judged on an individual basis by the field judge. Each member understanding interval, step size, style, technique, posture, etc etc.
But the style of BD is extremely impressive as well. The way their members move, travel, expressiveness of visual components. They all perform exactly the same with the exact same intensity, emotion, technique. You can still look across the field and assess each individual and how they are performing with the same expressive quality.
What you are describing, is why we have so many judges. The field judges assess the individuals, while the judges in the box assess the ensemble.
"IF random movement is done well and looks easy you can bet ALOT of time and effort was put into every step and pathway for every person and wasn't easy at all !
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2 hours ago, Cadet Guardy said:
Hieu Nguyen should never be allowed to judge in DCI ever again - any credibility established has been lost with tonight. Anyone in the arts knows dang well BD didn’t win guard tonight; pretty dang hard on the Cadets too.
I dont comment alot on personal likes or dislikes BUT this is one of the finest Cadet guards in a very very long time. And IMO some of the best writing they have had...... Congrats
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Santa Clara Vanguard 2023 Announcement Thread
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
Well injuries are part of many physical endeavors, sports, dance ' skaters, hell im sure competitive chess players have back to hand and wrist issues. What's important is if injuries are expected in an activity one has to be prepared and limit as much as possible. Most of all take care of the situation.
Even ask the marchers of the early days of drum corps how their knees are whom that high leg lift pounding into the ground, YIKES! The good ole days, as good as they were are tainted with very questionable things but of course we should have learned better by now, and of course some haven't as well as some newer staff maybe never learned. It all goes back to LEADERSHIP at the top.