trptjock

Back in the late 80's-early 90's VK were marching a soprano bugle (two valved) that had a shepherds crook on the bell. I have not seen any other hornline use this make of horn ever and wondered if an alumnus of VK could lend some insight to the horn. It looks like a Kanstul (from the appearance from the other horns in the line) but it is hard to tell. Were these custom horns made for VK only? The years in question were 87-91. I may be off on one or two of those years, but I do remember seeing a shepherds crook soprano in the line, especially with some of the soprano soloists in closeup shots. Please advise. Thanks

To any and all who may know. If a corps marches G bugles the entire season but a member wants to play a B-flat horn for I and E, is this permissible? Or would the individual have to perform on the instrument that the corps is fielding for that particular season? So: If a soprano player in the "insert corps name here" is playing on a G bugle for the season with the corps and wants to play DCI I & E on a B-flat trumpet, can he do it? Please advise. Thank you for your time.

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Anyone know the F tuning sequence to the 1995 Blue Devils on field? They play F tuning in major, then going into minor. Anyone know the sequence? It would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Here is what I play on right now: B-flat: Edwards Generation II KHT 21-Bell BD-1-Leadpipe (for lead playing) F-3 -Leadpipe (for everything else) Bach, 37 Bell, 43 reversed leadpipe (played on this before the Edwards) C: Edwards Generation III KHT 21-Bell F-3 Leadpipe Bach, 229 bell, 25H pipe (played on this before the Edwards) D/E-flat: Schilke E3-L Piccolo: Schilke P5-4 Scherzer 4-valve rotary. Flugel: Yamaha YFL: 6310Z C Bass Trumpet: Alexander 4-valve Rotary Bugle: Kanstul-Soprano (at the time I bought it, it was called the "symphonic" model) Kanstul-Mellophone (got it used) Kanstul-Contra (old Regiment horn) DEG- 2-valve soprano found at a garage sale. Valve Trombone: Getzen Bass Trombone: Bach 50, conversion to double Thayer valve. Alto Trombone: Bach 39 For those of you who are curious, Yes, I do play all of these instruments.

The 2003 Blue Stars still have spots available in all sections of the hornline for this year. We are looking to march 36 horns this year with the following breakdown: 12 sopranos: 4 spots left 8 mellos: 3-5 spots left 10 baritones: 4-5 spots left 6 contras: Check out the Blue Stars Website for more details on camps and membership information. Time is getting short as the summer approaches. For those of you who are not marching in a corps just yet, consider this an invitation to come to one of our remaining camps. www.bluestars.org You can also contact me personally if you have any further questions about the hornline or the corps. I am very willing to help. Contact me through my address on DCP. I hope everyone enjoys the rest of the winter/spring season before the summer gets here. Good luck to all. See you in florida. Ray Vasquez Brass Caption Head Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps.

I find it interesting that no one has mentioned "The Originators of all Classical Pageantry". (THE PHANTOM REGIMENT) Yes, the Blue Devils have put out a consistently successful hornline since thier inception into DCI, with 18-19 Jim Ott trophies to thier credit for best brass performance you have to appreciate that. But there have been other hornline staffs that agree on sound quality, technique, expertise in the field of orchestral sounds than the brass staff at the Phantom Regiment. The proven arrangements of Jim Wren from back in the day up to 1996, the directon of the program and brass caption head Dan Farell, and the staff of professional musicians and educators from many places across the US have made Regiment a consistently powerful, rich, dark and exciting hornline to listen to for many years. Perhaps, I am biased, but I have listened to many hornlines in my DCI days as a member and spectator and no other hornline has put out THAT sound over THAT many years for so long that have made Regiment a recognizable hornline for as long as it has. They must be doing something right. Just my thoughts

Phantom Regiment is now playing King B-flats this year. In case you wanted to know

Hello to all, The Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps currently has spots open for sopranos, mellophones and contras. If you are interested in auditioning, or recieving an audition packet go to the Blue Stars website (www.bluestars.org) and fill out a membership request form. We want to march 36 horns for this summer and need some help to fill out our numbers. If you are interested in marching with the Blue Stars, please get in contact with me and I will be able to get you more information about the activity and our organization. Good Luck to all, and I hope to see you over the summer. R.V.

Well, I have moved form mouthpiece to mouthpiece trying to find one that suits me for the various types of playing I do and this is what I have used so far. Everything else that is not lead trumpet: Bach 1-1/2B, but recently moved to a Warburton 3D with an 11* backbore. Lead Trumpet "goodness" Schilke 13A4A (started out on this) Marcinkewicz Bobby Shew Model 1.25 (played on this when I went to North Texas) Marcinkewicz Roger Ingram Model (moved to this mouthpiece out of curiosity and liked what this could do) The Schilke (to me) felt like a 5C rim but with a more rounded rim and a shallower cup. I loved the sound I got off of it. I was going for the early Maynard Ferguson sound. Looking for fat sound with substance and not edge. Moved to the Marcinkewicz becasue a student of mine said I should try them. So I did and liked what I could do for me. It made my sound a little more brilliant, but slotted the notes easier. I played on this for all of my lead playing for 5 years. I then moved to the Ingram when I heard a group in New Orleans playing in a bar and listened to their trumpet players really going for it. It was the sound I had always wanted. When the band took a break I talked to the trumpet guys in the band and asked what they played on, they told me they were on Roger Ingram models. So out of curiousity I bought one for myself and liked it immediately. Gave me a fatter sound than the Shew and still slotted the notes like the Shew. I have been playing that mouthpiece for the past 5 years and have had no reason to change it now.

Hello to all, My name is Ramon Vasquez. I am the Brass Caption Head for the Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps from LaCrosse Wisconsin. I write you today to inform you that we still have openings for our hornline for this year is all sections. Please take a moment to visit the Blue Stars Website for information on camps and our web forum. Also take some time to fill our the membership request form if you are considering marching our corps. Once you fill out the request form, I will then send you the hornline audition packet which will contain various exercises, fingering charts, audition etudes, scales and assorted other bits of information. We are looking at marching a hornline of 36+ members for this year and could use your support. We have plans to return to our original status of Division One in the next few years. The Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps has a storied history, was one of the founding members of DCi, has three world championships to its credit and has been consistently successful in the activity. Please consider being a part of the Blue Stars history and be a member. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions regarding membership or the audition procedures. My email address can be accessed through the Blue Stars website at (www.bluestars.org). Thank you Ray Vasquez Brass Caption Head Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps

Hello to all, My name is Ramon Vasquez. I am the Brass Caption Head for the Blue Stars Drum and Bugle corps from LaCrosse Wisconsin. I am writing you today to inform you that we still have openings for our hornline. We plan on marching 36+ members this year. It is our plan to eventually return to our former Division One status in the next few years. We can do this with your support. If you are interested in marching with the Blue Stars, please visit the Blue Stars website for camp information and check out our discussion forum. You will need to fill out a membership request form on the main web-page. Once we recieve the information, I can then send you an audition packet. The packet will contain various exercises we will use throughout the summer, the three audition etudes, scales, fingering charts and much more. Please take the time to fill out the form. As I had stated, we are looking at marching 36 horns for this year and continue to build towards the future. If you should have further questions for me, please feel free to email me at my address located on the Blue Stars website. The Blue Stars Drum and Bugle corps is one of the founding members of DCI, has three world championships to its credit, has been consistent in its pursuit of excellence and has a very storied history. Be a part of the Blue Stars history and help us make history again by getting us back to Division one. Thank you Ray Vasquez Brass Caption Head Blue Stars Drum and Bugle Corps.

There is one other thing to consider. The Marching Band Market is one that could not tap into the Bugle family for marching instruments. Since these instruments are in a class all there own, it would be unfair to move a14-15 year old person to a new keyed instrument that played differently than the horn they used in middle school. As for bore size. The bore size on a G soprano is 470, on a stock b-flat (Medium Large) trumpet would be 462. Large bore would result in a 468. The largest bore B-flat horn available is a 472. The second issue to consider is the construction of the two instruments. One has a bell flare made for projection and power (soprano) while the other has one for finesse and overall playing characteristics representative of a trumpet. Yes, you could put a soprano bell on a b-flat trumpet but you would loose some of the feel and slotting ability that a b-flat would have. The b-flats that are being made, are made for outdoor playing. Larger bell flares, larger bore size. A larger instrument in general. There are some people in the drum corps community that are assisting these manufacturing companies to make a better marching horn, but the real reason is not to make money, but to keep an activity going that is obsolete in some peoples eyes. In many states, the marching activity is nonexistent. In other states, it is very much alive and well. Being a consultant for a marching brass company seems odd in that you limit your market of people you reach that will purchase the product you are working to make better. Don't get me wrong, I feel that the move to a B-flat hornline is inevitable, and now with practically all the top 12 hornlines playing on b-flats this next year, it wont be long before all corps are faced at either being nostalgic (G) or innovative (B-flat). Seems like even the stronger Division II and III corps may even move towards the B-flat line of instruments before it is all over. Isn't that a shame. What ever happened to the drum corps activity being something all its own. Not something that everyone could do.

In working with a drum corps over the summer, I can guarantee you that many corps do not get "freebies" for drums. All of the stuff on the sidelines and on the field are purchased by the corps themselves and they have an ongoing agreement to retrofit the line and pit every 2 years or so with new equipment. So the corps will sell the old stuff and buy the new stuff for the price they sold the old stuff for. Having a horn manufacturer sponsor a hornline would be great, but not very cost effective for the company. But a corps can use a brand of horns exclusively (Yamaha, Dynasty, Kanstul, etc.) and not get endorsements for it, but get some type of benefit for using a complete line of horns from that company. Of course, a Division II/III corps would not recieve such benefits, because we (Div. II/III) are not in the public eye as much as the Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Cadets, Phantom Regiment or Santa Clara. it is a tangled and sometimes one-sided web that has been weaved.

One other thing I forgot to mention is that since the mello and soprano are essentially the same horn, the trumpet player has an option of switching to mello with ease and keeping the same mouthpiece and partial structure like that of the soprano. On a french horn, the partials are considerably closer (in the same register as that of the soprano or mello) and that makes the trumpet /soprano player have to re-learn where the notes "fit" on the instrument thus making him work towards note accuracy. With the mello, the switch is easier becasue it is essentially the same instrument anyway only with a larger bell. So the french horn and mello generate almost the same tonal color, but one is a bit more difficult to play than the other. Knowing this and what it would take to get members to work on the instrument, many hornlines opt for working with mellos than french horns because they are easier to play.

The reason why I think the french horn and flugelhorn have gone out of the arrangers instrument choice is because there has yet to be a company that can produce these instruments at a reasonable cost or maintain good quality intonation. As for sound quality, you really can't beat the depth of sound that a french horn can give a hornline. One issue I would imagine why these instruments have been replaced over the years is because the mellophone offers the same registers as a soprano only with a larger bell diameter, thus causing the soundqualilty to get somewhat darker. An alto has the same construction as a mello but with a smaller bell. Flugel would then be smaller than an alto and so on. The bore size of the instrument would also come into play as well with the choice of instruments. At louder dynamics (from what I have been told) the french horn tends to break up in accuracy and the partials get closer as you move into the upper registers. This can be avoided if you understand where the "Meat and Potatoes" registers are for the instruments you write/arrange for. It is also my understanding that the bugle manufacturing companies have discontinued the production of these instruments because they were not a "Big Seller" on the market. The only compay I know that still makes a french horn bugle is Kanstul. Dynasty use to make them, but discontinued them in the mid 90's. I guess after the Scouts stopped using horns and moved to Mellos, they stopped making horns. (I am probably wrong on this information). I have seen some small Div. III corps use horns still, but not like how they were used in the 70'-80's. Now with the B-flat lines that are being produced, some companies are going to make a Mello and a horn for a mid-voice selection to corps, bands and other outdoor music groups. It is frustrating to see that the horn has gone away in the writing of the horn books of the past 10 years. The mid-voice does seem to be lacking in depth of sound and richness of tone quality. Perhaps, the caption heads of the "Power Corps" will begin to realize the limitation with mello and resort back to the other varieties of middle voice instruments that are available today. Alto, Low Alto, Horn, Flugelhorn and Mello are all great, but should be used in the corect context. Just imagine if a corps actually used the wide variety of middle voice possibilities in an actual show. Utilizing the full range of instrument possibilities would be something to hear. Listening to a hornline of: Soprano, Alto, Mello, Flugelhorn, Low Alto, French Horn, Baritone, Euphonium and Contra would be very inspiring to an arranger. The sonorous possibilities would be endless. The other factor to call into play would be cost of the instruments. To outfit a corps with the instruments needed for a full 66-72 piece hornline would run in the neighborhood of $250,000-400,000. And many corps don't have those funds available to purchase these instruments. It always seems to come back to money, doesn't it.

I am not a baritone player by profession but have played it from time to time and also have done a bit of teaching on it for a while as well. I have found that for a hornline, the standard Bach 6 1/2 AL or Schilke 51D has had the most success. Personally, I don't like the feel of the rim or the sound that is produced on those mouthpieces. I have recently purchased some other mouthpieces to try on the baritone I am play testing from the Blue Stars and have been pleased with the results. I have used the following for the Baritone bugle and liked the sound: Bach 4 (baritone shank) Bach 3 (baritone shank) Denis Wick "Steve Mead" 4 (baritone shank) and a Bach 5 GS. The Bach mouthpieces all got a good rounded sound with a little brilliance at the louder dynamics. The Wick maintained its rich sound across the dynamic range as well as its intonation from top to bottom. I noticed that the bari line from the Cavaliers were playing on a "Steve Mead" model mouthpiece but not sure of the size. The 4 is the largest one that is made in the baritone shank. My suggestion would be the Wick "Steve Mead" 4 in a bari shank, or a Steve Mead in a large shank for Euphoniums. Just an opinion.

In response to the Denis Wick mouthpiece selection. I have experimented wtih many mouthpieces for mellophone and found that a Denis Wick 2 (cornet) with a cornet to trumpet adapter works the closest to the sound of a middle voice due to the mouthpieces deep-V cup and larger throat (like what is used in cornets in Europe). Now the second thing to consider is the register in which the mello is played in a majority of the time (primarily from low C to G above the staff and possibly B-flat above that). If you are to achieve a true middle voice, then you would need to have the mellophone section play on french horns. The octave displacement, tone quality and various registers lends itself to a great sound that can truly fill out a hornline. In the hornlines of old (1981-92), there were french horns being used primarily as the main middle voice and now they have gone by the way-side and have been substituted by the mello. What a shame. Listen to the 89 regiment show and tell me what you think of that sound vs. the 93 show. 89 used 5 mellos and 10 horns, the 93 show used 10 mellos. A thicker sound on key points in the show and a bit more middle push throughout. As Brass Caption Head, I am leaning towards getting the mello section to play on Wick 2's (cornet shank) and the bari sections to play on Wick "Steve Mead" 4 (bari shank). I have purchased both mouthpieces and tried them on the instruments we use this year and am very pleased with the sound that is produced from them. Just my opinion.

Yes, there are 3 valve flugel horn bugles avaiable today by Kanstul. They play fairly in tune and hold up quite well, but the concern would be as to why a corps would march a flugel rather than a mello? The only corps that I can remember seeing playing the flugel were 1992-99 Blue Devils. Aside from BD, I am not sure that anyone else even tried to use them. I could be wrong about that, but that is what I know. The 3 valve flugel runs about 770.00 from Kanstul and you would need to contact them directly if you wanted to buy one since all their instruments are hand made.

In my opinion there is no real mellophone mouthpiece that gets the desired sound out of a mellophone. The UMI (King, Conn, Benge, Kanstul) Mello 6 or 6V are essentially the same mouthpiece. The only difference is that the 6V has a deeper V cup than the straight 6. Yes they do give a good tone, but get brilliant in the upper register and the lower register does not speak as easily as some other mouthpieces I have played. I have spoken with some of the staff from Regiment from this past year and the mello line is using Bach 1 1/2 B (cornet) mouthpieces with a cornet to trumpet mouthpiece adapter. It really does get a larger, darker sound. I am currently testing many mouthpieces with the Kanstul mello I own (for testing purposes) and have tried the following: UMI Mello 6v Bach 2 (cornet) with adapter Bach 1 1/2 C (cornet) with adapter Bach 2 C (trumpet) Bach 1 1/2 C (trumpet) Bach 1 1/2 B (trumpet) CG3 Denis Wick 2 (cornet) with adapter Schilke 18, 20 (trumpet) Marcinkewicz Model 300, 1S, 1.5S (cornet) I have found that the Bach 2 (cornet) and the Wick 2 (cornet) both get a very rich and dark quality to the sound. Actually keeps the upper register in check intonation wise. The both have a nice free-blowing lower register. The Bach has a bowl shaped cup which will get a sound with more edge in the louder dynamics, while the Wick is a very deep V cup that keeps the sound focused and dark at all dynamics. The deep V on the Wick does make the horn play flat at the louder dynamics though. In essence, the mellophone is a strange instrument that really doesn't lend itself to a conventional mouthpiece without altering the characteristics of the instrument. Should a mellophone be a warm sounding instrument to not be played in the upper register, or should it be used in all registers to create a different quality throughout the arrangements of the particular hornbook. My opinion (and that is all it is), is to keep the mello as a middle voice that has a large rich, dark quality sound and to use a mouthpiece that gets that sound with the least amount of compromises in intonation and comfort. I am currently the Brass Caption head for the Blue Stars from LaCrosse Wisconsin and only offer my opinion. I am also the professor of trumpet at the University of Minnesota-Duluth. I have tried the conventional mellophone mouthpieces and they just don't get the sound needed for the type of music our hornline is looking for. But what the h### do I know. What are your thoughts. Also, in my opinion, the Kanstul horns are far superior than the Dynasty horns due to the quality of the metal, craftsmanship and sound quality they produce. The drawbacks to Kanstuls is their inconsistency. Dynasty are a more consistent instrument from horn to horn. But you can have two Kanstul mellos with sequential serial numbers and they play completely different. Perhaps, it was a fluke during manufacturing. food for thought