reallyoldfrt

The Cavaliers did begin as a Boy Scout corps back around 1948. In 1956 the Norwood Park Imperials, at that time they were a top 10 corps, had a girl snare drummer. When I joined the Braintree Warriors in 1955, we came in 5th in the VFW Finals, we had a very good drumline and our best snare drummer was Marilyn Steele. It was unusual for a corps to have girl musicians, but it wasn't illegal, and it did happen, and they more than held up with the best of the boys.

I well remember my first contest as a field judge. I was nervous as h-ll. I wanted so to do a good job very badly. The show was in Manchester NH, and the first corps on the field was totally unprepared to perform. This was in the tick era, and the execution errors were so obvious, and so numerous that I missed three or four errors in the time it took to put one down on the sheet. After about five minutes of this I happened to look around and saw all the other judges standing, clipboards by their sides, looking at me with one of those "what the h-ll are you DOING??" expressions on their faces. I looked at my sheet and started to count ticks. I felt like a complete idiot. After the show I sought out their corps director and apologized profusely. I went over to the corps in the parking lot and apologized to the kids. I've felt very badly about that for over fifty years. On comment on the style of drill in the old days. You've got to remember that the only markings on the field were the two end lines, two sidelines, and the fifty yard line. There were no visual clues for the marchers to use in determine their positions on the field. You had to rely on the other squads, segments, of the formations to gauge where you were supposed to be. Complex curved patterns and asymmetrical drills were almost impossible to manage.

I tend to agree with you, AJ. BSGK at the World Open in 1970 remains as one on the top five performances I've ever seen. In fact, all the corps in that show gave wonderful performances. My memory of BSGKs show includes the sight of Tru Crawford, judging Field Bugles that night, standing for quite a while staring at his score sheet while the runner waited patiently to take it from him. There had to have been very little on it. Finally he just shook his head and scaled the clipboard over to the sideline. My others in my top five are: Royal Aires 1965 at the CYO Nationals, Phantom Regiment at the DCI Prelims in Miami in 1993, 27L at the World open in 1971, and Blue Devils at the DCI in 1988. Interestingly, only two of the five actually won the shows on those occasions. Must be me, huh?

There are a lot of us who go back quite a way. We've all seen some very good all girls corps. In the Boston area I would rate the Norwood Debonaires as the best, based on competitive success, and longevity. Arbella was also excellent, but was short-lived. The best Canadian girls corps that I saw was St Johns of Branford Ont, by a wide margin. Ventures were also excellent, as were Les Chatelaines. I also enjoyed Les Jouvencilles Drum and Glockenspiel corps. They were unique. I never got to see the Alberta Girls, but they have a very good rep. However, the best of the best, bar none, and it's not even close, were the Bon Bon Girls of Audubon New Jersey. In 1957 they were absolutely jobbed by the powers-that-be in the American Legion at the Nationals in Atlantic City. The good-old-boys just WOULDN'T let a bunch of girls win their National Championship. This is no knock on the Holy Name Cadets, who got the trophy. They were great. IMO, and that of nearly everyone I talked to, we thought Bon Bons should have won. BITD it was the ambition of every girl's corps to beat Audubon. They asked for no favors, expected none, and quite often were able to beat the very best corps in the country.

I guess you might have heard that the Senior corps circuit used to have some AMAZING post-contest parties. The Brigadiers' Legion Post in Syracuse threw one of the best. Luckily for us this event with the cops took place on the morning after. We were not in any shape to run a marathon, but we were all reasonably sober when they stopped us.

I believe it. In 1961 I was in the Lt Norman Prince corps. We had some very snappy black satin corps jackets with white and gold trim. A group of five of us were in a car, returning to Boston from a contest in Syracuse, when we got pulled over on the Through-way by NY State troopers at one on their notorious little speed traps. When the cops saw the jackets they rousted us all out of the car. After we explained that we were not gangers, but represented a VFW Post drum corps, we got away without even a ticket.

One of my favorites was directed at a small group of 27 kids outside the Norman Prince standstill contest, the first public appearance of the khakis, by a passing member of the Boston Crusaders; " What? Did you guys just come from work, or sumthin?"

I guess we can always count on drillman to twist events to fit his own view of the world. I guess, to some extent we all do that. Mr D is evidently not a fan of George B., or the 27th Lancers. That is his right. I can tell you from personal experience that George B could be a difficult man to work for. But I can also tell you that NO ONE loved his corps, or the activity, more than he did. Drillman probably isn't familiar with Anton J, or the many, many slights, outright insults, and complete misuses of his unchallenged power with regard to how the VFW Nationals was run. The Reveries were not the first corps to get "jobbed" by Tony. Over the many years of his hegemony there were literally dozens of corps that, quite innocently, got in his way, or somehow threatened some disruption to his Million Dollar Pageant of Drums, as the VFW modestly billed their annual extravaganza. Ask around, drillman. You'll hear some stories. George B was just the last, and most visible of the corps directors. And he was the only one with the courage, and the gear, to declare to the world, "F U, you miserable Bas***d! I'm not going to let you get away with shafting my kids and, by the way, the entire drum corps community!" Having met Tony on a few occasions, I don't think he was quite the evil mastermind that has become his legacy. He didn't give a rats a** about drum corps. He cherished his exalted position within the VFW, which meant that he had to kow tow to the very sleazy internal politics of the VFW. That show made A LOT of money for the VFW. That money came from having the best corps in the country show up every year, at their own expense, and put on the best show. Of the two Nationals, the VFW was, by far, the more prestigious. And Tony was very proud of that. The last thing he needed was for someone to make waves, to have the VFW brass become aware of the slightest problem. The VFW brass didn't give a rats a** about drum corp either. They enjoyed the money. And they enjoyed the contest. George B and the Reveries certainly got their attention. It was the beginning of the end for the VFW and the corps, and a huge impetus toward the formation of DCI. For all his many faults, Tony never tried to put any drum corps out of business. He needed them to show up and perform. Other governing bodies may have made it their mission to systematically weed out the weak, the unfit, the unwealthy. But the VFW never did. We may argue motives, tactics, and dream about conspiricies, but we are faced with the incontrovertible fact that drum corps has become, for whatever reason, increasingly marginalized. So, I'd say that the 1966 VFW finals was THE SINGLE most important event, for better or worse, in the entire history of drum corps. Tony was not the evil villain. And George B just might have been the most courageous person to ever lead a corps, anywhere. Again, my conclusion is only my opinion. The events are as they are.

One small note about the 1966 IC Reveries. The name of the drum major who led the corps into Roosevelt Stadium was, and is, Richard "Gus" PROBERT, not Provist. To this day he keeps a Moe Knox 8X10 glossy photo of himself being dressed down at very close range on the sideline by the "true founder" of DCI; the infamous Anton J "Tony " Schlechta. Gus also has the uniform he is wearing in the photo. Tony's face is purple with rage. Gus is wearing a marvelous KMA expression. I mention dear Tony as the "true founder" of DCI because his treatment of the Reveries became one of the final burrs under the saddle blanket of the nation's junior corps. I believe that this incident led directly to the "Combine", and the UOJC, the immediate precursors of DCI. It also led to the formation of the 27th Lancers. The latter was a marvel, the former, eh... not so much. This is all just IMO, of course

Syracuse Brigadiers (Senior Corps) played it from 1955 to 57

Ballyhoo March by the 65 Royal Airs

Brian, I'm sure you've noticed that, in his profile, he lists a couple of corps he likes. He also scrupulously avoids any mention of ever having actually been in a corps. We know he can execute a left face while rolling a rifle around his shoulders. Or, that could just be computer graphics

HNCadet, I would be proud to accept a libation from one of the few who've figured out the Great DCI Scam, and are couargeous enough to call BS on this pathetic "music education" theme they keep harping on. No one's getting rich, here. (wink, wink, nudge, nudge) "It's for the children." And I'd be proud to stand you for one as well. Well said, sir. A bulls eye!

That was a very nice, considerate reply. For which I thank you. You are quite right about my antipathy toward DCI as an entity. My (I wouldn't call it hate) adverse suspicions of DCIs motives and practices, some of which might be viewed as violations of federal RICO statutes, (racketeering), goes back to the UOJC and the "The Combine". Nothing that has transpired since 1971 has lessened those fears and distrust one iota.There are millions of dollars involved now. And money corrupts. I had a long and enjoyable career in drum corps, beginning at age eight. After 1960 I marched Senior Corps with the Lt Norman Prince Princemen until 1966 and the beginnings of DCA. Subsequently, I instructed, and judged, and supported corps in the Boston area. They continue to have my support. After a long absence I Marched and played in alumni corps from 1998 through 2009. I still have great admiration for the talent and effort of the kids in today's corps. It's the motives, morals, and tactics of the administrators of DCI that I question.The kids are still doing the best they can, just as they always have. They are just fine. I think I might well find some peace following SDCA, and DCNA. Unfortunately I know nothing about them, not even what the acronyms stand for. Please advise, as I'd like to find out about them. Thanks again for calling them to my attention.

For the record, sonny, I aged out of Junior Corps in1960. Possibly before your parents were born. That doesn't really provide me with any special gifts of knowledge but, not to worry. It also means that I'll probably check out a lot sooner than you. You're right. I'm wrong. Enjoy.

I'm suggesting that there are no longer enough corps in existence to make it a practical or effective tactic. I'm also suggesting that a completely untrained kid is rejected out of hand because the highly professional staff of "music educators" in today's very part time, non-local drum corps has no time to actually educate a noobie. They regard that as someone else's job. Mr drillman states that DCI is University level. That's true. Maybe in some places the school systems have great music programs. Those places are usually not in urban areas where music programs have been eliminated, or severely curtailed. I'm not aware of any way to get into a university is you've never gone to elementary school or high school. BITD all corps trained their own kids, either with the big corps, or through a feeder corps. ALL corps had a few "subs" who didn't make the line, but filled in in case a starter was sick, of injured. I'm sure the big boys have a few subs travelling with them for emergencies. But. Here's the secret. BITD, when there were over a thousand corps, very few of the kids involved had any interest in having a serious musical career. They did it for fun. They rehearsed twice a week during the fall, winter and spring. It was a year-round, local activity. It cost them very little money, only their time. They did it to hang around with the other kids in the neighborhood. The corps provided the instruments, and the basic instruction. The kids with more talent learned to play well. The kids with less talent played the best they could. That was why, even in the big corps, the third soprano and third baritone parts in all corps were pretty basic. Can you imagine some of today's brass arrangers actually having to tailor their charts to fit the ability of their players? Of course they do have to make those choices in many of the "lesser", or Open Class corps. But not for the top units. According to Mr drillman, and other posters, those top units are the only ones who should be allowed to exist. Well; guess what? You elitists are about to get exactly what you wished for. I hope you like it.

BITD the corps management would have thanked the kids very much for their interest in joining. They would give them the phone numbers of fifty other local corps, and would have sent the kids down the street to another corps who might be very glad to have them. In the case of the Cavaliers the kids could go to the Royal Airs, or the Norwood Park Imperials, or the Skokie/Des Plaines Vanguard, or the Racine Kilties, just to mention a few BIG corps. There were also quite a few smaller units, like the Nisei Ambassadors, or the Purple Lancers, or Phantom Regiment, or the Shaumberg Guardsmen, or the Spectacle City Mariners, or the Jackson Raiders, or many others. Those kids would have been able to find a home if they were really serious. Unfortunately, the quest for artistic fulfillment by the anointed few has blasted any ideas of local community service for the area's youth. There are posters on this board who have stated their opinion that all but 6 or 7 existing corps ought to shoot themselves in the head because they have no hope of attaining the pinnacle of magnificence reached by those favored few. There are no local corps, those ones who actually provided real music education to the youth of this country, still operating. Posters always claim that "today's youth" have so many more choices, and thus are uninterested in drum corps as an activity. Perhaps, if DCI hadn't spent the last 40 years telling those kids to "Drop Dead" there might be more interest in drum corps. No chance of that happening, of course. Way to go, DCI. As it stands today they could still help those 350 kids to find a corps to march with. That corps might be 500, or 1000 miles away. But the referral would still help a few kids.

Just so you'll all know: BITD ALL corps put instruments in the hands of completely untrained members. NO corps required auditions. The only thing any kid had to do was show up at rehearsal and express a desire to participate, from the Cavaliers, and the Blessed Sacrament Golden Knights to the Hot Shots of Hyde Park Ma, and the Walden-France Post of Danville Va.

BINGO!!! At last someone has come out and nailed the truth right on Emperor DCI's bare buttocks. They have no interest in music education AT ALL. A person has to be already musically educated in order to even try out for participation with a DCI corps. How are those kids supposed to get that education? To quote the late great Tom Lehrer, "That's not my department, said Werner Von Braun."

The really sad thing about this exercise is that all of these corps, and many thousands more are not really forgotten. No matter what their level of proficiency they are all remembered by the people who recalled them for this thread, and by everyone who ever marched with them. This list hasn't even begun to scratch the surface of the totality of what drum corps was. Of course, many of these corps were among the best in their day. Many had more modest success. But all of them were, and are, important parts of the lives of those who participated. They are all gone now, beyond any hope of resurrection. The kids in all those cities and towns will never have the opportunity to participate in drum corps at any level. Of course, they do have all those other, reportedly, wonderful things to do with their spare time. Really?

I concur. The next day my wife and I flew back to Boston, via O'Hare. There were quite a few members of the Scouts on the plane with us. Naturally they were still "over the moon.". But the thing I was most struck by, the thing they kept returning to again and again in their happy, bubbling recounting of the previous evening, was how absolutely astonished they were that they had won. Even the next day they still couldn't quite believe it. I had figured them for third behind BD and SCV. Even today I think that finish would have been proper. And I mean no offense to the superlative performance that Madison put on. They were wonderful. However, BD and SCV absolutely took my breath away.

I believe that driving financially marginal corps into going bankrupt was part of the overall DCI Master plan for getting the activity where they wanted it to be. In my opinion they, DCI, took drum corps away from tens of thousands more kids than they ever gave it to.

"All I read was, "We can't make enough money to be good blahblahblahblahblah..." It sounded great until it was stated that money and placement were PROVEN to be equated. There is a reason some corps aren't here anymore." TimK is right. drillman might want to work on his reading comprehension skills.

You are right. George is not responsible for the current, catastrophic condition the the DCI administration has, possibly unwittingly, led the activity into. Not George alone. There is more than enough culpability to go around. However, George is unquestionably THE prime mover. He is a drum corps guy. He grew up in the activity. And he is undoubtedly a thoughtful, intelligent, and persuasive advocate for what passes for "forward thinking" in DCI. He is very influential. And he is an astute businessman. As I said; he IS a drum corps guy, not one of those "outsiders" whom the ol' skool people like to blame for "destroying" drum corps. So, I believe that he, and his coterie, have very carefully calculated each and every step they have made along a long planned out path toward the current situation. There is no doubt that the quality of today's drum corps is at an all time high. I count that as small consolation when weighed against the virtual destruction of the activity.. Under DCI's stewardship over 95% of the pre-DCI corps, many of whom were in existence for many decades, and who were very successful at the National level, were wiped out. Examples would include BSGK, NorwoodPark Imperials, Belleville BK, Audubon, St Kevins EK, 27, Des Plaines Vanguard, Sky Ryders, Argonne Rebels, Anaheim Kingmen, and many more. Others were reduced to relative competitive irrelevance by their inability to generate millions of dollars in operating costs. You all know who they are. Drum corps today costs megabucks to operate. Every "refinement" DCI has put in place increases those costs. This is being done quite deliberately to keep out the "riff raff". This puzzles me greatly because, BITD, we were all riff raff. Seriously; today's pitifully few corps generate millions of dollars annually. This we know. What we don't know quite so clearly is; where is all this money going? Even the richest corps are just glad to make their "nut" with a few bucks left over for the year ending banquet.. Someone is getting rich here! If it isn't the corps, then who? Well there are the instrument manufacturers, the uniform and equipment suppliers for sure. A good potion goes to the instructors, to the judges, and more of it goes to the DCI for staff salaries and office expenses, to the corps directors for their salaries and expenses. Unless these folks are living very high off the hog there should be a hell of a lot more unaccounted for. In any case, somebody is getting rich, and it sure as shootin' isn't the kids who pay a fortune to break their ##### for the privilege of marching in drum corps. That's why things won't change. Somebody's getting rich here.