Piofan

Has anyone seen Pioneer? Have they changed or added to thier show? Haven't seen them for a couple of weeks so I don't know what is happening.

t was my understanding that a corps was judged against a standard, which would be a perfect score, and therefore judged upon thier own level of achievement toward that standard. So, are they really judged and compared to the corps that performed before them? In Pioneers case, that would be no one because they have always gone first, this year, unless preceeded by an open class corp or a DCA corps, which has, I presume, a different set of judging criteria.That being said, wouldn't a judge know that from Pioneers scores and placements in the past, even in past years, that there is every liklyhood that the next corps is going to be better, probably across the board. One of the responses to this question said that it is not uncommon for a corps to maybe have to score 5 points better than the corps above them to move up. If that is so, does that show a weakness in the scoring system? Problem is, music is a subjective, creative art form whatever the medium. To try to place a finite, objective number or placement on an art form has got to be flawed. That's why some people like classical music, some jazz, etc. But also like Howdy has said, it is a competitive art form. So with that goes all the uncertainties, opinions, and likes and dislikes that go with trying to place empirical data on something like this. Interesting. (BTW) Kansas does not allow thier musical arts to be judged for a score, only comments and ratings. (Which in itself is an subjective opinion due to biases and influences) Would drum Corps ever convert to ratings? Ist deivsion ratings would compete until mid season, second against seconds, then a reshuffeling after a regionjal for those co[ps that have shown reason to be reclassified? (That in itself would be judging, wouldn't it? Oh well, I guess I will just watch and enjoy and continue to disagree with the judging/scoring.

I have a question to you about judging. Since Pioneer is closing the gap on Jersey Surf, Teal Sound, etc. what will it take for the judges to actually place Pioneer with a higher score in a caption? My thought is this, people being what they are and even though we hope the judging is totally unbiased, Pioneer's reputation as being the doorstop for DCI Wc has got to come into mind when these judges score the corps. ALso, since they perform first in WC. does that predispose the judges to score them lower than any other following corps to make sure there is room for scores above them. Will it take a very obvious better performance to everyone for Pioneer to get the nod from a judge with a higher score than the other when in fact, they were better but maybe not overwhelmingly so? Finally, why does the order of performance always go from the lowest scoring corps to the presumed highest? That has to send out a message doesn't it? Why not a random draw, several days or weeks ahead of an event to determind the order? So what if the Blue Devils were to perform first and Pioneer last. Are they thinking that people won't stay for the whole event? Is it a "reward" of sorts to be a later playing corps? Just curious but definately looking to see if the cards are not stacked against us. I, for one, never assume that the status quo is always right especially when human judgement and perception is involved. If there is an unbalanced table due to human intervention and favoritism, it should be addressed. Thoughts?

Tonight, Mankato, they go over 60! and close the gap on Jersey Surf, who is somewhere else. Once the color guard gets all of it's part in place, they should be doing much better in that caption. Keep it up Pioneer!!

You have posted on here A LOT. I tend to agree with you. But you see how upset some people get when you adress what seems to be the underlaying cause for the Pioneer substandard performance. When you are that passionate about something, you tend to not think clearly, as is the case in some posts to my questions. It would seem that if you can't remain open and objective, you cannot hope to move forward. Sseems like some are content with that.

Not to worry. I have no child in this race this year. They have moved on.

Here! Here! Other corps/organizations are doing it. Pioneer should look into this since the public school fine arts programs are so down. This has worked for others, why not in Milwaukee?

Absolutly can accept that they aren't going to be a top 12. However, you can't be the doorstop for WC year after year, without wondering why. There has to be some organizational, philosophical reasons behind the perennial last place showings. If this is coming from a board or a director that cannot or will not accept thier results as being underachieving, than it's a moot point. Nothing will change. Pioneer will continmue as it has been, serving it's purpose as mentioned before. But for those that want better, to find a solution means finding out why it isn't working. It may not be fixable. It may not be broke in Romans eyes. Don't know. Just would like to know. Discussions with current board member(s) have shown that some are aware but they also know what they are up against. So, they cower and continue as is. So, I have had those discussions, as you mentioned. Does not seem to matter or there is no awareness of the situation. Discouraging, at best.