Quad Aces

I wasn't even referring to a decrease in revenue from the video sales, but if that were the case, it makes it an even bigger deal. I said that this situation last year was embarrassing for all parties involved in the issue. How ironic is it that music is a field that relies on copyrights not being infringed upon (we all have seen the ASCAP and BMI warnings on printed music that we've played before), and three corps didn't think that it would be a big deal if they didn't have ALL of their rights ducks in a row? I'm sure that all three of these corps (and DCI as well) would be pretty upset if someone used their product in ANY way without their full consent.

Criticism of a show concept really doesn't have anything to do with announcing a show early - it is going to happen whether a corps announces their show before the season starts or not, as not everyone will always like any given show. If a corps doesn''t announce their show, the criticism will just be delayed until after the first competition. I still would never go see a movie without knowing the slightest bit of information about it, including the title. Why is it not a good idea for movie studios to do that, but it's ok here?

So for $119 a pop for the Blu-Ray of Finals and 3 corps out of 12 performances (25%) having issues where parts of their shows are blacked out isn't that big of a deal? I think that's pretty embarrassing actually (even considering that DCI put the disclaimer on the web page order form - still doesn't change what appears on the product). Yes, "none of this stuff" affected the live performances, but that's only "ok" if everyone was able to see the live performances, which you're assuming with that statement. What about the people who order the videos because they are not able to go to any shows, and 25% of the performances on it are affected by rights issues? If that is their only way to view 2011, I wouldn't be too happy, especially if I were a Madison, Crown, or Cavaliers fan in that case. "And I'm sure Madison's staff had a good faith belief that they'd get the sync rights well before the season ended" - really? How'd that work out for them?? Is that the smartest way of doing business? I'd say this is a bigger deal than you are willing to admit, and If this happens in WGI as well, then I'd say they have a problem on their hands over there too...

There was a stretch in the late 90s where Madison planned out their shows for three years in a row all at once - I guess they didn't think it was so "absurd". Waiting until the entire season is just about over to find out after the fact if you have all of the rights in order for a show that you have been already performing the whole season isn't a big problem (and let's recall that was emphasized with a "NOT" in the response above)? Or having a performance blacked out on the DVDs isn't a big problem?? Certainly doesn't make the activity look better. Clearly if these things are happening, it is a bigger problem than just people griping on DCP. I'd hate to see what a big problem is then...

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Then what is the solution, Jeff, if rights are taking up to a year to secure? No, the staff may not be together the following year, but given these circumstances, it should be someone within the organization's (starting with the corps director) responsibility to plan this far in advance if that is what circumstances are dictating. Either that or figure out some way to speed up the process of securing the rights. I understand that this process could be a lengthy process, but almost a full year in some cases? I'd be willing to bet that even given the complicated nature of this process there would be room to speed this up. There are plenty of business deals that are more complicated than this that get negotiated in way less time than this. If something else isn't done, then each corps will be back in this same position every season, sitting on pins and needles waiting up until (in some cases it sounds like to the END of the season) to find out if your complete set of rights got approved or not, or got yanked last minute too. If securing rights is the reason that show announcements got so delayed this year, then it seems like this year is the worst that it has ever been for securing rights, which means that it probably will only get worse moving forward.

See the title of the discussion (with all due respect, but at this point I don't think that you deserve that)...

If it has gotten to the point where it takes a corps a year to secure all the rights that they need, then why don't more corps start planning their shows more than one season at a time? My guess is that they put themselves in this position by not starting to plan until late in the fall, then make a final decision on the show in the early winter, then start to secure the rights in the late winter/early spring - then repeat the following season.

What point am I missing and how is my comment OT? The title of the conversation is "DCI 2012 Programs" not "Let's Only Talk About the Drum Corps that Announced their Shows Well in Advance of the First Competition of the 2012 Season Thereby Keeping their Fans Who Support them in the Loop". That being the case, I would like to talk about Blue Knights 2012 program - oh wait, we still can't..

Why does not supporting a corps that doesn't engage their fans more seem so far-fetched? Isn't that the whole point? Don't the Cades engage their fans year round to garner more of their support? Will I want to spend more money at their souvie trailer or send in a donation because I like what they do in this area - yes. BTW, what also is so sacrilegious about not applauding (or only giving the token golf clap) because I don't like the show design that I just saw at a competition? Am I obligated to applaud fervently and give a standing ovation for every show that I see, even if I don't like the design? I didn't realize that that was a rule that came with my ticket purchase...

If your corps staff knew that it was going to be an uphill battle to secure rights to a particular piece, why not just pick a different piece early on in the design process and avoid waiting almost a year then to get permission? I'm sure no one wants to be the corps that gets "blocked" on the DVDs or audio recordings, making it look like they didn't do their due diligence. Why put yourself in that position in the first place? It's not like there isn't more music to choose from during the offseason...

Is this still even a realistic possibility three weeks before the first competition?? What happens if they don't get the rights in the next three weeks - will they start canceling appearances at competitions? What possibly can be a backup plan with three weeks to go? Sorry, I'm not buying it. If it takes this long to get rights, then you either had incredibly poor organizational skills and didn't start nearly early enough planning your show, or you should have chosen rep that would have gotten approved quicker than 9-10 months. That just seems totally unrealistic to me. Drum Corps never had this issue 10-15 years ago - DCI Today always had their preview issue that got snail-mailed to you with the shows in it a few months before the season started. Were rights so much easier to get back then?? Then all of a sudden, a few years back, Blue Devils made not releasing a stitch of info about your show the "cool" thing to do. Now everyone's doing it (except Cadets and a small few others)...

OK - I'd like to discuss the Blue Knights show this year. I'm not really the biggest Blue Knights fan, but I do like their shows from the last couple of years, and I like the direction they are headed. I'd like to get excited about their show this year, but I have no idea what they are going to be doing, and it's only a few weeks from the first competition. Am I more excited to see the other shows because I know what they are doing and have researched the source material - yes. See how this works?

If it is like stealing the nuclear launch codes to try and get a corps to announce what their show is going to be (which some still have not fully released yet), what leads you to believe that they would participate in something like this? This may be WAY too top secret info for some to divulge... My point is that there SHOULD be a way for DCI/each corps to engage their fans in the offseason (the end of August rolls around way too quickly, and then we're pretty much in the same boat that we are now). I believe that the Cadets hit upon something when they decided to treat their fans in this manner. Every corps/DCI could take the lead from them, but they probably won't, because we don't want this kind of information falling into the hands of the terrorists...

Wow - seriously?? I didn't realize that this issue needed to be proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt... So should the movie industry do away with releasing previews of the upcoming movies? Who needs to know anything about a movie before they go see it anyway?? How about the issue from the opposite point of view (and sorry perc2100 that it can't be "proven, substantial, and documented") - giving your fan base a preview of your show in terms of what you are planning can only serve to add to the anticipation of the show. What are the negatives? What are reasons (besides copyright issues) that a corps would NOT release a scrap of info (a la 2012 Blue Knights)? And perc2100, I'm looking for something a little more "proven, substantial, and documented" for that question other than "as corps see fit"...

You sure about that?? Have you seen any rep lists from the last, oh, 10-15 years or so??

So should the movie industry do away with releasing previews of the upcoming movies? Who needs to know anything about a movie before they go see it anyway?? Releasing a "preview" about a drum corps show has nothing to do with getting the Bears game plan ahead of time - bad analogy. A better analogy would be the Bears not releasing any information about the draft, free agency, or training camp in the offseason - zero, zip, nada, until the first game of the season. They don't HAVE to release anything either, but if that were to happen, I'd be willing to bet that that the Bears would have a lot of angry fans on their hands as well. Why don't they do that? To generate buzz and excitement for their fans about the upcoming season...

Who was the first corps to announce?

Now on to Blue Knights...

Well that I certainly can understand (I was actually referring to the Glassmen member that apologized earlier in the thread). Yes, true bashing of the organization publicly while being a member of said organization isn't really a good idea (and should be common sense)...

What exactly did he say in his post that could even be remotely twisted and taken the wrong way?? Just another example of drum corps taking itself WAY too seriously...

I totally disagree. It was a "big" announcement when Cadets announced their show in the beginning of September, more than nine months before the first competition and well before any other corps (even though the theme changed later). Bluecoats not having released more than the show title yet just reeks of being behind the 8-ball, and not something that all of a sudden is "big" news in the middle of May when they are among the last two or three to do so.

It this is the full show announcement and it was about three months ago, then it would be a "big" announcement. Now they will just look a little silly for calling this "big"...

Amen to that...