alumniof

I didn't march drum corps in the 60's or 70's. Respond to the reality of what I said, not try to attach what you want me to say so you can attack me and gain a supportive consensus. You can mind play yourself all you want but I caught it.

I'd like to see some corps, some how mock "the selfie". I think that would be funny. (I'll take the credit now if you see it). You're welcome.

BTW, I'm tired. See you guys in a few months.

An alumni corps does not do what I suggested. I have a feeling that the same response would occur if a tradition corps did what 27th did (yeah, that was an alumni corps but that's not the point - the point was they did the same music and same drill which is exactly what's reflected upon in the comments). Just listen at 11:08-12:48 to get the idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbTLV_kkw0E

Notb to change the subject on you here, but do you know how to put a slab of toothpaste back into the the tube ? I'm been trying to do so for years, but can't seem to come up with a way to put it back. Any suggestions ? What's funny about this is it's total hypocrisy. Not to change the subject is code for "to change the subject". Second - what's your point? There's no reason to put toothpaste back in the tube. Third - there are several ways to put it back in. This is like drum corps shows - "wow, that's a creative point - let me give it a great score". Yet, someone on here thinks it's a great point and funny. You all are watching to many youtube videos.

This has nothing to do with my love for the past, though, it is my reference point. Also, some of the anger at me is really unbelievable. Why? Because I'm your Joe Public. This is a true story - I went to Allentown last year - 1st show in 10 years. Why? It sucked 10 years ago and didn't feel like seeing more of it. To try to get me to do research and study to appreciate something is stupid. It sucked 10 years ago and it sucked last year. What sucked? Basically, all of the complaints alumni ##### about. There is a consensus. So, THAT'S REALITY. Moving forward - here was my observations of the crowd. They were bored. Out of their skulls. They just sat there and other than SCV - courtesy applause and courtesy ovations (I guess because they are kids). This isn't perception, this was reality. As I walked down the stadium ALL I HEARD was #####ing (kind of like on Drum Corps Planet). And what were they #####ing about? The same crap alumni is #####ing about on drum corps planet and other forums. The general audience are not YOU. I am more reflective of the general audience than you BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE IN ALLENTOWN. I brought my significant - she NEVER saw a drum corps show, but, she was in HS Marching Band. (BTW, I just realized I was in Atlanta in 2010 - obviously it was so memorable I completely forgot). Here is a FACT: There is a significant portion of the DCI alumni that DESPISES what's going on. Hates it, thinks it's ridiculous, pathetic, insulting, annoying, AND NONE OF IT HAS TO DO WITH THE KIDS. I heard them. I talked with them. On big #####-fest. The kids are merely participating in what's available - that's it. There are NO ALTERNATIVES. My significant was falling asleep. BORED! Why? Well, why are we trying to try and learn some subjective 10 dimensional life lesson, esoterically presented that is so unclear, twisted, to try and get. Music is supposed to be communication. It supposed to connect. Not isolate the listener. The corps aren't accomplishing this. This is not Stravinski. The average person (my significant other) wants to be entertained. That's why we ###### away over a grand to fly, rent, lounge, eat to Allentown. DCI is not entertaining TO A LARGE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE. Throw in my reference (my history in DCI) there is nothing for me to appreciate and everything for me to criticize. What's funny to me is all of you who are defending it. What are you watching that's enjoyable? Are we watching the same thing? I have a music education degree and I taught music in the schools, have a drum corps background. I'm not connecting. The thing is, entertainment should not require someone to watch something 10 times to appreciate it. I watch Olympic Figure Skating and I can see it once and appreciate it, like it, or not. Everything wants to be a circle. I didn't come to listen to your designers view of the world. Do I really love you? Really? Blue Devils Rite of whatever? Just because it's hard doesn't make it enjoyable. It's like watching chess or someone doing a mathmatics equation. Music is completely failing. How so? Look in your communities. Music is being cancelled in schools throughout the nation. Programs are getting smaller. Fewer people are caring. Who's fault is it? The audience? No - it's the music programs. The more they keep doing what they're doing, the more it fails. Does DCI have more or less corps than the 70's and 80's? Let me simplify it - how long do you feel like listening to someone who isn't clear and/or you can't understand them? How would you like for them to tell you that YOU are the problem because you don't appreciate them? If I want to sell a widget in China, do you think I should learn to speak Chinese. If I want to sell anything to anybody - maybe I should make them want what I'm selling. I don't want what's being served. And, there are no alternatives - so I'll ##### like everyone else and maybe someone will listen. But, we're dealing with music educators, not business people so guess where it will get me. Nowhere. And guess what happens - continual death to music education because nobody is listening to the people that keep them alive. Honestly, I don't think DCI will be here in 10 years. No way. It won't be able to sustain. I wouldn't bet my house - but I'd bet yours (that's a joke).

How much of the general crowd is made up of alumni? The tribute shows I'm thinking of are replica's - meaning it's the same music and the same drill, the same guard routine. Taking this further - how awesome and educational would it be to the kids? Let's say the show for 2014 is 1979 Spirit of Atlanta. They learn about the history of Spirit, bring in actual old performing members of Spirit to talk and work with the kids, learn the stories, about Jim Ott. Also, since this tribute corps isn't going to pull the best of the best kids - couldn't it almost be a training ground - I mean the drill is so easy and the music not as difficult - it's almost a perfect landing place for the kids who didn't make Crown, Cadets, Devils, etc; Paying homage and respect to the history and legacy I think would make alumni feel relevant, proud, not forgotten and if anything just a break from what is, what's current. The fact there is no electronics would be reason enough to give a standing ovation before they played a single note.

The thing is - there's alot of #####ing from alumni - especially on other sites - that drum corps doesn't exist anymore. It's band minus the woodwinds (for now). It's a legitimate gripe. To me, the identity changed when the key changed. It's not only the key that changed - the signature sound changed. It's what defined drum corps. When the sound changed - it's no longer drum corps anymore than if you put electronic violins, cellos, violas and basses playing 21st century music is "an orchestra". Not really, not what defines orchestra. Well, I'm getting away from the original post - but I think if a drum and bugle came out, was strictly a tradition corps, I think it would be good for the activity and if I could get my face split apart and get a history relive at the same time - I'd GLADLY pay to hear it, see it, connect to it and I think it could work. Ultimately, I think kids would rather be loved than scored against something that they're not even trying to compete with. Bridgeman and Velvet Knights KNEW they weren't going to ever win DCI. Didn't matter to the members, did it? I marched a corps that I KNEW wouldn't win but sit in the middle of the pack. Other than the corps ahead of me and behind me, didn't really care. ANd isn't that what the staff (unless things changed) preach to the kids, that it's about touching people's lives? Anyway, don't really know how much all this matters because the ONLY people in the stands are band parent's, music educators, band kids and alumni - so at least 1/2 of the crowd will love what's being done. And anyone that wouldn't appreciate history, well, then there is too much wrong to get into in this thread.

You know what's funny, if Cadets decided to pull out G Bugles and do some historic show, it would be "innovative", score well because it's Cadets and who knows what would happen next? More specifically to your thread, "living in the past". I think pretty much every orchestra concert known to man is living in the past. I mean, seriously - Handel, Bach being played on ancient violins and cellos - and playing all that old music. I mean, what's up with that? Turn the page already.

For me (underscore - for me) - drum corps was lost when they went to Bb. I'm thinking, based on age of alumni - 70's and 80's. Don't know how many people in the stands marched in the 60's. And since you'd be hard-pressed to find video of anything in the 60's is another reason.

Ccorps - do you have anything else to do besides write No...next thread?

Ccorps. Your posts are compelling.

Everybody exploded when the Troopers did their Sunburst. One move and you woulda thought someone announced that Hopkins retired.

Let's say a corps forms. This hypothetical corps is called "Tradition". They field 128 members and their SOLE PURPOSE is to perform OLD SHOWS. I'm talking - exactly true to the original - same score, same drill moves. For modernization sake, they have their own uniform, updated equipment (meaning they have a pit versus marching timpanis), they perform on G Bugles. The show could either be "an entire show" (for example 1980 Bridgeman) - or they would do combination (First they perform T.O.; then Elks Parade; then In the Stone; then Ice Castles. (Their end set would be the first set of the new song). This corps, called TRADITION, tours with it, competes (knowing they're not competitive) - however - they are a fan favorite in a big way (because it emotionally reaches, tributes history, alumni, tradition, etc;). Would this work? Would you like to see an organization be a tribute corps and exist among the ranks of touring drum corps? (I have a lot of free time on my hands today so mind is spinning).

I don't think demand is what drives drum corps - clearly. DCI does what it wants, how it wants without any concern over "demand". It's a closed organization and the students are basically "follow the leader". Demand, in my opinion, can be created and manufactured. Speaking of which - did you all see the new series "Mindgames" that premiered last night. I think drum corps planet types would enjoy it.

Do you think bugle corps could ever exist again - either through the development of a new circuit/organization (I'm speaking G Bugles)....or....transformation (for example - DCA renegading and becoming a drum and bugle corps organization). I'm speaking - competitive youth. Sorta like what the USFL did in trying to compete with the NFL? I'd LIKE to see it. I mean - apparently there is more demand then spots for the current corps, am I correct? So, could there be another organization they could go to that's "apples to apples" meaning - competitive touring drum corps for youth. I really feel, based on the alumni of past corps that if a drum and bugle corps circuit began to replace what's happened, there would be not only the parents of the kids, music educators, but also all of the ###### off alumni cheering it on. I mean - where else are you going to get that sound? I even think after some years there would be those choosing the new drum and bugle corps versus the DCI bands experience of today. All those "rejected" kids would have some place to go. The reason I'm discluding DCA for as it is today is for the arguments brought up in past posts about kids wanting to compete. Plus, I really think if a DRUM and BUGLE corps were somewhere and it was a SOLID GREAT corps, I bet you'd see all the kids in DCI flocking to the fences to watch it and think "oh crap - wow - that's awesome - they're so loud - that's cool - I want to play a bugle". Could be wrong. But, I could be right or somewhere in between. Whattayathink?

I noticed at the Olympics during the figure skating - think it was short program - everyone did a "Swing" routine. I got to thinking - I wouldn't mind seeing this be implemented - all corps for 2014 must do (for example) Jazz. Or, Movie Soundtracks. Or, the music of Copeland. Theme the season. Then let's see what these designers do within that kind of a box, let's see what they do with that. At least there will be some organization to this Wild Wild West. Just a thought. Don't hyperventilate. I'm just 1 member of Joe Public and former alumni. (for my haters here).

DCI is about DCI. It's not about the public. Neither are the fans, which are band parents, music educators and alumni. It's a closed activity that has no choice but to perform in a public venue. If there was a way out of that, they would. Additionally, band has NEVER been about the public in recent memory EXCEPT FOR on the collegiate level. Other than band parents, nobody cares about the band. It's hot dog and rest room time at football games and band contests are only the kids parents. Shows are not designed to entertain the public. Therefore, music educators and the attitude of the "club" are creating their own death. Because, every time a music conductor stands up to a microphone and says "write your legislatures" - yeah, okay...we ran out of toilet paper, where's that band letter. The Boston Pops will NEVER go away. Your local orchestra playing that hour long symphony - yeah, why would anybody representing the general public sit through that "really technically hard" crap? Same with DCI. The novelty of the uniforms, movement and music outside get's old in the second half of the second corps on. Oh wait, let me wait until Crown comes on because they do this really cool move. Yeah, okay. DCI will not grow and they are such destruction"ists" that they #### off their alumni. Imagine if college football (I would call them successful) F'D' you'd their alumni? How do you think that would go. This is why musicians and musical organizations are poor broke. This is why pop/rap/and other genre's succeed - they PLAY what the music public wants - if it doesn't sell - they bail out on it because IT IS ABOUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC. So, they sell out stadiums (Garth Brooks) while DCI plays with themselves and feels all good about how much they're doing for the world - which is nothing outside of themselves.

Just for fun - two questions. Play predictor of DCI's future. Question 1 - when will woodwinds be admitted into the activity (and or strings)? Question 2 - what does DCI look like in 5 years? I'll go first. I think in 5 years woodwinds will be in. Strings will be allowed in within 3. DCI in 5 years will see changes in the guard where it will lean more towards modern dance and a break from traditional guard. Shows will look more like Super Bowl Halftime Shows and focus will be on visual with use of lighting/lasers and other effects.

Question was not about the scoring - it was about the content of the shows and how that would change.

Concert pitch is so annoying. Hear it all year long in concert band, marching band, jazz band. Very percussive and boring.

Most of the shows aren't home shows for any corps and championships are always in Indy.

What would happen if the scoring system was eliminated completely and the corps were judged by the audience (just follow me and use your imagination). How do you think the corps shows/content would change? I believe DRASTICALLY. If the audience were the judges and determined who won night after night and the championships - you would have corps playing for the audience and not the judges and the content - I believe would be AMAZING, INCREDIBLE.

The yoga poses in band uniforms are so cool. I mean, what's cooler. I see all of the athletes just crowding at the fences to watch all those poses staring in envy. It's so impressive that nobody, other than alumni, band parents and music educators know or care about it. High level doesn't mean anything. People aren't concerned about high level, they're concerned about being entertained (news flash) - which is why outside of the demographic just mentioned, nobody cares or think it's cool and even though they 'may' not say it - the term band geek has never been more true to definition and amplified than in DCI.

Seriously - me and my significant are going to Allentown this year for the following reasons. One, they serve the best hamburger at Bethlehem Hotel (in the world). Two, there is a music festival every year in Allentown at that time. Three, watching DCI outside is a nice venue at night. Fourth, we LOVED making fun of the shows. As a member of the public, I'm entitled to my opinion. I paid my ticket and between ourselves, we (last year) sat there and laughed at everything laughable (12-13 minutes of GEEK on display), especially show designs, electronics, voice overs, some esoteric life message (everything wants to be a circle and do I really love you) with geeks in band uniforms doing ballet - how can you not laugh at this freak show? Is excellent and technical musicianship and bleeding hearts for kids supposed to override the humor? No way! Our punchline mantra was "the kids worked really hard/they're good kids" because everything sucked (meaning I wasn't entertained). Now, this is an opinion. It's obviously not yours but your opinion is no more valuable than mine. It's authentic and honest - and very direct. If you want to stamp your self-induced prima donna attitude and aggression at it - go ahead - but DCI is GEEKS GONE WILD. There are a handful and most "wow that was cool" but there is nothing that sticks that makes me want to see a corps more than once. The first purpose in entertainment, is entertaining your audience. Other than SCV, all applause and standing "O's" were courtesies because, well......"they're good kids/they worked really hard". Enjoy the summer band camp experience performing nothing more than for drill designers trying to outdo one another for bragging rights. And I know this post will be blasted because negative opinions are always attacked, but, DCI is not the only organization keeping kids of the street and not all the good kids are doing music and nothing else. If the goal is to give the kids something productive to do so they don't do drugs, drink - well, then, okay - it's a success. But don't mindscrew yourself into thinking that DCI is so wonderful that only through that (or band) can kids be good or successful. MOST SUCCESSFUL people were not in band if success is defined financially. Depends how you define success, right.