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jsd

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    The Romantics - Blue Devils 2024

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted · Edited by jsd

    1 hour ago, theonlyfizzle said:

    You better do Lol.. ha ha... Well do whatever you please, even if you chose not to go lol.. But if you come across anything from BD camp, you can share thoughts without spoilers right ?

    My daughter is Hermia in "Midsummer" at her school, and she should have been getting ready for her performance, but she instead texted me, "Blue Devils are at Rod?" I asked her, "Are the big trucks there?" When she responded "yes", I was like, "thank you for that intel!" She had the opportunity to educate her friends on BD. "Yeah, my Dad marched and taught with them. They are pretty awesome."

    And yes...if I make it out there, I will DEFINITELY post any intel I can gather without spoilers. 

    Season is almost here!

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    Can We Just...

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Can we just enjoy the fact that we get to witness Finals, and that we have had the opportunity to enjoy what has been an amazing season from so many corps?

    It was not long ago that the world was on lockdown. Here we are, basking in the brilliance that is the corps, designers, and most importantly, the members.

    We all have our favorites. That's ok. Let's just enjoy tonight, scores and placements be ######...

     

     

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    Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    25 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

    DCI is unique as a competitive organization. Do they have a responsibility to create the fairest competitive environment, or do they have the responsibility to create the best member experience? 

     

    Those are two entirely different questions, with two entirely different answers. 

    How would you suggest that DCI make the competitive balance any "fairer" than it is right now? 

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    13 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

    you believe what you want. it's clear nothing said...by many people in many threads with great experience sitting behind an ipad...will chaneg your mind. and then you'll just keep beating dead horses on here every time who you want to win doesn't.

     

    the judging philosophy, the sheets, the criteria...everything has been explained to you. you don't like it, so you just keep spinning round and round

    Like Mandarins!!! 🙃

    • Haha 1

    Mandarins 2023

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    I have been around/adjacent to Mandarins since they were the little Div. III "corps that could". They have always been interesting and fun to root for/pull for. Their evolution over the years has been fun to watch.

    And, then...

    "Sinnerman".

    Well conceived, well plotted, well designed, and INCREDIBLY well performed. In what can be a cookie cutter activity, Mandarins have brought something fresh and invigorating to the field. For that, they deserve their "just rewards". 

    Here's looking towards tonight with the hope that they dig a little deeper, push a little stronger, and leave no doubt as to their imprint on the 2023 season. Thank you, Mandarins, and I look forward to watching one more performance of your show. 

    I know in BD land, we say "do it up, Devils!!!" I offer this for tonight: "Make it Magical, Mandarins!!!" 

    • Like 8

    Dci fans should be ashamed of themselves

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    11 hours ago, DWW11 said:

    I get what the OP means and he isn’t wrong. there were many cheering in my section but the overall response seemed to be a tepid acknowledgement that BD was great. And i get it, but the kids deserve more. I WILL add that the ballad doesn’t get a standing O, i think, because no one wants to break the spell!  It feels wrong to make a lot of noise as those notes fade away. 

    I remember asking my director that I designed for (in a show that was crushing it score-wise), "How come no one is applauding?" He replied, "They don't want to interrupt." 

    • Like 2

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    59 minutes ago, Cappybara said:

    This happens with every judge. People will claim BD bias loudly and proudly until a result proving otherwise finally shuts the stupidity up. When you’re consistently cream of the crop year after year, it’s easy to accuse every DCI judge of bias towards BD

    Same thing with Chumley. Do you have "the package" and perform the crap out of it? You get points. Down year, not so much in the way of performance? You will be scored accordingly.

    Here's the kicker, though: Blue Devils do NOT have down years. Therefore, they are rewarded accordingly. 

    • Like 1

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    4 hours ago, ContraFart said:

    Well I started out this thread by honestly not knowing how content and achievement scores were interconnected, and some people including you gave me some really great information.  @jwillis35 gave a great explanation which I appreciated and understood where he was coming from but I wondered why content was separately scored and not just incorporated into the box rubrics. I then mentioned that when DCI judges are criticized, the defense is always their fallibility and the limitation of what they can see rather than in philosophy itself, then I made the comparison to figure skating when it comes to objective comparisons, which became the hyper fixation and the thread devolved from there. 

    So what is the broader conversation? I guess I just want challenge the current philosophy and at least have people think about how we got to the current judging system and if there is still room for improvement. Judging art seems like an impossible task which needs to always be examined in my opinion. 

    I have been told that the best way for me to understand is to become a judge myself. I am not against that idea, but as I stated earlier in this thread my location gives hurdles to that idea. At the same time I also feel like its telling a person that has questions about God to go to church, which in one perspective is a perfectly rational idea, but completely ludicrous in another perspective. Am I going to have a broad philosophical conversation, or be told how to believe? 

    Maybe I am too Socratic for a message board because every time I keep broadening the question, I am accused of moving the goal posts. 

    I don't disagree. There is ALWAYS room for improvement, and I have to believe that DCI strives to achieve that, year in and year out. 

    As far as "too Socratic", I don't perceive you in that way. "Socratic Seminars" have been used by me all the time in over thirty years of education. There's nothing wrong with asking the questions. 

    I appreciate you, ContraFart. 🙂

    • Like 1

    Colts 2023

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    Long time BD honk here, dropping into this thread to express some gratitude...

    While I am thoroughly enjoying the artistry, genius, and execution that BD is putting on display this year, I have to say that Colts literally have upended me this year. F### scores, (although "bravo" for breaking 90!), f### placement...what the designers and performers are giving to the audience is magical.

    For years, the Mars practice facility in Concord was "home". For years, Raider Hall in San Jose was "home". For. years, there were multiple high school that I designed for and taught at that were "home". What Colts are putting on the field reminds me of those places and times, and I am grateful for that (plus, I am a sucker for their musical book selections). 

    When I watch their show, I am fully aware that the designers have something in mind, and the performers have something in mind, and the audience will engage with the show with something in mind. 

    All I know is this: I believe that this show transcends the activity of "drum and bugle corps", and puts itself squarely in the position of "artistic excellence". They possibly will never know the impact that they have had on their audience, but I wish they did.

    Whenever something artistic is created and put out for public consumption, the designers/performers have no idea what the reception will be. The Colts this year have achieved something that moves beyond the "nuts and bolts" of pageantry and takes us to whatever place "home" may be. I honestly feel honored to watch them and their excellence.

    "Dome Sweet Dome". Get 'em, Colts.  

    • Like 5

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    2 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

    This might be what some think but no a corps could not score a max 10 in achievement when their content is a 5. Take brass. If a corps is judged to have a content score of 7.1 and their achievement is 6.8, the judge will not reward the corps with a content score of 5 with an achievement score of 8. Both content and achievement are weighted to things like demand, musicality, performance and competitive rank. 

    Example: 

    Corps A performs - they are ok but the brass book is easy and they are playing it fairly well. Judge may assign CONT 4.5 and ACHV 4.3.

    The judge is essentially saying you are playing your book close to the level of demand/musicianship (or lack of). Some may think "well why isn't the ACHV score closer to a 9.0?" The content is too easy for a 9.0+ in ACHV. The best that corps could do in ACHV is maybe a 4.7 or 4.8, and that would likely be closer to end of season -- providing their CONT score was still 4.5. This is where Box 1-5 come into play. If your CONT is somewhere in Box 2 (very easy side) then your max ACHV score will be weighted to that Box 2 as well as to the competing corps around you that are in a similar Box in terms of demand/content. 

    Here the judge is saying you are matching or exceeding the performance of a fairly easy book. But...keep in mind that matching or exceeding does not mean perfect, and just playing the notes does not mean it is musical.

    More importantly because there has to be competitive balance you just can't give an easy book a 9.5 or better in ACHV. That is reserved for corps who demonstrate much higher demand in content/musicality as related to their performance. So these things are boxed off. 

    If you want your ACHV scores in brass to potentially get into the 9.0+ range then you need your CONT score to be in the 9.0+ range...or at least an 8.8 to 8.9. Most brass lines never get there. Those that do are able to raise the level of both CONT and ACHV by having a very demanding book that will be shaped musically through the season. The demand may be there from day one, but the musical shaping of the book changes and that usually ramps up the CONT number. 

     

    Freaking spot on. 

    And, to those who say that this is all "subjective", let me remind you that the elements of art and principles of design have been with us forever, and are guideposts for the individuals who adjudicate this activity we love. 

    Put it this way: which is easier to "achieve"? The performance of a Travis Scott song or a performance of Rachmaninoff's Third Piano Concerto? In the context of drum corps, which should receive the higher number if both are achieved at the maximum level?

    • Like 1

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    1 hour ago, ContraFart said:

    That doesn't make sense to me. You can go out and play a few major chords with perfect balance and sonority and get the maximum achievement from minimum content.

    I thought the entire reason they went to a content/achievement system was to discourage designing content under the level of the corps so you can't go out with a simple show and win. 

    I don't disagree with you. But, if you are designing at a lower level than your competitors, the scores will reflect that. They have to, based on the sheets, balance out. While the achievement score can outrank the content score, they will reflect one another. Like I wrote, if your content is being outscored by your achievement, it is time to go back to the drawing board. If it is not too late. 

     

    Looking at you, Bluecoats and Crown. 

    • Like 1

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    4 hours ago, ContraFart said:

    I get what you are saying, and I really wasn't trying to throw snark to @TheOneWhoKnows. However here is how I am understanding things:

    If the achievement score is relative to your content score, then at some point content will max out (unless you are adding and layering) and you can perform the content to its maximum effectiveness. i.e. You can have a super easy show with a 5.0 content and a 10.0 achievement.

    If the achievement score is relative to the rank and rate system of other corps, then content and achievement are used as separate measuring sticks and the achievement score would say that a higher score is cleaner. I can see how it sounds sort of the same, but if the achievement score were only tied to the content score, then a 10.0 in achievement would not mean as much when you have a 5.0 content score.

    No group is scoring a 10 in achievement if their content is a 5. The sheets are not built that way. There has to be a balance between the two. If the show is a 5, then there is not much to actually achieve. 

    DCI Judging - YT Video by Funliner Productions

    in DCI World Class Corps Discussions

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

    No offense, but that was not a satisfying answer. The achievement scores being relative to both the content score and the achievement of other corps makes no sense to me. 

    The best way I can explain it is this: Content is what you do, achievement is how well you are doing it. In my years of design, I knew I had a potential problem if the achievement scores were higher than the content scores, because the "content" numbers are what ultimately separates one group from another. In other words, I never minded seeing an achievement number being lower than the content number, because that meant that there was some work to be done in the cleaning department (like there always is throughout the season). However, if the achievement score was higher than the content score, that would bring up the question, "How do we make the show better?" In that case, the message from the judge could be taken as , "you are doing this at a very high level, but "this" is not as well designed as that, that, and that." 

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