Boss Anova

Yes, Boston Crusaders " Poached " them. 😊

Yes. That is correct, and we all came to that specific role conclusion above after Jim Mason decided to come over, ie was " poached " ,from the Colts to the then start up Corps In Indiana at the time for 1985 that named themselves the Star of Indiana. Cesario decided to come over ie " was poached " from the Cadets for that 1985 season. Larry Kerchner was Star of Indiana's brass arranger, not Jim Mason for that first season. ( Later years, Jim Prime came in worked Brass there. ).

I agree. Cavaliers really did need to do something on the Visual ( and Guard, imo ) side, and this is a positive start in that direction for them.

Just for a hypothetical example though, if Crown was poached here in 2023, that would replenish any " juice " the merri go round " poaching " thread might need at the moment, Joe😊.

I do as well. I even recall some there saying the staff that left for Boston were " getting stale " and a it was "time for a change". One can even go back here on DCP if so inclined to read those sentiments still visible there. When Crown made changes last season at this time and abruptly fired their percussion staff to bring in Shah & Jackson ( that the last time they were in DCI was 2019 with Blue Knights ), many on here from Crown really did not have very good things to say about that percussion staff either.... that had served them well there, imo. I'm not so sure Percussion was mostly what was holding them back in 2022 either with their " Right Here, Right Now " show. Oh well, not my concern. Back on topic... there are more staff changes coming. I know it. It'll be anounced soon enough...

Well, its not exactly as cut and dried as that, You know Joe ?. Covid in 2020-2021 ring a bell for you ? When Shah/ Jackson were there their last competition season in 2019, BK was 7th. That was their last gig in DCI, before they went to Crown after 2022 season. Maybe in retrospect as I think this through, Shah/ Jackson did not go directly to Carolina Crown from BK, and instead maybe utilized the name of Jeff Sacktig a marching alum of Cadets for a couple pf years ( Cadet of the year in '87 ) and visual designer at Cadets and also Cadet2 for many years being " poached " by Carolina Crown from the Cadets for the 2017 season. But I "see the difference" now. Sacktig is probably a better example of immediate season to season " poaching ", which is what I think you are looking for here😊.

Its been a tough couple of years with staff turnover there at the Blue Knights. Not only visual staff turnover there, but Carolina Crown brought in, ie " poached " the Percussion team of Mike Jackson, Kevin Shah to Crown at the end of 2022.

Its a distinction without a difference re. Jim Mason, imo. He was " poached " from Colts. His role at Star in that " poaching " is secondary, albeit I agree in retrospect that he served in Mgt there when he first came on at the end of 1984.. Kerchner was there when Mason arrived. Mason, Prime later took over brass writing there. Zingali was " poached " originally by the Cadets from 27th Lancers, although most back then never used the term as it was understood that staff moving from Corps to corps happened all the time. Zingali going to the Star of Indiana, I believe happened in the year I mentioned above ( end of the 1984 ). Cesario moved around a lot back then, and Mason brought him on, ie " poached " him to Star from Cadets. I mentioned in my comments above that it was not unusual for in demand staffers to work 2 Corps simultaneously. I am aware that Zingali was designing visuals for Cadets thru 1988. But I believe ( could be mistaken on this) George Z. was also writing for start up Star in 1985. Delucia came over from the Bridgemen to Star for 85 season. Bridgemen went 3 more seasons and went belly up in 1988. My central point is that Star of Indiana, right from the get go for their inaugural 1985 season had brought in, ie " poached " an All Star cast of show designers and big names in Drum Corps staff circles, all of whom were working with the elite Corps in DCI, or had been 2-3 years earlier. I find nothing wrong with this on the part of the well funded Star of Indiana. They were entirely unlike any other start up corps in Drum Corps history. From day one in the fall of 1984, they had 1 million dollars of seed money in the bank ( that would be over 2 million dollars in 2023 money ). They utilized that ( and the rent from purchases of a few real estate holdings ) to go out and bring in, ie " poach " some of the best staffers in the business that were working other corps. I don't any issues at all with what they started out with. Good for them. As a matter of fact, I wish DCI had a dozen more multi millionaires like Bill Coats starting up Drum Corps today..

There seems to be collegial and good relationship between the Cadets and the Boston Crusaders, now that G7 architect George Hopkins has been revealed to all that he is untrustworhy and of low character and has been booted from DCI. Besides, Colin McNutt is born and raised in Massachusetts ( Falmouth ). marched Boston Crusaders, taught Boston Crusaders.. before later winding up being the Percussion writer for the Cadets. When Colin returned to the Crusaders in 2016, there was thus more the sense he was " coming home ", than being " poached " from the Cadets. Corps staff have moved from Corps to Corps for decades, and even predates the formation of DCI in 1972. So there really is nothing new under the sun with this. But some recent alums/ fans seemingly prefer to use the pejorative " poaching " when staffs leave and decide to go to another Corps. Its kind of silly, imo, but maybe we can stick with this silly word this off season if some are so inclined.😊

The best at the practice of “ poaching “( dislike that word , but some New Kids on the Block like to use this pejorative these days I guess , so why not ) was the Star of Indiana . The Star of Indiana set the standard for making attractive contract and freedom of creativity outreach to who they wanted to design and teach there . The Star of Indiana as a start up Corps in 1984 with a 1 million dollar gift from millionaire Bill Cook of Indiana went out and immediately “ poached “ Music Arranger Jim Mason from the Colts , then “ poached “ visual design icon George Zingali , then Marc Sylvester Drill writer and Michael Cesario Guard and Visuals ... all from the Cadets . Then Star of Indiana “poached “that same year Dennis DeLucia ,Percussion Arranger from the Bridgemen . It was one full swoop of Drum Corps All Star Staff , in one year alone, and Star was soon off and running . ( good for them ). Nothing has come close before or since in bringing in All Star staff from outside the Corps to one start up, non finalist Drum Corps in all 5 sections of Music Writing, Visuals Writing , Brass , Percussion and Guard as did the start up Star of Indiana. Drum Corps in 1984. Back then it was not unusual also for some staff to teach at Corps that competed vs, one another, similar to how Michael Klesch more recently simultaneously wrote for Academy and Carolina Crown.

Sept. 5th this year is the Official "Poaching " Announcement Day ( OPAD ). Let the " poaching " announcements begin ! 🐓 😀

What time zone ? 😊

I think that’s a valid point perhaps overlooked too . 8 Corps is an even number , where you could have 4 corps before intermission , and 4 after intermission . So why 7 ? Well the G7 chief architect Hopkins did not want to include the Crusaders as he liked them far better when they were essentially an east coast unpaid feeder corps to his east coast Cadets for 2 decades . He liked that arrangement as they were 16th-30th in most of those 2 decades . But when he concocted his G7 scheme , the Crusaders had risen up the ranks and were sitting a bit better in the 5th-10th range most seasons . What better way then to bury the Crusaders or put them back to a non Finalist Corps and with no future threat to his Cadets than to exclude them from his G7 scheme ? Ironically , had Hopkins asked the Crusaders to join up with his idiotic , ill thought out plan , the Boston Crusaders would have declined it anyway I’m told as they did not trust him as far as they could throw him on just about anything . As future events played out, his character was revealed so no need to go any further on that I would imagine . Now fast forward , and the Cadets and the Crusaders both have come through that sad saga period well, and have far better relations with new mgt there … as have most all the other Corps come thru that period well . DCI is alive and kicking today principally because Corps like the Boston Crusaders and the other non G7 Corps stood their ground, and the other G7 Corps in due time abandoned the G7 scheme and with Hopkins later summarily sent packing by DCI . Finally, No need to go over how Boston has most recently helped a few former G7 Corps financially and otherwise when they needed help during a difficult stretch . Craiga alluded to it above , and we can just leave it at that . Enjoy your Labor Day weekend fellow DCP’ers, and best of success and enjoyment to all the Corps and fans at the DCA Championships this weekend !👍

No need to overreact . The discussion here is about the “ G7 video “. As far as I know the thread topic was not even started by Craiga , LabMaster , Liahona , Fighterkit , nor any BAC alum nor fan . The thread was started by someone unaffiliated with the Corps . There is no “ vengeance “ sought , as events played out in methodical fashion since then . Sure it was karma , but it was never the intent nor the goal . The goal was to improve the Crusaders and make them better in all areas of operation , including marcher safety and marcher learning and enrichment experience . Not “ vengeance “.. Jeesh . None of the Corps Directors of the G7 are in their positions of Directorship from back then anymore anyway . It is they that have moved on , and relationships in DCI among all the Corps are much better today than they were back then . DCI is more collegial now among all the corps than those dark days where vengeance upon other corps was very real and very much a goal of a select few . But yes , time has moved on from this , and DCI is doing ok , even after the pandemic. The wounds have healed now among all the Corps . As near as I can tell anyway , Jurassic Lancer . Enjoy your weekend , by the way 👍

The meeting of the G7 was secret .. behind closed doors . It was not collegial , nor did they really care about the others . If their scheme was implemented it would have killed off the other Corps for certain . But they did not care . If they did , they would have never agreed to have a secret meeting behind closed doors , and without DCI’s notification , nor involvement . The Boston Crusaders , in tandem with the other DCI Corps, however all stood their ground , and were not intimidated . Its not a stretch to state that the non G7 Corps likely saved DCI from collapse , and I believe , the G7 from making a potential fatal disaster even for themselves as well had they left DCI as a group of 7 as they had threatened to do . Had they left DCI , they would be down to just 6 Corps in 2023 ( no SCV ) and likely the remaining 6 would not have survived the Covid pandemic shutdown period, imo . Also , you can’t have 6 Corps competing all summer , then 3 days of the same 6 at Championships and think that would last year after year with audiences . For a multitude of reasons that G7 scheme was ill conceived and unworkable beyond a season or two … at most . Glad the central architect of this devilish , idiotic G7 plan has left DCI , and not under his own plan either .

Its seems logical to assume that at the very least, DCI will need to be satisfied that SCV is in good standing with the state of California taxing and non profit oversight Gov't authorities before SCV's quest to return in 2024 ( or any future year ) is granted by DCI. SCV at the moment however seems a long ways off from resolving their current delinquency status in the State, especially now given the reported resignation of their Treasurer there. Dan A. has one foot out the door now at DCI, and waiting until his position is filled, and probably now hoping SCV comes to their senses, and reports out that they have voted not to seek return to DCI in 2024. That would at least take this matter off the hands DCI and its BOD at the moment. Besides, even in the unlikely scenario now that SCV could even field a Corps for 2024, 'not sure SCV would want to go on first in all of them until Regionals later in the season. ( as DCI rules now would require ). SCV should just vote next rescheduled meeting to stop any further pretense for a return in 2024, and either disband, or spend the rest of 2023 and 2024 seeing if they can get their organization out of delinquency with the State of California, and their Corps up and running there again in 2025.

it was a terrific turnaround there by the Troopers too from that 2005 time period. Its not easy to do a successful turnaround. it requires intelligence, hard work, teamwork, a shared vision,, and probably just as importantly.... selflessness,, ie leaving egos and prior resentments/ slights behind for the good of any hopes for a possible successful turnaround. But I think you already know this.

I had heard the same rumor you did it seems... haha

We should know who his replacement is soon. I have heard a rumor on who they have selected, but its just a rumor, so we will just have to be patient and see its thats the one or not.

Rightly or wrongly, his is likely see how outsiders currently assess the battle for control of leadership positions at SCV.....

Good conversation, and its even better to find sources for posted info on here. My info has it that in 2005, DCI voted to suspend the Troopers from competition for 2006 season, but they coould still perform outside of DCI.. ( by the way, this episode is in no way critical of the current Troopers as I admire them and have since the inglorious G7 days ). Here is my 2 sources ( below) that states ( as I posted above ) that DCI suspended the Troopers for the 2006 competition season. Its from the Troopers and has been on this website for years without correction by the Troopers or anyone at DCI, so we should assume it is accurate. Scroll down to near the bottom, 2nd to last paragraph, and right above " show summary ".. Additionally, I have sourced below, the Caspar, Wyo newspaper from that timeframe that additionally reported that the Troopers were suspended from competitions in DCI for the 2006 season by DCI..... for failure to send tax records to DCI ( NOT to the tax authorities) for several years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troopers_Drum_and_Bugle_Corps#:~:text=In 2005%2C the DC and..... https://trib.com/news/local/group-wants-troopers-to-stop-marching/article_cc3e13c2-1505-559c-bddb-ee4d1550c277.html

We feel both your love for this Corps, as well as your pain and frustration. You are not at fault. No apologies thus is necessary from you to the SCV members. However, nice gesture from you, and so noted.👍

My year posted above was inaccurate. I will amend the year accordingly, 2muchcoffeeman. Thank you for pointing this out as I agree with you that accuracy in posting info is important. It was 2005 ( not 2010 ) that the BOD of DCI suspended the Troopers for a season ( 2006 ) with the requirement to change Mgt there before being admitted back to DCI. The reason was failure to SEND filed taxes in a timely manner.... TO DCI ( not taxing authorities ) . The Troopers complied with the Demand to change Mgt there. They changed Mgt. The Troopers also corrected the Tax filings in a satisfactory manner, and so on Oct. 3rd, 2006, the BOD at DCI voted reinstate the Troopers for the 2007 season where the Troopers to their enormous credit have complied with DCI Membership rules ever since. My central point I was making above here still stands however. DCI stepped in and voted to suspend the Troopers. That info was then made public . They were sitting in 22nd place in that 2005 season when the DCI board suspended them. ( Not that placements in DCI should ever matter in DCI decisions, imo ). By contrast, DCI found out last year that SCV was heavily in debt ( more than the Troopers were in 2005 ), and were in delinquency with the state of Calif. in filing taxes in a timely manner. In addition, DCI was made aware at the same time the public was that SCV Mgt. was allowing SCV auditions to take place for this 2023 season when they had to have known that their chances of putting a Corps for their " A " Corps was a veritable impossibility with the financial and tax situation they found themselves in. The SCV, after unethically and irresponsibly taking parents and young marchers audition fees, then abruptly announced that they had decided to " take the 2023 season off, and with hopes to return in 2024 ". What was DCI's public response to this ? Quietness. DCI did not suspend SCV. DCI also made no public announcement that SCV in order to return must clean house of those in positions of leadership that brought SCV to this status . Yes, it does appear that in DCI" all are equal, but some are more equal than others". Those that come to this observation assessment have years of examples where such conclusions can be deemed logical, rational, and yes....... accurate, imo. Now back to comings and goings of staff after this season... not much to report here except rumors due to the rule adopted by DCI, that staff announcements from 2017 onward now must not officially and publicly occur until Labor Day or after now ).

I was referring above to what DCI did after they found out the same time we all did. They took no punitive action with the Corps. For context, in 2010 DCI stepped in and told the Troopers they were suspended for a year and until such time as they removed Mgt that had not filed taxes in a timely manner. DCI took action immediately upon being notified that the Troopers Mgt had not fulfilled IRS tax filings in a timely manner. As for SCV it appears they were in far more delinquent filings,and despite that knowledge ( and in debt that no corps in DCI History was at in dollars ), SCV were still holding auditions and taking parents/ marchers audition fees. When DCI was informed of this unethical and irresponsible behavior by SCV Mgt there, as well as the IRS and State of Calif notifications of repeated failures to comply, DCI pretty much took no punitive action. It was SCV that were given the opportunity to announce that they had decided to " take the season off with hopes to return in 2024 ". SCV is currently not under a year's suspension imposed by DCI( as were the Troopers in 2010.) ( PS... I am amening the year to 2005 that the Troopers were suspended for the 2006 season by DC BOD, and reinstated for 2007 by vote of DCI BOD on Oct.3rd, 2006 )

More transparancy in DCI, but understand its a wish list mostly. We all likely recall here how SCV likely knew how impossibly dire their financial condition was and the chances of their returning to the field this past season was virtually zero. They knew this all through 2022 likely too. But they irresponsibly withheld that info to the public. With that secrecy and withhold, parents and staff marchers, and auditioneers at SCV were regrettably put in positions for hope for marching in a Corps for 2023 that SCV mgt knew at this time last year ( and earlier ) was absolutely not going to happen. DCI itself was silent on this, so as far as we know they took no punitive actions on SCV with this wholly irresponsible lack of transparancy.... and as a result, man what a mess it created to hundreds of people once auditions rolled around and SCV still kept auditions going and silent on what they surely knew for a long long time in 2022. But, it is what it is, so we learn to be patient and cautious as fans.