Jeff Ream
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Posts posted by Jeff Ream
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38 minutes ago, Chief Guns said:
BD fatigue is probably top five biggest reasons for the hatred they receive.
And it's not a BD thing, it's anyone who has figured out the championship formula to consistently stay on top.
Society in general doesn't like dynasties...........unless it's the team/corps/player you root for lol.
I remember after the 2006 season, and hearing some people groaning about the Cavies winning again and wanting to see a new winner. Now it was nowhere near BD level of hate, not even in the same realm, but some were talking.
that and from 08-13 the shows were generally unpopular
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48 minutes ago, musicteacher said:
Years ago I taught a corps that received a thunderous reception, complete with a stating O from a filled stadium. One judge's response, "This is not General Effect." Post-Cesario this doesn't happen.
exactly. the intellectual third of the triad is no longer dominating over the other 2/3's of the triad
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13 hours ago, BG984 said:
and I wish that they did...........
13 hours ago, BG984 said:and I wish that they did...........
i do believe they are more than they were say 10 years ago. a lot of the things Cesario said on that day back in 09 i think was stuff he said when he started his project with DCI a decade ago. think about this....the year that whole initiative started, yeah BD won, but with their most loved show since probably 1996! And since that philosophy shift started, there's yet to be a yawner champion. Sure a few close shows that may be controversial, but in both cases effect didn't really call the show. visual performance captions did ( thinking of 15 and 19)
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13 hours ago, BG984 said:
Not exactly, but I do feel that audience response (and it is on the current sheets as "engagement") should be considered when judging effect...........I think that if a corps "brings the house down" at the end, with multiple standing ovations during their program, and another gets "golf applause", and a politely forced standing ovation only at the end, that perhaps the second group should not win effect..............
engagement tho isn't as cut and dried as one thinks. geography can play a part. at say Crowns home show are the fans going to be more engaged for the hometown team? Sure! Should the judges solely feed off of applause? Nope. remember bringing the house down may not be universal at every stadium. Homerism is real
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8 hours ago, BG984 said:
I actually caused a bit of a stir at a judge's conference. The visual "guru" running things stated, "the judge must discern and determine what is "truly effective"". My hand went up..."yes"......"truly effective.....to WHOM.....to me as a judge, or to the thousands of paid fans in the stands". There was silence in the room, and the "guru" changed the subject within seconds.......
i asked that at a cinic Cesario was running. his reply was "the judge needs to react like a fan"
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19 hours ago, BG984 said:
I was talking semifinals, and Cadets did indeed win both brass and percussion........I never discussed visual, but they are the first to ever win brass and percussion at a DCI world championship prelims/finals show and not win....and in fact 4th as well, not even placing.....agreed about some of the visual issues (agree that black was a mistake)....but they had much demand on the fly.....the emphasis, for a long time now, is on the perceived quality of the visual product....
actually effect period. and Rondo called that out 30 years ago
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oh that drum break.
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On 3/22/2024 at 11:04 AM, lawdn said:
You weren’t in Indy in 2013 IIRC. My first finals experience. I was pretty stunned by the dislike for BD, but I guess it was manifested by silence instead of booing so that’s a win for civility? Of course, a dark, edgy, jazz-based show performed at a high level was right up my alley even if it had some clear design flaws.There were a number of shows I didn’t care for that year but I was jazzed to be there and stood and cheered after every show. To each their own. I do geek out on trying to understand and embrace the concept of each show on its own terms. I almost always get there but not always.
And both you and @Chief Guns are cool 😎, but he is a phenomenon of cool 😂
no i wasn't. the dome left me very displeased with the sound, plus we had a baby in 2012, so hopping off to finals wasn't a way to keep family tensions in check. thought about it during teething tho LOL!
however my take in 13 seeing them in Allentown was more people pulling for Crown and honestly just wanting someone new.
and i'm 90 BD cool.
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6 hours ago, Chief Guns said:
Oh my comment was speaking in general, not at anyone specific. You are one of my favorite people on this forum Jeff. All love here.
but i wasn't alone. I remember in 2010, more people than i ever remember leaving before the victory run. Sure, BD perfofmed great. But people didn't like the show.
and you're pretty cool too!
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4 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Then we have the issue of does DCIs goals match the corps goals. And how close do the individual corps goals match each other.
Some corps goals, if realistic just might be “freaking survive until next year”. (Sounds familiar to me)here's the thing, and it may ruffle some feathers....
BITD scores still mattered. think the Warren Cavies, the Royal Airs and Kilties in the 60's didn't go all out to win? or Garfield, Blessed Sac, Boston, St Kevins? Sure they did.
but the pool they recruited from was different then. As were the shows. Few in corps back then went on to be HS or college band directors. those entities and drum corps were in very different camps. But as time went on, and the two camps started getting closer together and personel crossed back and forth, the recruiting pool changed, and the number of corps shrank for all of the litany of reasons discussed/debated/argued about on here, with both fatcs, opinion, and rose colred bifocals.
and surviving until next year has long been a thing in drum corps. like since day 2. So while these are all good points to bring up in relation to this topic, it's not like these two things are only more recent developments. They've been around forever.
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13 hours ago, Mello Dude said:
So separate and not equal? Seems kind of a backwards step. Anyhow, I just hope Bloo gets a better costume/uniform designer this year.
but from those offerings, maybe some kids find their way to drum corps. Maybe not Bloo. maybe Soundsport or All Age. Maybe Open Class.
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On 3/20/2024 at 7:54 AM, Keith Hall said:
Unbeknownst to us....when DCI stopped using PBS that was the changing of show ideas for DCI corps. If you watched DCI on PBS you didn't see a 'theme" but you did hear a lot of recognizable music.
This is NOT "I remember when drum corps was drum corps" rant.
I enjoyed listening to corps playing different pieces of music in their show. In the 80's we saw corps had to have a theme and even explain their concept (still do today). Who started this idea?
Remember Blue Devils opening up with "Free" by Chicago and a concert of Mangione's "Legend of the One Eyed Sailor.' Later Mangione's "Chase The Clouds Away." Very entertaining!
Today, although the musicianship level exceeds the level in the 70's and 80's (IMO), I find most corps boring muically and visually.
I watched Crown do a "parade at Disney Springs a couple of years ago and couldn't believe the guard CAN NOT March!!! They walked and talked with each other and wavered at audience. I don't recall seeing a rifle section spinning the same routine at the same time in a section. Today I see more individual work done probably to avoid mistakes.
ok so 88 and 89....hmm themes. Phantom of the Opera, New World Symphony...Les Miz. oh 90...Tommy, Bernstein, Carnival of Animals, Carmen...91...Miss Saigon, Cavalier Anthems, City of Angels...92...Songs for Planet Earth, more City of Angels...
oh hell, 84...West Side Story.
those were all years DCi showed part of finals live.
Themes had been building for a while. i think it was 1971....when drum corps died right?
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49 minutes ago, BigW said:
You can be my bodyguard! I'm really not that bad! 😋
i just ignore people. i think the last time a fan got to me and i said something was some idiot...in a stadium not serving beer, aka JBC heckled teal Sound the year they had the rock band in the pit. Now i wasn't alone, but i knew who he was with ( a local legend in brass world) and stood up and the his friend to shut him up now. and you know the look i give with idiots, and they got it.
he was quiet.
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3 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
A guy next to me drank seven beers in Foxboro in 05. It was none of my business. I did do the math on how much it cost to drink seven crappy beers In that place. He’d ran up quite a tab.
you wwere in Scranton. if i was an issue with 2, that guy should have looked up 4 rows by the railing at the walkway, especially by the tunnel that led to the Stadium Club.
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3 hours ago, Chief Guns said:
Amen Brother!
Say it louder for the people in the back!
they performed great. never said they didn't. but i hated the show.
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5 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
I didn’t laugh but it was my least favorite BD show. I’ve liked them every year since 2014.
me too. i was a huge BD fan
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10 hours ago, BigW said:
I wish I could ignore idiocy. Ever since that one show BITD at Hershey where some cluck physically threatened me when I Blooed the Blue Coats and I stopped going to shows for several years, I really am half afraid of what clucks I'll run into anymore. If my Mom and sister weren't there, I'd have popped that jerk. There have been few times where I've felt comfortable to really appreciate and react as a spectator since then. Usually when there's space between me and anyone else like Clifton when I bought the VIP ticket and like three other people did... or when I'm surrounded by friends/bodyguards. I'll gladly go back to Dover. If I miss the late season all age-World class contest, really, I can work on my Historical gaming miniatures, take myself to a top-class restaurant, or make a road trip to a couple of museums up North to watch live WW2 tank demos. I figure it'll eventually pop up online and I can enjoy it in the safety of my room.
maybe i'm lucky.....i've never had interactions like that. well ok once.....DCA in Scranton. i walked to my seat for finals with 2 beers. guy next to me started to complain loudly about "an obnoxious drunk next to me.". then as 2 of my group showed up, i handed them their beers and shot the guy a look. Needless to say i heard not a peep, even when i eventually had a cold one myself.
but seriously if you let stuff like that affect your ability to enjoy it, you need to find ways to block it out. i'm not trying to be Johnny sunshine....anyone that knows me knows i see way too much stupidity in the world around us. I just find ways to block it out. Plus now when i am at shows, i have an adorable almost 12 year old to explain stuff to!
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1 hour ago, Triple Forte said:
I’ve been going to Allentown since 1997 and I can say for sure Allentown recognizes and applaud’s excellence. It is probably the most drum corps savvy and seasoned crowd the Corps face all summer.
Unlike Bando Crowds, there are no give-me’s in Allentown. 😊J. Birney Crum....she don't lie
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2 hours ago, DWW11 said:
Interesting tho-no matter how much the crowds in Allentown tried to downplay or appear blase about BD, no one ever left their seats when they took the field.
you walk that hill for a bathroom break? you'd never make it back for whoever was next!
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5 hours ago, Terri Schehr said:
What year was Dada?
2012 or 13. i wasn't in Indy for that. 2010 was through a glass darkly or whatever it was called. I actually remember people laughing at Dada in Allentown
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6 hours ago, flugelswerebugels said:
In '79 and '80 the crowds at Allentown would chant "EAST EAST EAST!' It came off to me as a mix of support for Cadets/27 and hoping that BD wouldn't win again (which we didn't always do there at that time)
the most ABBD crowd i've ever been a part of was in Indy in 2010. Literally people getting up and walking out when they performed.
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On 3/19/2024 at 3:02 PM, BigW said:
The "home town homerism" was so bad it left me demoralized after the last DCA show I went to. I plan on trying to go to the season end show because Crown et al will be present. I need to snag tickets when available. Hope I'm not too late. I had a Much better time at Dover where the audience:
-stayed for everyone
-appreciated everyone
-and everything was complete- maybe not well polished in some cases, but enjoyable and watchable.
Off topic, I really, really liked Spartans. Well, maybe it is on topic- Their music wasn't normal fare, but it was wonderfully arranged, performed, and all made sense phrasally and went from one idea to another without feeling like one had ADHD.
hometown homerism has always been there. and always will be. i personally don't pay attention to it and focus on the field.
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On 3/19/2024 at 3:49 PM, Keith Hall said:
The Corps staff go to DCI Meetings and propose judging changes. The corps vote on those changes. WHY visual is more important than Music? I don't know
here's the thing, and i am sure this will rankle several:
once we got away from the drills of 1960, visual has evolved and become more important in the total package. by the time Cadets zagged, scoring had to zig. fewer of the old school compulsory drill moves ( color pres, concert, exit line etc) were gone. the visual got more creative. Now in some cases, especially with props etc has it gone too far? IMO in some cases yes. but to be anything less than 50% of the score in where things are now isn't realistic.
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7 hours ago, Chief Guns said:
Not to mention how many times we had to guard and protect that "House and Home" in 2011.
move that bus!
A history of DCI judging and scoring, and the movement away from music emphasis
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
it happens, but it's not the driving force anymore.