gbass598
-
Posts
1,429 -
Joined
-
Days Won
1
Posts posted by gbass598
-
-
44 minutes ago, wolfgang said:
Given the reason for SCV going inactive, the quoted statement is, shall we say, ironic?
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't Open Class corps not get paid appearance fees for shows while World Class corps do?
-
11 hours ago, MarimbaManiac said:
All members are required to work, or have a representative work a certain number of bingos, including SCVC members. So if they are too young, they have family work, or the find a sponsor to work for them. Yes there are a handful of paid workers, but FAR more volunteers.
...something that becomes more difficult to sustain with less local involvement.
So with the A corps being filled with members from other states for a long time, how do those members fill the requirement? it is one thing when they used to require you to move to CA in January but that stopped in 1999 if I recall. I aged out in '98 and that requirement interfering with college was the biggest reason I never auditioned.
-
2 hours ago, wolfgang said:
FYI, here is a link for the zoom meeting last September when they announced Vanguard Cadets weren't coming out. I believe the first 30 minutes is specific to the Vanguard Cadets situation.
Vanguard September Zoom Meeting
Let me throw this out there because I see no evidence this has been considered:
What if months ago, they decided to pause SCV for 2023, and keep Vanguard Cadets, but do the BDB model (ie- no touring outside California, only kids within 200 miles of Santa Clara). There would still be expenses, but much less than a World Class nationwide tour and Open Class several week midwest tour. Also, as much as possible, local staff (no air fare).
With BD, SCV, and Mandarins in the area, I cannot believe there aren't designers and staff members in the area that could have worked with SCVC to operate albeit on a much more limited, in-state basis for a time while big brother is on hiatus.
If finances would not allow even that limited, local Open class option, may I add an idea for the rebirth:
START with Vanguard Cadets, get that corps up and running (and build a more local presence), then add SCV once the base is built up. He wants local help, but if the Cadet corps never comes back, how are all those Texas kids in SCV going to help with bingo (or whatever additional local revenue sources they utilize).
Just a thought. Restart locally (Open), then add nationally (World) only after the local base is re-established.
How many SCVC members helped with Bingo anyway? It is a form of gambling. I'm not sure if this is federal law or dictated state by state but in Ohio you have to be 18 to even be onsite during the games. As an Open Class corps, how much of their membership were local high school students? I'm pretty sure the people who run bingo for groups like SCV, BD and Mandarins are paid employees of the organization. It has pretty much dried up in most of the country but still has a bit of success in CA as I understand it even though revenues have dropped from Covid.
Additionally, I'm not sure pausing the A corps and doing a CA only open class tour would have changed anything. As mentioned in the video, they felt like they could compete with both groups but costs exploded past their estimations during June, July and August when it was too late to pause either group. The A corps is the money maker as a world class group. As everyone would love for every world class group to have their local roots. All of the corps are essentially national groups with a home base as a place just to lay their hat as their home. I don't think having a local base is really as important as people would like it to be or was 20+ years ago.
-
1
-
-
38 minutes ago, Dansize said:
New update from SCV with a review of how they got here with respect to budgets and the decision path they took to get here:
A very thorough and business-like presentation. It seems genuine and transparent. I'm very interested to see what ideas and options arise when it comes to new revenue streams.
-
3
-
-
On 12/20/2022 at 11:07 PM, hank13579 said:
Glassmen
Glassmen last made finals in 2010. 13th in 2011, 14th in 2012, then gone like dust in the wind.
-
1 hour ago, keystone3ply said:
Most of the groups were given & played through the first 1-2 minutes of their horn book. The percussion are still working on fundamentals. (Variations of "8 on a hand" anyone?) 😂
Considering there is an entirely new staff with a whole new technique and the fact winter is when you should be focusing on fundamentals I'm not surprised. All of the players are talented from wherever they come from. They just need to learn to play the same way.
-
2
-
-
Living 3 hours away from Indy I did not go every year. I haven't been to a live show since 2019 and my last time attending finals was 2018. I decided to stop going to finals because of the cost. I paid a ton of money for tickets I bought as soon as the public on sale started for way too much money to end up sitting on the 5 yard line.
I use vacation time from my job to teach band camp so I'm not using more time away to go watch quarterfinals or semifinals when I can watch them from home cheaper. This past year I didn't even watch finals online because I took a trip to Wisconsin to see my favorite band play 3 nights that same weekend.
-
1
-
-
13 minutes ago, C.Holland said:
you're forcing air, to try to get sound 500-1000 feet away. trying to either fill the space, or give it lazer like direction so you can give that impact we're used to in drum corps. it puts stress on your face, jaw, chops, lungs...etc. Because you need to support your chops to deal with that much volume of air.
its much less stress on the body to play within a section where everyone is seated 2' from you, and the audience is 15' away.Fair enough points. In a world with 75-80 member brass sections it sounds like more of a proponent of using amplification for brass as well instead of criticizing the costs of amplifying front ensemble. However, is the stress on face, jaw, lungs, etc. just conditioning or is it detrimental to the sound and the instrument itself like overplaying on a keyboard?
-
1
-
-
2 hours ago, jjeffeory said:
There's a different expectation in concert band versus marching, obviously....
Since I'm not a brass player. Is it actually a different playing technique or just a different "style" in arranging that causes the player to approach the music differently? I know concert percussion and front ensemble should ideally be approached with the same technique but they arranging style of how the parts are written are significantly different.
-
7 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
Ask those kids how their wrists are now
And to bring this back to SCV. The Cavaliers in the 90's always looked very tense. A lot of percussion sections did back in that day. I have to give greater credit to Jim Casella and Murray Gusseck for what they did with the SCV percussion section. Their looser approach of bringing mostly drum set associated techniques for relaxation like the Moeller stroke to modern marching percussion has changed the game for the better. Combining that with the ability to expand front ensemble contribution and musicality with the amplification revolutionized the activity for the better.
Just one of the many ways SCV has been the trend setter in percussion through every era and I hope it is able to continue.
-
22 minutes ago, jjeffeory said:
Cavies had killer pit moments BEFORE, and they were AGAINST amplification in the beginning because they said they used "outdoor" technique, so....
What is "outdoor" technique other than playing really hard into the bars which is bad for the instrument and bad for the hands?
Is there indoor and outdoor technique for a trumpet or other brass instruments or is it just blowing through the horn and playing dynamics regardless if you are in a marching band or wind ensemble?
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
they are not just doubling parts. if you have 5 marimbas playing 5 lines....not just doubling. doubling is what happened when you needed the 5 marimbas to be heard when unmiced. Did you watch that SCV Front ensemble video put up earlier in the thread? So much more than doubling.
but i realize people with actual percussion backgrounds explaining things to you are ignored so you can show your biases and preferences and misconceptions
I mean... with all the other problems and costs in the activity the size of a few marimbas and the need for it is an interesting hill to die on. It's certainly not the difference maker as some insist.
-
43 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:
That's really just...not accurate.
Superficial flourishes aside, mallet technique in drum corps has homogenized to become just a showier version of orchestral technique, which is pretty true across the board. Quality of sound is paramount, and an overall lighter touch than legacy pit technique. Any differences you're seeing is just how the corps would visually like to present themselves, but the approach to the instrument is the same.
(Source: Former member, front ensemble caption head, current professional musician with degrees in percussion performance and a PhD in music with an emphasis in music technology performance practice)
Why do you have 5 marimbas (4-5 is the standard, 6 is an anomaly)? Same reason we have 9 snares, or 40 colorguard, because multiple people doing things in unison is more impressive and part of the pageantry. Also like others said, those 4-5 marimbas are doing different things (different marimba parts/harmonizations, hand cymbals, gong/bass, hand percussion, etc.).
Also (without knowing everyone's individual situation), I can confidently state that ALL top 12 corps, most semi finalist corps, and even the top open class corps, have similar contracts with the drum companies. They play on instruments for a season, and then resell them for basically what they paid for them. It's basically a push financially.
As for space, an entire pit, all horns, battery, drums, and colorguard equipment (without props) can usually fit on a single semi. It's the props, food service, and stadium tour style staff busses that carry only a handful of people, that are contributing to the additional fleet footprint.
(
And here is a good example of all of that.
-
2
-
-
6 hours ago, 84BDsop said:
Kinda glad BD's name wasn't in the article, since the accusations had nothing to DO with BD.
Of course, the question from our side is...was BD aware of these accusations while he worked for the org, or did they bounce him upon finding out?
If they legit didn't know until he was let go, no blame should attach to BD.
Well, they "say" he left on his own in October but the arrest was made in December. I'm no law enforcement professional but I feel like police don't like to work slowly in these situations when said offender is in daily contact with minors. It could go any way but maybe he resigned from BD in October because he thought something was coming up from his past but kept it secret from his current employer. In any event, resigning from BD in October is sort of odd timing with planning for a new season ramping up by that time.
-
1
-
1
-
-
8 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
I think dci has a bigger fire to put out right now
If the people handling copyrights and audio mixing are the same people who handle PR and publicity for their member groups, we've got much bigger problems.
I don't think DCI has a fire to put out. The heads of the member corps who do all the decision making have a collective fire to put out among themselves. I'm not sure what else DCI can do right now since SCV chose to remove themselves from competition this year other than review their finances next year before allowing them to return like they did with the Troopers and other groups.
-
2 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
But bus deals are different and housing isn’t free now. Bus deals cost the same no matter how far you go or don’t go. But chartering is still more cost effective than owning and maintaining
We also owned and maintained in that era. Yes, things are different now. Costs have increased, spending has increased independent of those costs without increases in relative revenue. Many corps have folded and very few have learned to adapt which is why we've gone from about 90 corps in the late 90's to the 35 that competed at Finals this year.
-
4 minutes ago, ContraFart said:
What I am trying to say is that the 3500 or so WC spots are going to be filled at the current dues level. Could there be more demand than spots if due were significantly lowered? Maybe, and I do think we need lower dues, its just that the market is currently sustaining the current dues levels.
Here is an honest question. How many people audition with actually knowing the full cost of membership? I'm not sure any corps is transparent on their fees in public. I've not seen anything details posted on anyone's website. Even college is pretty transparent on tuition fees.
Maybe I'm wrong but drum corps seems to be "Pay your $150 audition fee and then we'll tell you what everything actually costs."
-
43 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:
your $750 member fees also took into account food wasn't as expensive as it is now, and lets be honest, most corps didn't east as well as they do now. you also got every housing site for free or pennies.
Maybe. I also think we ate pretty well in 1998. We also weren't traveling 5-6 hours by bus every night. The regional touring model made for shorter bus trips and less miles traveled. The activity itself hasn't actually done much of anything to adapt and cut or minimize costs over the years. Instead the big just keep pushing to get bigger.
-
3
-
-
4 minutes ago, MikeN said:
I mentioned this earlier, but the member changes have neatly coincided with an expansion of charter bus sizes. Most charter companies use 55-seat coaches now, thus the increase to 165. Going back to 128 just creates empty seats on buses and deprives you of the associated revenue. If you're going to force cuts, it would have to be back to 110. That said, 55 members x $5,000 tuition = $275k, which is way more income lost than the savings of that third bus.
My wife was CFO of a DCI corps - her short answer input: gotta cut expenses, sure, but not by cutting revenue. Otherwise you're trying to fill a larger hole with a smaller shovel.
Mike
I think the problem is the $5k tuition that has skyrocketed in recent years. I have no problem with member sizes increasing or the uses of the instrumentation. The problem is not having enough revenue sources to cover those costs without putting the bearing of that on the members themselves. 1 dollar in 1998 = 1.83 in 2022. My member fees were $750. in 2022 that means member fees would be a bit less than $1400. Instead member fees are 600% higher than they were 25 years ago. As corps bring in more members, they also expect them to provide more of the funding out of their own pocket instead of creating additional revenue streams.
But yes, as you pointed out, that 275k in revenue makes up for having a couple of marimbas on the field.
-
2
-
-
12 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
They don't pay to transport themselves.
If we are serious about bringing down costs, we need to look at every part of the activity.
I don't get why front ensemble continues to be singled out regarding transportation costs.
You want to save transportations costs, cut members in all sections. It was 128 when I marched. What is it now? 160? Less equipment, less busses, less food. less staff.
The big boys who run the activity kept pushing for more. 128, 135, 150, 154, 160. Where does it end?
-
2
-
-
22 minutes ago, frachel said:
I can't find many people in my circle that feel the front ensemble "blend" has ever been good.. year-after-year of "thunderous goo" posts and complaints about ear-piercing pits.
Speakers are geared towards the pressbox. If you sit low in front of them it can be overpowering. Additionally, live streaming tends to put mics on the speakers for the webcast and that falls to the person doing the mixing for the webstream. This is a whole other topic but there are professionally released popular music releases that are mixed terribly as well. Its all in the ear of the beholder.
-
1 hour ago, Old Corps Guy said:
I don't want to get into an argument that has been covered multiple times. As a professional musician, director and arranger, I can also appreciate playing different parts. However, three people playing the same part and amplifying it is different than playing multiple brass or snares on the field that isn't amplified.
I have sung the national anthem at multiple NFL & MLB stadiums over the years with a single microphone and everyone heard me just fine in every one of them.
The issue here is $. The square/cubic footage that each marimba takes in a truck is more than any other instrument on the field. This creates the need for more vehicles, drivers, etc. The same can be said for the increased use of props. Expenses are what has removed SCV from the field this year and has done so to many other corps over the past couple decades.
We are getting close to DCA numbers of competing corps. They don't have a real need for prelims anymore other than order of performance at finals. Is this where we want the activity to go?
I don't want to argue about it either but I'll point out that singing through a giant stadium PA system with giant speakers placed around the stadium seating area and amplifying a front ensemble through 4 (maybe 6 depending on the setup) portable speakers and subwoofers on wheels to blend with a 75 member un-amplified hornline are not even remotely the same.
-
1
-
1
-
-
33 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:
Not completely how this was sold when amplification was introduced. "Proper" technique is an interesting term not fully understood by most that use it. Technique will vary depending on your surroundings or needs. This is for every instrument FWIW.
Not every corps (not even close) is able to do this. This falsehood has been used so much anymore that people think every corps get these deals..they do not.
24 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said:I hope you realize that one microphone and amps can amplify a single singer in a 75,000-seat stadium.
🎤
Amplification allows the players to player their equipment by now pounding the crap out of the bars like they used to have to do. I don't care how it was sold to you but as someone who is a percussionist and teaches an ensemble with a sound system I'm trying to understand real world use. They can play with more appropriate technique. It allows for much more musical expression and dynamics to be used.
Additionally, it's not as simple as "let's use 1 marimba and just turn the volume up." Multiple players play different parts for depth of composition similar to why groups have 3 trumpet parts. Additionally, the last time I checked no corps, especially the Bay Area's own SCV is out there recreating the Grateful Dead's "Wall of Sound" to project their electronics and acoustic instruments. A drum corp's sound system and what a rock band uses in a stadium is comparing apples and oranges. It's not even the same ballpark.
Maybe every corps doesn't get those deals, mostly Open Class don't but I'm pretty sure most World Class do, especially the top 12 and most certainly SCV does with Dynasty.
-
5
-
1
-
-
12 minutes ago, Mello Dude said:
Because the whole point of amplification is that we wouldn't need 6 marimbas to be heard. 6 Marimbas are also a hell of a lot more expensive to transport and buy. FWIW numbers balance acoustic instruments on the field.
Amplification allows the players to play with proper technique. They are big and they are expensive but corps get them cheap (or possibly even free for the season), return them to the manufacturer, and then the manufacturer resells them. 6 marimbas balanced with 75-80 member horn lines is balancing the acoustic instruments on the field.
-
2
-
Santa Clara Vanguard 2023 Announcement Thread
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I don't claim to know anything but we don't know the financial situations of other corps. BD does have additional revenue streams to help but they have also made the decision to not take the B corps outside of CA this year. Mandarins also only have 1 corps and did not field 2 on a full national tour last year like SCV did.