Weaklefthand4ever
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Posts posted by Weaklefthand4ever
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3 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said:
Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like plenty in this thread could feed a long and fascinating conversation about learning styles and Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences as they all apply to this problem and other pedagogies in drum corps. Great link here that totally applies, IMHO: https://www.niu.edu/citl/resources/guides/instructional-guide/gardners-theory-of-multiple-intelligences.shtml
I was introduced to Gardner's theory at a time when it was already being dissected as being too simplistic... or, in other words, there are way more than 12 intelligences. Thus, what folks are saying here about customized learning methods and platforms are key.
This all feeds the notion that a static, 1.5 hr SS training for mandatory reporting is a good start but simply not enough if we want to minimize violations and increase the safety of young marching members in drum corps.
I teach a 3 week class twice a year (this year it's three times) on adult learning theory and delivery design for adult learners. All of our corporate trainers have to go through it. I want to say there are about 15 of us on the North Amerca staff who are certified to teach it and we all have to be master certified through ASD. It's not hard...just expensive. Then the trainers go through a week of training on effective coaching and feedback. At that point they're certified to train for a program (client) which is it's own certification.
Adults learn differently. It's a fact that effectiveness and retention are tied to delivery method. It's the single reason why I HATE PowerPoint (the Walmart of Instructional Design.) Well intentioned people all over the world use it as a delivery method for important learning when it's not built for that. Last year I actually had to do an e-learning on how to actually build presentations in PowerPoint that met the accessibility standards for design when someone actually had a seizure which was possibly brought on by flashing animations in a presentation.
A LOT of thought goes into effective presentation. It took me 20+ years to get to where I feel 110% confident in writing curriculum. Even now I question design choices in my own writing.
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10 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
This kind of potential for training systems is what has me so curious about SoA's in-house system and results.
My training, which I essentially did as elective professional development was 21 hrs, prepackaged and, while I'm sure needs updating, was plenty to put me ahead of many of my peers throughout youth arts education nonprofits. Only taken once. Link here: https://www.d2l.org/education/stewards-of-children/. So it's required that I adjust mandated reporting to young adult and all-age settings, which is tricky. This must also be incredibly tricky in the drum corps setting. But I firmly believe that the same principles and ethics apply.
I haven't encountered an employment environment in the arts or nonprofits (and now hospitality) that even broaches any related subject matter. Again, everything I did was elective, and have even been told "this isn't a problem we think needs addressing" by boards of directors. Employees (and teachers) have just been left to discover pitfalls and shortcomings in their own knowledge/experience on their own. This was the norm before I switched careers. No training at all in my new hospitality corporate gig either. Fortunately, the ethics involved in my career are soundly reinforced in our curricula and state licensing so I don't need to rely on the corporate gig, but still, kinda scary for others.
Also, for those of you involved in military protocols on the matter, I'm sure Tailhook continues to haunt you.
From what I have seen and heard, I think SoA invested the time, money and care to do anything necessary. And that was probably a big ask. But the lessons learned there would probably give some valuable insight and probably already has on many levels.
The design software out there now is so good that it can build almost anything you want. It just takes a good designer, a good plan, and good lawyers to check the content. I think often, designers (or even the client asking for training) fail to start with the end goal in mind. They have content and are just asking for it to be organized and put into a usable format. But that's not education. That's an information dump. You have to begin with what you want the end goal to be, is it attainable and how will it be measured.
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10 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:
i'm 95% remote now and i just took the same online training with videos for the 3rd time this year. no noticable updates either
Sounds like they may have a reporting issue Jeff. But I could be wrong.
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1 hour ago, Jurassic Lancer said:
They are all angry cellists. Why are they angry? There were no cello solos this year.
"Why are there cowbells mounted to all the tenors?"
"We just thought they would look cool."
"So.....no cowbell quintet for the tenors???"
"Nope"
"But....cowbells......COWBELLS...."
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1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
Thinking about my own DoD experiences gets me thinking. Is it a good idea to ‘test’ the reporting system by pulling a member aside, give them information to pass on that something happened, & see if the system works properly? We would do this for things like ‘suspicious packages’, but for SA or member abuse I can see it doing both good and bad. But perhaps the idea does merit discussion. It would have to be overseen by SafeSport (or whomever the overseer is), not a couple of rogue instructors or members. Good idea or not?
Typically I would say yes as part of the UAT. We do that with corporate compliance especially for overseas work. If you don't pressure test the system then you're really only doing half the work. That being said, I was never part of that specific piece of the puzzle. We would sometimes be asked to make adjustments after UAT but rarely did we get a reason as to why the adjustment was necessary.
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2 hours ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Or as the government puts it, watching the same bleeping thing year after year is a “refresher”. 🤮 Or as the workers would put it “oh #### not this again”. Amazing how the eyes and ears can be tuned in to the video but the mind is somewhere else. 😵💫
The worst part Jim, is that I still have to TAKE the exact curriculum that I write same as everybody else. So after all the UAT before rollout, I figure I've probably seen and edited that content 15 to 20 times lol.
We do try to keep up with adult learning principles though. This year we took the "big enchilada" 4 hour corporate governance training and built the majority of it around gamification. The results were FAR better with first time scores in the 90's. Previous years, the first time testing was around 82%.
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33 minutes ago, rmurrey74 said:
I’m sure it’s not perfect. It seems comprehensive to me but I’m not an expert. It reviews signs to look for, mandatory reporting, multiple scenarios with questions/quizzes throughout. To me, I had to pay attention throughout. It’s a 3rd party and yes, it’s enforced. It’s also a WGI requirement and probably for other circuits as well.
I also had in person training/policy review early in spring training, reminders throughout the season, reiterated through member and staff contracts and DCI did a full town-hall event for all drum corps on the topic last year.
I’m sure it could be much more, but It’s far and beyond anything I’ve ever had at any of my non-band/drum corps related jobs that I’ve held during my career. I work for a Fortune 500 and it’s a 15-20 minute training video once a year for Managers/Directors.
Thank you for contributing to the conversation @rmurrey74. It's always good to have voices in conversation that are open enough for some constructive discourse to take place.
I would be interested in hearing how the SS model does their certification of facilitators for in person learning (ILT - Instructor Led Training) as well as for participants and how the participation and completion for enrollees is tracked.
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I'm not implying that Safesport is not a good program or that it's vital. The questions would still be same of any program.
1. How comprehensive is it
2. Is there testing to ensure understanding and knowledge transfer
3. Is it tracked for compliance by a 3rd party and enforced
Again, it could be an excellent program. In my world we do 2 hours alone on sexual harassment prevention at the entry level for employees. Managers have FAR more hours of training as they are responsible for any employee that comes to them (plus about 12 hours of compliance work twice a year.)
It could be an apples and oranges comparison. I am simply posing questions.
Just as an aside, a LOT of study has been taken place on adult learning theory over the years as you can imagine. Video presentation comes in towards the bottom of the list when designing curriculum (still above lecture alone.) Adults tend to have limited recall of what they have seen and heard without additional learning methods to reinforce the skill transfer.
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I wanted to reach out to the broader audience and experience of the general population here for this question. I am going to make a broad assumption that all of the corps in DCI do NOT use the same curriculum for mandatory member safety and reporting training. That being said, this is transparently assumed from my experience with one corps and that was quite a long time ago.
My question is simple. Why is this the case? A single curriculum, professionally built, edited yearly and uploaded to an LMS with robust reporting is relatively inexpensive if the cost is spread across all member corps. The type of curriculum that I have built and managed, allows for the same message to be presented, consistently and the reporting is fantastic. I just rolled out a training to over 50k employees in the US. I can track completion in reports that take less than 10 minutes to run. If I need to flex to instructor led instead of e-learning, I offer that option to any vendors who we outsource to.
It just seems that if I am correct, leaving writing and delivering something of this level of importance up to individual corps, is not the best way. Who is reviewing their curriculum, testing the participants for knowledge and ensuring that the message is consistent and of equal importance, legally compliant?
I've been doing this now for 23 years. I have started to reach out to few corps to literally review their materials and make recommendations for free. I doubt very much that I will get any traction, but the offer is there because these actions are VITAL to the members and staff.
But again, I go back to why is it this way?
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7 hours ago, keystone3ply said:
In education, we've always said "the incompetent administrators are usually promoted to the Central Office". ✅
In the corporate call center world, we always say "The higher they go, the less they know."
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2 hours ago, Orwellian Wiress said:
Yet another instance of football players ruining marching band for everyone
Ehhhhh. I can see where you're coming from there, but I think there are some tradeoffs that you can go either way with.
Having marched on both, my biggest fear on artificial turf, was always a twist turning into a tear. Yes it's more durable, more even on the feet and you can roll massive props on it. And rolling an equipment cart on a bad grass surface is painful. That's why I always hated it for the cats in FE.
That being said, unless you've tripped on a sprinkler head on grass (especially wearing 22lbs of tubs,) you probably haven't had that slow motion moment locked into your brain pan all season. I'm sure the brass and guard also share this pain. Contra + ground + face = NOPE!
Some would also probably argue that as props go bigger and higher, there's more concern on member safety, cost, bigger props equalling GE etc. And they have point. Maybe the next reinvention of marching arts is less props and even more creative drill design. And please don't think I hate props. I hate pointless props that do nothing to add to the presentation, but that's an opinion shared by many.
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1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
Three is the number of the counting; and the number of the counting shall be three.
I knew someone would do it but I didn't want to be the first one lol
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58 minutes ago, Jurassic Lancer said:
Thank God it’s Thursday!
That's how chaotic my work life is with 56 trainers reporting to me lol. I often forget what day it is. Outlook calander and One Note save my ### on the daily.
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1 hour ago, IllianaLancerContra said:
We could start an over/under of how many SCV threads are closed before the 2024 season starts.
If that number is above the corps placement in 2024, you get a super cool prize? I'm joking of course, but Wednesday is my "Dealing with dullards on conference calls all day" time and I'm grumpy.
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2 hours ago, Sutasaurus said:
I think fleshing out the show design was the issue for BS this year. Just too many ideas fighting for center stage. Musically, I thought they were pretty cohesive. Not sure how Mr. Markworth will fix theme cohesiveness
Agreed. I think they may have had to adjust for talent levels and experience a bit the same way SOA seems to have done. Maybe someone should plug it into an AI and if can explain how you design a show...because I certainly could not.
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4 hours ago, musicteacher said:
Ah, but if George was around, he would have adapted in his own way.
Exactly. Honestly because of the way it's discussed that wrote drill, a prop would have simply become a piece of the shape of the set or whatever. When I think of George based on what I have seen and read from people who worked with him, he seems part artist and part architect. The artist paints the picture and the architect molds his or her design to have the picture wrap around the framework.
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2 hours ago, Boss Anova said:
I sure hope we are not about to argue about 2024 placement predictions on here . It’s one of the reasons some fans have left DCP and never to return . Too much unnecessary initiated criticisms of posters for simply providing their opinions , placement predictions , or assessments and observations on things posted on here . Everybody please chill on this 2024 placement predictions thread . Jeesh .
Agreed 101%. I know people are fanatical about their corps for various reasons and I know sometimes things get stated on this forum that seem more to do with emotion than fact or reason. But it's opinions about placement.
Should an opinion rely on measurable data? Sure. That's what lends some form of validity to it. But the way to have meaningful discourse with someone doesn't typically include attacks. I had to call this out in a directors meeting not long ago at work and called out a Sr. Director for attacking a vertical of the business based on literally no data. I didn't attack back. I simply asked clarifying questions until eventually they realized that they needed to curb their attack dog mentality.
My point is this. If this were a fact thread, then fine. Tell someone to put up their facts and dispute the finer points. But in a thread that literally used the word GUESSES in the title.......
If someone disagrees with you, so the hell what? Have some disourse, make it genuine, honest and open to change and let's all get past our egos and talk drum corps.
P.S. I have PR in 5th or 6th. Call it a gut instinct. It's my opinion. Now fight me (j/k)
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26 minutes ago, scheherazadesghost said:
The nonprofit model is not designed (and are rarely ever able) to pivot quickly. That's why transparency is supposed to be built in, so when quick pivots are absolutely necessary, they can accomplish them with minimal damage.
Point very well stated. The corporate model wouldn't work in a plug and play type of format for sure. I think pieces of it could, but some of the wheels spokes would definitely have to be reinvented. I would, however wonder if it's the model that wouldn't work or it's a will vs skill type of scenario at some level.
As we traverse the many major reported incidents across several corps (SCV is not the first and unfortunately will most likely not be the last,) the pattern of corps seems to be the "We do things the way that we do them because it's always how we've done them." Change only occurs at two levels:
1. Willingness to change in order to keep moving forward with minimal risk of future issues
2. Force by circumstance.
I don't know what the right answer is. And I'm smart enough to realize that there may not be an easy model/answer. But if corps aren't striving for transparency until they get punched in the jaw, that's a recipe for disaster.
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33 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said:
I really don't know what you're talking about when you say "other agendas." Universally, people want the organization to heal and get back to the field. There is no one wishing for the corps to fail, as far as I can tell. However they DO want this experience to come with some accountability and transparency for an organization that has avoided it for decades.
Honestly, have you seen or heard anything in the last year that has shown that the organization is taking transparency and accountability seriously? They included nice words about honesty and transparency in their "we're back" announcement, but have you seen any ACTION that shows they are actually trying to make that happen?Frankly, I think that the people who really have alternative agendas, are those that are ignoring the many red flags shown over the last year and are ready to just accept the corps coming back under any means necessary. This was and is a huge blow to the orgs credibility, and I don't understand how people can just default to blind trust after that.
And it's a double edged sword really. No corps wants to have to constantly have every issue aired in public. It hampers your ability to pivot quickly. That being said, by the time that something comes to light in the DCI world, it's already typically a potentially corps ending issue. There has to be a middle ground somewhere.
I simply don't understand the DCI model I guess. It's an organization that has one, tentative foot in oversight, but only as a reaction to large issues. The model worked for as long as it has because most things simply never came to the light of day it seems. With social media, that landscape has changed and so to should the model in some way.
Just my opinion
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28 minutes ago, MikeN said:
I'm the second longest-tenured member remaining on DCP (behind George D, the founder). And DCP is now so old it's in it's age-out year. 😞
MIke
Time to leave the shoes on the field lol
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36 minutes ago, MikeN said:
I alluded to this earlier, but we couldn't do Sysco as we didn't have a trailer large enough to store the size of order they would need to deliver, and we weren't always close enough to make it feasible. Very few of the OC corps I think are built for it. That's definitely something else to consider about volume purchasing. A few years ago DCI tried to bring everyone into bulk perishables, and that's how practically the entire activity ended up drinking Sqwincher for a summer.
Mike
I would have to check with my mom as she worked with dad for the last 10 years of his career (he was working himself literally to death) but I want to say with Aramark at least, there was a different division they set up for things like NFL camps, etc that didn't have the same requirements. I'll see what she remembers.
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4 minutes ago, JimF-LowBari said:
Wore one in college, busbys suck.
And if they fall off the stands into a puddle they hold a lot of water upside down (saw it one game 😱)
Yessssss....it's 104 degrees outside. What shall we make the mm's wear? Yes....wool uniforms and fur hats....good...gooooood.
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1 hour ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:
Corps have been using these companies for decades.
That's good to know. It's not something I really think much about these days or really for the last 30+ years. Always hire experts (and those companies do what they do, very well in general.)
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54 minutes ago, LabMaster said:
Can Sysco deliver food for a number of corps at a regional? Corporations may find it appealing to assist non-profit orgs, that are community based, by sponsoring programs for touring needs. Not necessarily giving things for free, but at a significant discount or tiered assistance based on need. Open Class corps might get more help than the top WC corps.
So wayyyyy back when, my late father told me about being approached by Suncoast Sound about how to properly set up food trucks and replenish on the road. He worked for Aramark (ARA at the time) and alas, I can't find out more now (miss ya' papa.) I would be pretty confident that major food service companies like Five Star, Aramark and Sysco could make the food part of tour pretty darn easy. You just have to have someone explain the unique needs of a touring corps rather than the typical stationary college campus or elite private high school.
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Member Safety Training and Mandatory Reporting Question
in DCI World Class Corps Discussions
Posted
I just want to take a moment to say that your continued input on this conversation is greatly appreciated. It's great to have someone who can speak to the here and now from an MM perspective and show the openness in the dialog.
That really goes for everyone in this thread but I wanted to call it and say thank you.