Tupelo judging disparity

[Mike Ferlazzo]

I just checked out the recap from the Tupelo, Miss. show last night and saw that the Bluecoats beat the Devils in both brass (17.3 to 16.9) and percussion (17.8 to 17.6), but lost the music caption because the ensemble judge had them down by almost a point (17.7 to 16.9). It doesn't seem to make sense that the 'Coats were rated by two judges as having the best brass and percussion sections -- which no doubt took into consideration the musical accuracy and projection within the ensemble -- and yet were seen to be woefully behind the Devils in musical ensemble. It shows, once again, how one judge can really change the outcome with one simple stroke of the pen.

Of course, we all know the judging system is not perfect because it is ultimately subjective and not objective. Corps' can't take matters into their own hands, like a baseball team coming back from a two-run deficit in the ninth. Like fans who look at the same shows and see them very differently, so too do the judges -- and they're the ones who ultimately determine placement. I just hope you don't get some rogue judge who feels like he's right and everyone else is wrong once you get to the championships, because that's when it becomes an issue of fairness.

I welcome your comments.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Mike Ferlazzo

[X DM]

I just checked out the recap from the Tupelo, Miss. show last night and saw that the Bluecoats beat the Devils in both brass (17.3 to 16.9) and percussion (17.8 to 17.6), but lost the music caption because the ensemble judge had them down by almost a point (17.7 to 16.9). It doesn't seem to make sense that the 'Coats were rated by two judges as having the best brass and percussion sections -- which no doubt took into consideration the musical accuracy and projection within the ensemble -- and yet were seen to be woefully behind the Devils in musical ensemble. It shows, once again, how one judge can really change the outcome with one simple stroke of the pen.

Of course, we all know the judging system is not perfect because it is ultimately subjective and not objective. Corps' can't take matters into their own hands, like a baseball team coming back from a two-run deficit in the ninth. Like fans who look at the same shows and see them very differently, so too do the judges -- and they're the ones who ultimately determine placement. I just hope you don't get some rogue judge who feels like he's right and everyone else is wrong once you get to the championships, because that's when it becomes an issue of fairness.

I welcome your comments.

It's all subjective. And who's to say that the Music Ensemble Judge didn't get it right, and the other 2 judges wrong ? In that case, the spread between the ' Devils and ' Coats would have been larger.

[Mike Ferlazzo]

It's all subjective. And who's to say that the Music Ensemble Judge didn't get it right, and the other 2 judges wrong ? In that case, the spread between the ' Devils and ' Coats would have been larger.

Indeed, it is all subjective and that's why scores fluctuate over the course of the year.

In this case, my point is that two musical judges saw the Bluecoats as not only being in the same league with the Devils, but slightly better. The third, however, felt that they weren't even close. Three musical judges on the same night reading the same corps quite differently -- and the one who made the boldest stroke changed the whole outcome of the musical caption. I could understand if he had the Devils slightly ahead of the 'Coats, but not down nearly an entire point -- particularly after they won brass and percussion on that same night.

That's all. It just seemed rather odd. I couldn't say who is better or worse because I haven't seen the Devils and the 'Coats head-to-head -- at least, not yet.

I will say, however, that the 'Coats new look and sound reminds me a lot of the Devils. But that's just one man's opinion.

Edited July 17, 2007 by Mike Ferlazzo

[GMichael1230]

I will say, however, that the 'Coats new look and sound reminds me a lot of the Devils. But that's just one man's opinion.

No, no, no !! Its been mine too since I saw them in Allentown, The design of the show, regarding staging, impact points and downtime, the brass, the colorguard integration, even the look, its a Blue Devils type show in every aspect, no doubt about it !

~G~

[xmenjeffb]

I just checked out the recap from the Tupelo, Miss. show last night and saw that the Bluecoats beat the Devils in both brass (17.3 to 16.9) and percussion (17.8 to 17.6), but lost the music caption because the ensemble judge had them down by almost a point (17.7 to 16.9). It doesn't seem to make sense that the 'Coats were rated by two judges as having the best brass and percussion sections -- which no doubt took into consideration the musical accuracy and projection within the ensemble -- and yet were seen to be woefully behind the Devils in musical ensemble. It shows, once again, how one judge can really change the outcome with one simple stroke of the pen.

Of course, we all know the judging system is not perfect because it is ultimately subjective and not objective. Corps' can't take matters into their own hands, like a baseball team coming back from a two-run deficit in the ninth. Like fans who look at the same shows and see them very differently, so too do the judges -- and they're the ones who ultimately determine placement. I just hope you don't get some rogue judge who feels like he's right and everyone else is wrong once you get to the championships, because that's when it becomes an issue of fairness.

I welcome your comments.

The 2 up are on the field and sampling sections and individuals. The other is upstairs concerned with the music ensemble as a whole. Does not seem odd to me . Different reads from different places.

[Tone Quality Matters]

The 2 up are on the field and sampling sections and individuals. The other is upstairs concerned with the music ensemble as a whole. Does not seem odd to me . Different reads from different places.

Differences aren't odd, but the spread is a little long I think.

[vhsmbdm]

The spread is odd, yes. But I think it still comes down to the whole ensemble playing. You can have a fantastic hornline, and you can have a fantastic drumline, but if your hornline and drumline aren't quite playing fantastically together, then your individual scores stay up and your ensemble score stays down.

[Ron Burgendy]

I just checked out the recap from the Tupelo, Miss. show last night and saw that the Bluecoats beat the Devils in both brass (17.3 to 16.9) and percussion (17.8 to 17.6), but lost the music caption because the ensemble judge had them down by almost a point (17.7 to 16.9). It doesn't seem to make sense that the 'Coats were rated by two judges as having the best brass and percussion sections -- which no doubt took into consideration the musical accuracy and projection within the ensemble -- and yet were seen to be woefully behind the Devils in musical ensemble. It shows, once again, how one judge can really change the outcome with one simple stroke of the pen.

Of course, we all know the judging system is not perfect because it is ultimately subjective and not objective. Corps' can't take matters into their own hands, like a baseball team coming back from a two-run deficit in the ninth. Like fans who look at the same shows and see them very differently, so too do the judges -- and they're the ones who ultimately determine placement. I just hope you don't get some rogue judge who feels like he's right and everyone else is wrong once you get to the championships, because that's when it becomes an issue of fairness.

I welcome your comments.

Do not forget that the ensemble music scores focuses mostly on the vertical alignment and comfortableness of the show. Maybe they did have the best brass and percussion does not mean they really locked in on tempo that evening