the next two big innovations

[MelloDisciple]

And to the fellow who suggested trying number 2 and seeing how they felt about it, I just did--it was great!

Show me proof of this feat being accomplished by an individual let alone an ensemble. Oh and according to the OP's idea this tempo shouldn't be an even or odd multiple or subdivision of the musical tempo. Till then there isn't a group in the world that can pull this off.

I am not a skeptic and I'm very pro new ideas. I have also made previous posts claiming to crave thinking of ways to make things possible. If this can be pulled off I would totally be for it. There are so many variables that come with this idea.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

1) What tempo is to be conducted? Musical or visual.

2) If the tempos are truly unrelated then this gives an additional challenge as to when the tempos are to realign. An entire show with two tempos? If that isn't the case and then the two tempos will not realign for quite a long stretch of time. Unless a halt or an extended beat are used there wouldn't be a way to get the feet back in time with the music.

3) Since corps use a central point of reference for time and/or a listening reference there would have to be some other form of guidance. True members can memorize tempos, but they have to learn them at some point.

4) Which tempo is the guard moving and spinning? What is their reference for time?

[asifindnoarta]

Show me proof of this feat being accomplished by an individual let alone an ensemble. Oh and according to the OP's idea this tempo shouldn't be an even or odd multiple or subdivision of the musical tempo. Till then there isn't a group in the world that can pull this off.

I am not a skeptic and I'm very pro new ideas. I have also made previous posts claiming to crave thinking of ways to make things possible. If this can be pulled off I would totally be for it. There are so many variables that come with this idea.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

1) What tempo is to be conducted? Musical or visual.

2) If the tempos are truly unrelated then this gives an additional challenge as to when the tempos are to realign. An entire show with two tempos? If that isn't the case and then the two tempos will not realign for quite a long stretch of time. Unless a halt or an extended beat are used there wouldn't be a way to get the feet back in time with the music.

3) Since corps use a central point of reference for time and/or a listening reference there would have to be some other form of guidance. True members can memorize tempos, but they have to learn them at some point.

4) Which tempo is the guard moving and spinning? What is their reference for time?

Thank you for, first of all understanding my concepts (particularly #2 where a lot of posters still think I'm talking about playing and moving at related tempos, please for those of you who think this has been done before go back and read the topic again so you understand what I'm talking about) and also for thinking about them on a sophisticated level.

to address your issues

1) Visual tempo should be conducted. Its easier to put your feet in time with a specific tempo while letting the music fall out of time rather than playing to the hands while trying to match your feet with the rest of the ensemble. you can't see everyones feet but you can hear their timing so I would suggest intense visual rehearsals where the foot timing is devistatingly ingrained. Then musicians will just have to "feel it" when letting the music slide off the pulse. This can be done. With enough practice the hornline and drumline will eventually just feel it and possess the ability to do it every night. I'd reccomend starting small with maybe just a couple of phrases. Its easier to march faster than you're playing ratehr than the other way around.

2) Line back up at halts for now. Eventually more sophiticated methods of realignment could be utilized.

3) DM for reference for feet. You're just gonna have to "feel" the pulse of the music.

4) Guard moves and spins at the visual tempo. The color guard provides no musical contribution to the performance and their visual contribution should line up with the visual contribution of the rest of the corps.

to prove this can be done... try getting together with a group of your wicked cool friends. Put a met on at say 200 and have everyone clap the pulse. Then have everyone sing happy birthday at a slower tempo. After a couple of reps you WILL be able to sing in time while clapping in a different time.

Improvised drill

1. follow the leader. Have one person go wherever they want and have everyone follow. Set a start and end point and make sure they are the same and the time interval in between could consist of follow the leader snake drill. Maybe you could have several of these lines at once occupying pre-designated areas of the field.

2. displaced step off's. Have several lines in positions in the field with a predetermined path and number of counts. Have one member of each line count off a sep-off whenever he/she wants. You could redetermine the paths of the lines so that two different lines are meant to pass through each other. Since the stepoff's are improvised, the count at which the lines pass through will be different each night. If you determine that the lines will make a direction change at the moment they pass through you could have random direction changes

3. scatter drill, individuals do whatever, already done only it would be different each night unlike most scatters.

if you did any number of combinations of these you could come up with some pretty groovy sections of the show that would be different every night.

[sburstall]

Another innovation will be yard lines that instantly expand and contract sideways to assist drill forms that need to be set up in specific formations that aren't linear. Shoes will have sympathetic magnetic inserts that respond through tactile sensation to the metallic flakes in the flexible material used to create these yard lines.

Fields with artificial turf/built in lights, that could happen...and that would be a mess, right up there with the mass pile-up due to the improvised drills (that will make the '84 Garfield Cadets pile-up pale in comparison).

Also, the use of mass hypnosis will allow a stadium full of fans to experience the same show no matter what the corps on the field is doing. And when a corps really is sensing what each other is doing improv-wise, the sensation in the fans' cerebral cortex will be akin to the effect of eating Mentos and drinking cola.

You mean that's not happening now? I swear that's been going on for at least the last decade.

With hard work and government funding, we could have the above ready to go by 2010, but only if people believe in it enough. Otherwise, we won't get past the geo-thermal requirements, not to mention the initial investment in magnetic levitation.

Great, corps will now have to have Congressional approval for being renamed.

The next big innovation is the return to the arrangement of music that will be close to the original composition except modified a bit for time issues. This will cause a mass influx of fans because of the return to entertaining shows. The trad vs. evo arguements would end because of this.

[asifindnoarta]

Exactly. Check out SCV's Young Person's guide in 73, 74 or 81. Been there, done that.

This is not what I am talking to. Please please please understand that SCV has NEVER marched at one tempo and played at a different UNRELATED tempo. You are wrong, no one has been there or done anything close to what I am suggesting. Read my topic post again. thank you

[sburstall]

This is not what I am talking to. Please please please understand that SCV has NEVER marched at one tempo and played at a different UNRELATED tempo. You are wrong, no one has been there or done anything close to what I am suggesting. Read my topic post again. thank you

Different meters, yes. Unrelated tempos, heck no. I'd like to see someone march a unrelated tempo to a piece. Human nature would have us revert to the original tempo, or double or half tempo. Either way, it's a very uncomfortable and unnatural thing to do.

[derek334]

This is not what I am talking to. Please please please understand that SCV has NEVER marched at one tempo and played at a different UNRELATED tempo. You are wrong, no one has been there or done anything close to what I am suggesting. Read my topic post again. thank you

The idea is so innovative. It would alter forever the course of DCI. Therefore, I say down with improvised marching. In fact, I might just go and get me some shirts printed up with that exact slogan, DOWN WITH IMPROVISED "DRILL" and get all my frothy-mouthed die-hard DCI traditionalist friends to wear them to future shows.

Oh wait, I have no friends...

Dang.

[scottgordon]

Regarding the OP's original suggestions:

#1 will never happen - the reason has nothing to do with whether it would work. The reason is that corps is evolving towards the more and more rehearsed, more and more centered around the design staff, and less and less leeway is given to the members. Look at how the role of DM has changed. There's no way a drumcorps staff would relinquish that amount of control. Plus, they couldn't bear the variability in their judging scores as they wouldn't have full control over the elements of the performance(s) night to night.

#2 might, although it's more likely to be a short-lived gimmick. HOWEVER, once they allow corps members to carry earbuds with an entire show of pre-programmed Dr.Beat piped in independently for each member, this idea would become a whole lot easier. For any of you that have ever heard the music of Conlin Nancarrow, you know this is possible.

Note: some might argue that certain corps are already doing #2 on the field

Personally, I think we are going to see a whole bunch of new gimmicks instead of real innovation. The OP's suggestions are examples of real innovation - another example that I've thought about for years would be where every member had to memorize an entirely unique drill with nobody to cue off of at any time - this would allow for designs that produce a rapidly changing series of forms or pictures. I don't know if I'm describing this adequately, but I've seen a few corps do this for very short segments, but never for entire minutes or at high speed.

Unfortunately, I think what is more likely to happen, is that we'll see more and more gimmicks:

- laser lights

- woodwinds and other instruments

- poetry

- electronic sound effects

- entire segments without music but with other sounds

- pre-sequenced electronic instruments

- more sound men

- amplified horns

- marching electronic instruments

- electronic alteration and/or distortion of instruments

- powered props that can do things on their own

- speakers in the upper deck for surround sound

- use of artificial wind, or water, or fire

- video projection

We will be told that these are innovation, but in fact they would all be easy. That's why they are more likely to happen. Real innovation is hard.

[danielray]

If the intent is to have something that has the potential to create a radically different impression from one night to the next, improvisation is not the most effective way to accomplish this idea. The variation in quality and absolute unpredictability doesn't fit the model of drum corps. It also has the potential to be a bit physically risky for performers as well as equipment.

One way to accomplish a similar effect...

Create a production that is divided into blocks. Each of these blocks has the same starting/ending or transitional set. Additionally, each block has complimentary musical transitions harmonically (could even be halted and silent).

Mix and match various blocks to create a completely different program. There is no such thing as a fixed opener, production number, closer, etc.

Night #1:

A B C D

Night #2:

C A D B

Night #3:

D C B A

... and so on.

This is an example of practical and rational experimentation that is more appropriate to the model of drum corps.

To jump back to the topic of narration again... since I was unfairly criticizing the topic, without stepping up and offering anything (taking my own advice and not being critical of anything that I cannot offer a suggestion to). Well, here goes...

Narration, to date, has been overused and done in a way that does not begin to explore the potential of the concept. I can equate this to the early 80's when Sequential released the Prophet 600, Yamaha released the DX-7, and Roland released the Juno 106. Suddenly midi capable synthesizers affordable enough to be in the hands of every single garage band out there. As a result, everyone was using these just because they suddenly could, not because it was the absolute best option.

In addition, it was used for melody and chorus, rather than comped rhythms or texture. This is is the essential distinction.

Contemporary music became synth-heavy, unbalanced novelty.

Narration/voice is currently being used in drum corps as a focal point, something emphasized, rather than just another integrated colour or texture. It is not an integral or essential part of the ensemble, but an optional layer, unattached, resting on the surface of the rest of the program.

If this is used in a way that is absolutely integrated, used for rhythm, colour, accent or texture... then it matures into something connected and essential to the program.

Some examples off the top of my head:

The composer Scott Johnson (not that one) used a lot voice in his work. Most were samples, spliced on tape, played back with an ensemble of live accoustic or electronic instruments.

His opera Patty Hearst is an excellent example of how voice could be integrated into the mix to create something more interesting than it would be were it left out.

Here are a couple of clips (note to mods, these are links to legal previews, authorized by the artist).

From Patty Hearst, check out:

- Mom Dad

- Dad Mom

Those are only snips.... listen to the entire opera... great stuff.

Also, check out one of his other projects John Somebody

- John Somebody

- John Somebody (Involuntary Song #1)

- John Somebody (Involuntary Song #3)

Anyway, so, something a bit more tangible, rather than just straight criticism.

[Russellrks]

Show me proof of this feat being accomplished by an individual let alone an ensemble. Oh and according to the OP's idea this tempo shouldn't be an even or odd multiple or subdivision of the musical tempo. Till then there isn't a group in the world that can pull this off.

I am not a skeptic and I'm very pro new ideas. I have also made previous posts claiming to crave thinking of ways to make things possible. If this can be pulled off I would totally be for it. There are so many variables that come with this idea.

Here are a few off the top of my head:

1) What tempo is to be conducted? Musical or visual.

2) If the tempos are truly unrelated then this gives an additional challenge as to when the tempos are to realign. An entire show with two tempos? If that isn't the case and then the two tempos will not realign for quite a long stretch of time. Unless a halt or an extended beat are used there wouldn't be a way to get the feet back in time with the music.

3) Since corps use a central point of reference for time and/or a listening reference there would have to be some other form of guidance. True members can memorize tempos, but they have to learn them at some point.

4) Which tempo is the guard moving and spinning? What is their reference for time?

I think he was referring to a different kind of #2, if you think about it for a second.

[stifled4mallettechnique]

The simple fact that this thread has been discussed beyond quoting the original post and responding with a " :lolhit: " proves that this activity is indeed doomed. THIS I believe.