I ask DCI

[karl E. Hungus]

and this is the can of worms that ive been waiting for.

narriation is not the only added piece to drumcorps shows that could bear to have its own judging. my other gripe is with acted parts. for instance in 2005, the cadets as well as madison had parts that were clearly actor/charicter oriented, how can these be judged?

also there is the question of props... do they go with the visual scores? what if a prop is set into a set that is clearly wrong or a mistake? how is that assessed?

i thing its definitely one of the great things about drumcorps is that your watching and hearing far more than just music and drill... but your also scoring it... as music and drill... or your not... the boundries are pretty blurry, i dont think anybody knows half the time... and thats F'n lame.

[Blueemrld8]

narriation is not the only added piece to drumcorps shows that could bear to have its own judging. my other gripe is with acted parts. for instance in 2005, the cadets as well as madison had parts that were clearly actor/charicter oriented, how can these be judged?

Amazing point! I have been wondering this myslef for a while. Esp. about back drops and other stationary props. As far as character oriented, im not sure i understand. U mean as in how well they play out thier character (corp. narration) or do u mean something like story as it pertains to color gaurd?

[Top Cat]

Thank you all for forwarding contact information. I will send this concern to DCI. I will post there response, if any, on this forum.

You may also want to contact Gene Monterastlli. He has acted as the Rules Congress moderator for the last couple of sessions. If anything he will direct you to the correct form to fill out for a rules change.

[Peel Paint]

I submit to you that narration is not music. Therefore, it should not be judged under G.E. music.

Singing

Lyrical poetry that employs the use of strictly timed meter a.k.a. rap

Drumspeak

these are forms of music caused by the human voice that should be judged as "music"

talking is not music

As I suggested in Reply 13, you cannot create a designated "narration" or "voice" caption without in effect mandating the use of narration. Every corps would have to use it in order to earn the points in the caption. Don't go there! If you don't like incorporating narration into GE Music, then find another existing caption where you think it fits better-- I would suggest there is no such caption-- or propose renaming an existing caption, e.g. make GE Music --> GE Sound, and add it to that caption, and then you can put it in conditionally... If narration is used... If a sound system is used... If electronics are used... that way, these design options don't have to be used to earn points under the caption. If they're not used, credit is neither earned nor forgone.

[asifindnoarta]

As I suggested in Reply 13, you cannot create a designated "narration" or "voice" caption without in effect mandating the use of narration. Every corps would have to use it in order to earn the points in the caption. Don't go there! If you don't like incorporating narration into GE Music, then find another existing caption where you think it fits better-- I would suggest there is no such caption-- or propose renaming an existing caption, e.g. make GE Music --> GE Sound, and add it to that caption, and then you can put it in conditionally... If narration is used... If a sound system is used... If electronics are used... that way, these design options don't have to be used to earn points under the caption. If they're not used, credit is neither earned nor forgone.

I like where you're going with this. I think conditionals would work well in this case, however may jeapordize the integrity and consistancy of the rest of the rubric. Imagine, if there is marching in the program. But I do think conditionals may have to be used in order to make this work so I agree with you there.

I also really like where you're going with renaming G.E. Music to G.E. Sound. I think this term would be more appropriate if evaluations of narration are to be included in this caption.

Now here's one other thing. You show me a green-shirt who knows anything about acting or oration. Personally I think its a little irresponsible to say "yes, we will allow you to speak during a drum corps show, and we'll judge it too, but our ajudicators don't have any experience" that's just not fair.

[KingJoeVII]

I submit to you that narration is not music. Therefore, it should not be judged under G.E. music.

Singing

Lyrical poetry that employs the use of strictly timed meter a.k.a. rap

Drumspeak

these are forms of music caused by the human voice that should be judged as "music"

talking is not music

well thats certainly one way to look upon it...I know lots of listeners and composers who would disagree with you on this. What is for certain is that DCI should not be in the business of splitting hairs when it comes to design and creativity (GE MUSIC JUDGE:"Oh, that wasnt spoken in enough of a cadence to qualify as music, I guess I can't listen to that.")

As I suggested in Reply 13, you cannot create a designated "narration" or "voice" caption without in effect mandating the use of narration. Every corps would have to use it in order to earn the points in the caption. Don't go there! If you don't like incorporating narration into GE Music, then find another existing caption where you think it fits better-- I would suggest there is no such caption-- or propose renaming an existing caption, e.g. make GE Music --> GE Sound, and add it to that caption, and then you can put it in conditionally... If narration is used... If a sound system is used... If electronics are used... that way, these design options don't have to be used to earn points under the caption. If they're not used, credit is neither earned nor forgone.

well it is obvious that narration cannot be its own caption and more than "cowbell" can...the simplest solution is to just rewrite to standards for GE music and Ensemble music to include evaluation of spoken parts.

Edited August 15, 2007 by KingJoeVII

[Liam]

I like where you're going with this. I think conditionals would work well in this case, however may jeapordize the integrity and consistancy of the rest of the rubric.

How so? There are lots of examples of this already:

Not every corps has a cymbal line, but for the ones that do, it is judged as part of percussion battery.

Not every corps uses a drum set, but for the ones that do, it is judged as part of percussion pit

Not every corps uses the same guard equipment, etc, etc, etc

The issue here is that it is unclear (at least to us, the great unwashed) where this specific "conditional" is captured.

[KingJoeVII]

Now here's one other thing. You show me a green-shirt who knows anything about acting or oration. Personally I think its a little irresponsible to say "yes, we will allow you to speak during a drum corps show, and we'll judge it too, but our ajudicators don't have any experience" that's just not fair.

well they arent performing 5 act operas on the field (at least not yet :P )...how much training would really be necessary to say things like "I can't understand what he is saying at this part", or "the narration sounds mechanical", or something else like that? We're talking (no pun intended) about an 11 1/2 minute show where people march around a field playing instruments and sometimes maybe saying something into a microphone...its not opera night at the MET.

plus many adjudicators are music educators and therefore have some experience with things like chorus and possibly diction. Surely even the most inept trained musician can distinguish between well executed and poorly executed vocal parts.

[asifindnoarta]

well it is obvious that narration cannot be its own caption and more than "cowbell" can...the simplest solution is to just rewrite to standards for GE music and Ensemble music to include evaluation of spoken parts.

Fair enough, but what about the technical execcution of spoken lines? It is not the place of the G.E. Music, or Ensemble Music judge to evaluate (and reflect with a number) the technical proficiency of the musicians. That is the job of the music performance judge. So would the G.E. Music judge also evaluate the quality of narration in addition to its contribution to the overall effect.

What I want to know is, where do corps get/loose points for good/bad acting?

[asifindnoarta]

well they arent performing 5 act operas on the field (at least not yet :P )...how much training would really be necessary to say things like "I can't understand what he is saying at this part", or "the narration sounds mechanical", or something else like that? We're talking (no pun intended) about an 11 1/2 minute show where people march around a field playing instruments and sometimes maybe saying something into a microphone...its not opera night at the MET.

plus many adjudicators are music educators and therefore have some experience with things like chorus and possibly diction. Surely even the most inept trained musician can distinguish between well executed and poorly executed vocal parts.

I do think you're underplaying the importance of narration that is going on in drum corps shows right now. One particular drum corps this year had a huge amount of narration proportionally speaking. It was obviously a big part of the program for which there is no clear way of evaluating how that part of the program was performed.