Just a thought...

[Sayre Kulp]

I had an interesting though when I was reading over current rule changes and then the never-ending complaints about how the "rich get richer" and such. We're sort of perpetuating that movement, aren't we? Think about it: small corps are disappearing. So what do we do? Allow the bigger corps to be BIGGER still!!! Equipment costs too much. This forces smaller corps to close their door, some corps go belly-up with debts, and those that have the edge on the membership market are forced to increase their tuition to ridiculous levels. Some other corps cannot afford to attend any shows because all the smaller shows are drying up in favor of enormous Super Regionals. So why are we doing this? It doesn't bode well for a sustainable product. Sure, we'll see the Top 6 duking it out and putting out some amazing presentations. However, smaller corps will continue to disappear and the mid-field corps will get stretched further away from the top corps until they too become small corps. Once they go away, the larger corps will have a seriously hard time trying to shoulder up the activity by themselves. Participants now are primarily those with money. I think they'd have to be when you consider that the activity will not only keep you from working a Summer job but also cost you over $2,000 by the end. But as the price of participation continues to rise, expect to see the activity start to dwindle a bit. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not a doomsday forecaster and I'm not expecting these things to happen over night. But they will happen. They've BEEN happening for the past 25 years. Just for the sake of illustration, let's take a look at a few key hot-note items from recent years: (please do not take this post as an argument about these items)

* Switch from G to Bb.

I have to admit, at first I was totally against it. I hated the idea of changing one of the elements that made drum corps what it was. Some say it changes the sound, or the volume, or the tone quality. Personally, I feel if you are a true musician, you can perform on any quality instrument. The fact is, this is a smart move that will help reduce costs and improve the equipment that members will be using. Financing, maintaining, selling and replacing instruments are all much easier when the instruments cater to a mainstream target.

* Addition of electronics.

Not a smart move. Sure there are some enhancements that electronics can offer, however I get really tired of seeing corps begging for every last cent I have because gas prices are going up and they can't afford to stay competitive. Give me a break! Sell your mixing boards, microphones and amplifiers and then we'll talk. These items weren't needed to create stunning shows in the past. They're certainly not necessary now! This is a prime example of the activity hurting itself.

* Increase to 150 members.

Another idea that sounds great on paper, but I think will continue to hurt that activity as a whole. We always hear about the "rich getting richer", so why are we giving them more to hold over the smaller corps? I know this won't effect EVERY small corps. In fact, some are reporting great opening turnouts. But I think we can make drum corps more competitive if we make everyone one class and impose stricter limits on corps membership. The more freedom that is given, the more we will see the upper echelon corps PUSHING those boundaries! Try this on for size: one competitive class for the circuit. Maximum membership for ALL corps somewhere around 90. How would this impact the activity? Here's what I see: a more even distribution of members among all corps. Corps like the Velvet Knights could really stand a chance against the Vanguard if they had a level playing field. Talent would be more evenly distributed amongst the corps if potential members knew they had an equal chance of winning, regardless of where they marched. You may see many more kids staying local and marching with their home-town corps, because they know it would be a good use of their time and talents. They will be able to do this when more corps start coming out of the woodwork because they have a circuit they can build a corps and enter into with a good chance of moderate success. Smaller local shows are more likely to be successful, because no matter what corps come to the shows, there will some serious competition. I believe a simple change like this could add many new corps, and cut the cost of marching SIGNIFICANTLY!!! Think how much less you'd be spending to tour if you weren't shelling out $400 a pop for coast-to-coast flights to Winter camps!!! Corps wouldn't require as much infrastructure to provide for their members. One less bus, a bit less equipment, less meals to prepare can all reduce costs DRAMATICALLY!!!

In summary, to make drum corps more competitive, less expensive, more local, and increase growth:

* Go Bb when you can afford to do so.

* Sell your electronics.

* Make corps smaller, not larger.

* Embrace new corps.

* Embrace local shows.

I think that about covers it. Fell free to discuss, but let's please stick to offering constructive criticism and not flaming. Let's also try not to beat the dead horses in this thread. I just want to get some thoughts and ideas.

[Slow Adam]

* Go Bb when you can afford to do so.

* Sell your electronics.

* Make corps smaller, not larger.

* Embrace new corps.

* Embrace local shows.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

[JamMan]

* Go Bb when you can afford to do so.

* Sell your electronics.

* Make corps smaller, not larger.

* Embrace new corps.

* Embrace local shows.

I believe there's and old saying that goes "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

Electronics do for the pit what Bb did for horns: Make them sound infinitely better. I've played with amps and without amps over the years, and I love the amps. Not having to pound and produce awful tone quality is awesome.

Bigger corps only mean less people will take the summer off because they didn't make one.

[HoltonH178]

Which corps do we mean by these "smaller corps"? Do we mean 17-Pioneer? Do we mean open class?

Drum corps is the tip of the iceberg as far as marching is concerned. There are scholastic winter percussion programs, winter guard programs, and competitive marching bands which teach the exact same things that drum corps do, and continue to be successful.

The lower end of the drum corps spectrum has largely been replaced by these groups, and the changes that are being made reflect drum corps' move to being an educationally and musically respected "big league."

Just because you can't see outside of DCI doesn't mean that the corps directors and administrators do not...

EDIT: Woo! 200! it only took me 3 and a half years...

Edited November 23, 2007 by HoltonH178

[Tekneek]

Just because you can't see outside of DCI doesn't mean that the corps directors and administrators do not...

Just curious, do you think these other things have as strong of an alumni following as DCI and the drum corps activity in general does?

Edited November 23, 2007 by Tekneek

[HoltonH178]

Just curious, do you think these other things have as strong of an alumni following as DCI and the drum corps activity in general does?

Well, I would say it's hard to directly compare the two, considering how long drum corps has been around, compared to really successful BOA and WGI programs, which I would say have only really taken off in the last 10-15 years...

But this is an interesting point, and it does deserve some discussion. I know that the programs I was in as a marcher had a HUGE alumni following--the Facebook alumni group, for instance, has over 200 members in it. Alumni performed in alumni bands at different events, were often on staff and at competitions after having graduated, and were generally a well-known presence. Every year, usually at least 5-10 graduates would go on to march corps from the high school programs, whether in guard, percussion, or brass.

I might argue that the league separation encourages alumni support for the lower groups--for example, I will always have my marching band alumnus and my drum corps. Someone who marches Jersey Surf and then The Cadets may not feel the same way.

So I suppose to answer your question a little more succinctly, I believe they have the potential to, but do not as of yet, due to their young age. It's like comparing Crown's alumni base to the Boston Crusaders'.

[Tekneek]

I think competitive winter programs (aka "indoor shows) go back at least 15-17 years. From a non-scientific personal-experience point of view, I know people that marched corps in the early 90s and winter programs, who care about drum corps still to this day but barely know that winter competitive programs even still exist. It just never held them the same way.

To be honest, I don't know anybody that is not connected to a participant, on staff with a participating unit, or teaching some potential participants, that even attends these events. I stopped following marching band once my sister moved on from it and had stopped being on staff for any before that. It still matters to me how well Spirit does each summer, but most years I don't even think about marching bands I have been a part of.

[dbc03]

* Sell your electronics.

For a corps trying to break into the business it is much cheaper to have one marimba micced than 2 marimbas so that you can hear the sound. With amps you can do more with less equipment.

* Make corps smaller, not larger.

Fewer people means fewer people paying tour fees. Lets assume that a corps travels 12,000 miles during the summer. Assuming a bus gets 10 mpg you are saving about $3600, or the tour fees of 2 people. But you are losing 45 members, or about $81,000.

Also, I really don't think size has as much to do with competitive standing as you seem to think.

Every corps having 90 members is not going to make the competitive field any more even than it is now. At the very least the top 12 are maxing out the number of members but the vast majority of championships are still won by 3 corps.

* Embrace new corps.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If by embrace other corps you mean handicap the current corps with restrictions then I disagree.

* Embrace local shows.

What constitutes a local show? Last I checked there were what I consider to be local shows almost every day of the week during the summer. Yes there are regionals, but the vast majority of the shows are not regoinals.

[HoltonH178]

I think competitive winter programs (aka "indoor shows) go back at least 15-17 years. From a non-scientific personal-experience point of view, I know people that marched corps in the early 90s and winter programs, who care about drum corps still to this day but barely know that winter competitive programs even still exist. It just never held them the same way.

To be honest, I don't know anybody that is not connected to a participant, on staff with a participating unit, or teaching some potential participants, that even attends these events. I stopped following marching band once my sister moved on from it and had stopped being on staff for any before that. It still matters to me how well Spirit does each summer, but most years I don't even think about marching bands I have been a part of.

Well, I have two counterpoints to this. The first is the generational gap. Obviously, winter programs have grown since the day when they were first started, and I'm sure this helps to attract more alumni involvement, so I think that people on their way out of performing with a certain unit will feel differently about it than those who left 15-or-so years ago when it was just getting off the ground. I actually know a good amount of people who actively follow WGI that do not participate or teach, and attend events, etc. But I'm also a music ed major and a CMM, so take that for what it's worth.

The second point is that the whole 'anyone unconnected to a participant, not on staff with a participating unit, or not teaching some potential participants, does not attend' thing exists for the lower end of DCI, too. Open Class corps do not perform for the same crowds that World Class performs for, and I think this is because DCI World Class sets standards in the marching world. Those who are looking in from the outside will obviously want to experience the best, those who are members of marching bands and winter groups go to see the standard of excellence in their activity, family and friends go to see their loved ones in larger amounts because it's a "bigger deal"...I could go on and on. But just because it doesn't produce the same audiences as World Class Finalists doesn't mean that it is lesser than drum corps in general.

I still follow my HS marching band, and have for every season since I graduated. They just got 7th at BOA Grand National Finals this year. However, I was taught by and marched a show designed by people who had been on staff for Cadets, Bluecoats, Cavaliers, Glassmen...I rehearsed 27 hours a week and performed in front of an audience of 30,000 at BOA finals. I have a feeling that if more band programs offered these kinds of experiences to their members, they would have more alumni involvement. Fortunately, that's the direction we're headed :).

[Tekneek]

I rehearsed 27 hours a week and performed in front of an audience of 30,000 at BOA finals.

Did that audience have a higher or lower percentage of alumni than DCI Finals might usually have?