danny46815 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Hello, I made a similar topic over n the Blue Devils' forum and I figured it couldn't hurt to put it here too. I'm a mellophone player and I marched 2007 Glassmen. I took this summer off because I wanted to take horn lessons all summer and I am going to the International Horn Symposium in a week. I'm planning on auditioning for Phantom Regiment this coming fall and I have some musical concerns. I am very good at all types of lyrical and slurring exercises and my articulation is very good when I have to use a fast single tongue. My biggest problem is that I can't double tongue. I've looked at audition materials from other corps (SCV, Glassmen, and some BD stuff) and I haven't seen any double tonguing stuff for auditions there, but I've never seen any Phantom stuff. I've been working quite hard on double tonguing. I can say the syllables and all that without the instrument or mouthpiece but when I put it all together my tongue falls apart, and I'm worried that not being able to double tongue is going to stop me from making Phantom I'd love some advice on double tonguing. If anyone has marched Phantom recently and knows what the auditions are like that would be wonderful. Anything else anyone thinks I should know would be wonderful. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaxmanSilver Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I've never auditioned for PR, but I would think the only double tonguing you would encounter would be in an etude you were using to audition and/or an exercise that would be taught to the hornline during the course of a camp weekend. Pick the syllable (doo-goo, tu-ku, ta-ka, [insert others here]) that works best for you and practice saying it... A LOT. I personally like the doo-goo syllable. It's smoother than others I have tried and less harsh sounding to the ears when you're actually playing through the horn. Also practice it on your horn everyday, even it's just five minutes. This is one of those things that just has to be incorporated in your daily routine. Umm... try saying doo doo doo doo/ goo goo goo goo/ goo-doo goo-doo goo-doo goo-doo/ doo-goo doo-goo doo-goo doo-goo... A LOT. Also do your normal single tonguing exercises with the back of your tongue instead of the front tip. That will strengthen the back of your tongue, which is where most people encounter problems with the clarity and evenness of their double tonguing. Start in the middle of your comfortable range and work up the range and down the range. And don't forget to use your metronome. Start slow and work methodically to achieve an uncompromisingly even tongue stroke. You may encounter set backs, but just keep plugging away. Multiple tonguing is great to work on at the end of a practice session when you have no chops left. Do scale and different chromatic patterns as well. Mix it up and vary your exercises too so that they do not become monotonous. It's tough at first, but you'll get the hang of it soon enough. Do these things daily and you should be in good shape when auditions come around next year. That's all the stuff I do. Hopefully it will be helpful to you. Good luck and I hope you make PR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaxmanSilver Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Oh, and don't forget about making the right vowel shapes inside your mouth and throat that correspond to the register in which you're playing. And don't stop the air either. Your tongue should ride on the current of air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-horns Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 SaxmanSilver has some good advice. Something that came to my mind is that you may be over-thinking this. Relax and you may find instant improvement. You know what to do and how to do it, just let it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martybucs Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 One double tonguing exercise that is fun, would be playing a song with a lot of it, that is fun to play. Search YouTube for "Bugler's Holiday" and listen to some of those versions. It's kind of a fun song to play and perhaps the easiest double tonguing song there is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToferVis Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 my biggest mistake when learning double tonguing was that sub conciously backed off on my air (actually i think it was more of retaining it in the back of my throat. That was why i could say it, buzz it, but not put it on the horn. Once i focused on that, it all came together. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coathope Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Just to put it out there, the audition packet from Phantom does have a double tonguing section. You can tell they require it via videos on a certain popular site. They do it in their warm ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny46815 Posted July 14, 2008 Author Share Posted July 14, 2008 When it comes to saying taka, daga, tuku, etc. I can say those pretty well by themselves. When I'm pushing the air through though I can't get my tongue to do it anymore. I was talking to a friend of mine about who can double tongue and he suggested saying ta-da-doo-dee and it seems to work pretty nicely. Has anyone else heard of doing it like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaxmanSilver Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I've never those syllables used in combination together, but it seems reminiscent of the "diddle" tonguing that I've heard used by some jazzers. Do what works best for you daily and you'll succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Pirtle Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I've never those syllables used in combination together, but it seems reminiscent of the "diddle" tonguing that I've heard used by some jazzers. Do what works best for you daily and you'll succeed. You should check out the mellocast (Episode 51). It addresses articulation and double tonguing in this episode. Mellocast -- See Episode 51 My advice is to start very slowly (quarter notes at around 80 bpm) on a middle-range (comfortable) note(s) and play groups of eight (very legato). Use your best sound. Alternate with single tonguing (to serve as your aural model) and work toward getting your double tonguing to sound the same as your single tonguing. It will sound pretty bad at first. Actually, it will sound really bad at first, but stick with it. Doing this just a few minutes a day will result in some improvement within a few weeks. As you get more comfortable, slowly increase the range of notes (in both directions) and the tempo. Then start adding scale figures. You can also isolate the "k" in these exercises. Instead of alternating between "tu" and "ku" or "Dah" and "Kah," just use your "Kah" syllable. Focus on using your best, relaxed air and smooth out the syllable to get the best legato articulation. Some of the pros don't like isolating the "ku," but it has helped me immensely. Don't neglect the triple tonguing. You could use this in your aresnal too! I think you'll find (like I did last year), that spending a little time on articulation makes your overall musicality much better. It also makes your playing much more efficient and less tiring. Which is a great thing, especially if your running while you're playing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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